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Author Topic: Wanted – Working Transmitters for TEMAC Student Training Purposes  (Read 203 times)

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Offline bweaver

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Donations of working transmitters would be much appreciated.

Let me explain…  Once again we have transmitter buddy box and safe beginner mode issues dogging student-training sessions. 

Two new students have been out with new transmitters and Apprentice aircraft.  In each case we are having difficulties with the transmitters. 

In one instance we have not been successful in being able to change the transmitter’s mode of operation from ‘beginner’ to ‘experienced mode’.  The transmitter will only work in ‘beginner mode’. 

In the other instance, the transmitter is capable of operating in ‘experienced mode', but incapable of making a buddy box connection using a the training cable link. 

With these two students we are able to overcome this barrier to flight training by using donated functional transmitters we had obtained last year.  The student's new Apprentice aircraft fly fine, but we have to use two of the club’s transmitters in each instance to facilitate the student’s flight training.  Should more students attend and have similar technical difficulties and our current supply of transmitters are in use, then some of the students haveto miss out until the radios become available. 

Having explained that; if you happen to have a working transmitter, preferably with a model memory function  (even better with wireless master buddy training capabilities), and you have no longer a use for it, a donation made to the club’s flight training program would be very much appreciated.

Hopefully the problems being experienced with these two new student transmitters can be overcome in the near future, thus reducing the necessity to use two club transmitters each time one of these students takes to the air with an instructor.  Without the availability of the donated club transmitters at this time, these two students wouldn’t be flying.

Help us make the best use of the limited instruction time we have set aside on Wednesdays to ensure the students are flying, especially in instances when they are experiencing difficulties with their own equipment, through no fault of their own. 

Everyone can appreciate that nothing is more discouraging than starting in a new hobby and having complications that prevent you from participating in it.  To put it simply - imagine yourself showing up at the field with your equipment and find yourself grounded for one reason or other due to technical issues that can't be overcome at the time. Sit and watch, or go home.

It would be much appreciated if you can help.  Your generosity can really make the difference. 

Or, alternatively perhaps you have the knowhow to help us solve technical problems of this nature and join our flight instruction team.



Offline SeeFernando

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Happy to donate the DXe that came with my Apprentice! I can drop it off this weekend possibly, Sunday?
-Chris

Offline msatin

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I received the programming cable for my DXe, and I believe I was able to load the Apprentice specific configuration.
I will be at the field tomorrow and with any luck this will solve the problem.
If not, then perhaps I can duplicate a config from a working DXe. Regardless, I will bring my laptop and cable as well.

Offline bweaver

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That's great Chris and Mark.

I will be at the field in the morning with Frank, but not likely to arrive until ten-ish.

Offline AndyC

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Bruce,

I have a DX5e that I can donate.

Andy

Offline bweaver

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Thank you Andy!

Offline Richard_RC_Guy

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Hi Bruce and the rest of the students and training crew:

The good news is that there is a potential *fix* for DXe buddy boxing issues (see several links below). Supposedly you can buddy box two DXe's together. The *key* idea is that channel 6 direction must be the *same* on both the master and slave TX's (i.e., both forward or both reverse).

I have the programming cables and will download the programming software onto my laptop. I'm going to try programming my DXe to see if I can do the firmware update, etc. and see if I can buddy box the new DXe with an older DX5e. Will let everyone know how it works out.

Oscar posted a fix and video for DXe binding and buddy box issues way back in July 2017.
http://temac.ca/smf/index.php?topic=6224.0

I also found a recent link for fixing DXe buddy box issues on rcgroups. Instructions are from eFlite/Spektrum support.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41494681&postcount=4

This is the full thread link.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3267047-Apprentice-has-no-down-elevator-in-trainer-mode

Regards,

Richard B.
--

Offline bweaver

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Thanks Richard.

Your help will be greatly appreciated, if we can get a fix for both of these radio problems which appear to be somewhat more than just a buddy cable  connection matter. 

In one instance we have not been successful in being able to change the transmitter’s mode of operation from ‘beginner’ to ‘experienced mode’.  The transmitter will only work in ‘beginner mode’.  This is problem is experienced with just one transmitter, without even attempting to make the buddy connection.
In the other instance, the transmitter is capable of operating in ‘experienced mode', but incapable of making a buddy box connection using a the training cable link. When the buddy cable is connected between master and slave, there is absolutely nothing happening with the slave.)

Offline Oscar

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You get to beginner mode (SAFE ON) because the BIND button in DXe has 3 functions. 

1) Binding
2) Give control to the student when buddy box
3) Turn SAFE ON

You need to programme the DXe so that SAFE assigns to another button. 



Offline Richard_RC_Guy

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Hello OSCAR:
You get to beginner mode (SAFE ON) because the BIND button in DXe has 3 functions. 

1) Binding
2) Give control to the student when buddy box
3) Turn SAFE ON

You need to programme the DXe so that SAFE assigns to another button.

The *fix* I found for the DXe is the following (which required the programming App from Spektrum for laptops). Here is the stuff for Apprentice S15e using a DXe and DX5e connected with a Trainer Cable.

For DXe
1) Update firmware to version 1.6 (latest one) because mine was set to V1.3
2) Set channel 6 (AUX1) so that it is *reversed* and activated by the Trainer button (also called BIND button). All other channels are *normal*.
3) Under *Trainer* option, select “Programmable Master” and make sure all available channels are selected with “Slave”.

For DX5e set all channel servo directions as *normal* (all slide switches are down). There is nothing else to program.

The term *master* means the transmitter used by the the *instructor*, while *slave* means the TX used by the *student*. I tried the DXe as the master and DX5e as the slave and vice versa (DX5e as master) and both configurations worked as expected.

So pick an option:

OPTION 1 (DXe is the master/instructor TX).
- Bind the DXe to the Apprentice.
- check that all features work as expected on a SINGLE transmitter setup (I.e. take it for a test flight).
- for buddy boxing, plug the trainer cord into the powered on DXe.
- make sure the DX5e (Student) is powered off and plug the cable into the DX5e (the slave does not have to be bound to the Apprentice)
- hold the Trainer button down on the DXe which turns over control to the DX5e and check out the controls.

OPTION 2 (DX5e is the master/instructor TX).
- Bind the DX5e to the Apprentice.
- check that all features work as expected on a SINGLE transmitter setup (I.e. take it for a test flight).
- for buddy boxing, plug the trainer cord into the powered on DX5e.
- make sure the DXe (Student) is powered off and plug the cable into the DXe.
- hold the Trainer button/switch down on the DX5e which turns over control to the DXe and check out the controls.

Here are the features you get on both transmitters/setups. NOTE: there is no serious conflict in the operation of the Bind/Panic/Trainer Switch.

Master transmitter. The instructor can:

1) Set the flight mode using the 3 position FM switch but the student can switch it back to whatever they want.
0=SAFE ON air Beginner mode with automatic wing leveling etc.
1=INTERMEDIATE mode which is a milder form of SAFE which allows steeper turns and climbs but still automatically limits your bank and climb angles.
2=EXPERT mode. No SAFE - only AS3X is on (actually AS3X is on for all modes and cannot be shut off completely).

2) The instructor can push the Trainer button/switch which turns over control to the student. Instructor does not have PANIC mode.

Here’s the STUDENT features on the slave TX when the instructor turns over control to the student:
1) Student can set the flight mode using their FM switch. It is best to set it on FM=2 EXPERT mode with SAFE completely off.
2) Student can press Trainer/Panic button to “blip” SAFE ON for emergency recovery, etc.

Other Transmitter pairings:
1) Other TX’s like the DX6, DX6i, DX7, etc. and various different *generations* can be used if channel 6 is properly set and the proper buttons selected for flight mode (FM), and TRAINER/PANIC. See the Apprentice manual for directions on how to setup other TX’s
2) Some TX’s like the DX7 are tricky because of the “s” and “i” versions where the channel 6 reversals are different.

In Summary:
1) The DXe was set up as a MASTER but works fine as a SLAVE with no changes required. I think plugging in the Trainer cable into the powered on TX sets that TX as the MASTER and plugging in the cable into the unpowered TX sets it as a SLAVE.

2) There is no serious conflict with the Bind/Trainer/panic button. The student can use it for PANIC recovery while the instructor cannot because his trainer switch turns over control to the student.

3) the DXe and DX5e make and excellent pair to act as MASTER/SLAVE transmitters and it doesn’t matter which one is selected as MASTER because the other one will automatically be a SLAVE.

4) Using the training cable helps to set the MASTER TX (cable plugged into the powered on TX) and the SLAVE TX (plug cable into the unpowered TX)..

5) Read the Apprentice manual for setting up different TX’s for MASTER/SLAVE combinations.

6) Don’t ask me about wireless buddy boxing because I don’t know. 

7) I think the best way to set up MASTER/SLAVE TX pairs is to bind each TX to the Apprentice one at a time a make sure all features and buttons work as expected when connected as a SINGLE transmitter. Then do a final binding with the TX that will be the MASTER.

8) NOTE TO THOSE PILOTS THAT HATE SAFE MODE or don’t care about it. When you’re buddy boxing both TX’s MUST BE SETUP so SAFE and PANIC modes are working properly (both TX’s must be talking the same language so to speak). Then you can shut off SAFE by going into EXPERT mode or FM=2 on both TX’s.

Regards,

Richard B.




« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 11:12:02 pm by Richard_RC_Guy »

Offline bweaver

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The way I understand it... You take the cable and plug one end into one transmitter and the other end into the other transmitter.  If works - great.  If it doesn't call Richard or Oscar. 

Thanks so much Richard.  I am so glad you and Oscar are on the flight team.

(See the illustration of my understanding below.)

My add should have been -  Wanted working transmitter trainer cables that work every time
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 09:09:46 am by bweaver »

Offline Richard_RC_Guy

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Hi Bruce:
The way I understand it... You take the cable and plug one end into one transmitter and the other end into the other transmitter.  If works - great.  If it doesn't call Richard or Oscar. 

Thanks so much Richard.  I am so glad you and Oscar are on the flight team.

(See the illustration of my understanding below.)

My add should have been -  Wanted working transmitter trainer cables that work every time

Yes I wanted to *emphasize* the correct sequence of plugging in the cables. That is first plugging in the cable into the powered on MASTER. Then power off the SLAVE and plug the cable into it (power comes on when cable plugged in).  So basically buddy boxing  should work right out of the box with two DXe transmitters provided both have Ch6 reversed and connected to bind switch. Or DXE and DX5e. Some extra setup is required with other transmitters.

Yup, you need the right trainer cable. It must be a mono cable (not stereo) AND it’s best to get the SPEKTRUM cable because sometimes the clone cables have a long plastic shell which *prevents* the audio pin from plugging in all the way.

I headed to the field on Sat. before noon. Will bring my DXe, DX5e, and programmming cables. I should be able to program thru my iPhone (it worked at home).

Regards,

Richard B.

Offline msatin

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Some good news.
I confirmed that the Apprentice configuration file did load properly onto the Tx.
After rebinding everything seems to be working. We did have an issue with the master/slave, but that could have been my fault. Will try again and see what happens.
I can't include the config file but will be happy to email it to anyone, just ask :)

Offline bweaver

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Re @Richard_RC_Guy 's response: Yes I wanted to *emphasize* the correct sequence of plugging in the cables. That is first plugging in the cable into the powered on MASTER. Then power off the SLAVE and plug the cable into it (power comes on when cable plugged in).  So basically buddy boxing  should work right out of the box with two DXe transmitters provided both have Ch6 reversed and connected to bind switch. Or DXE and DX5e. Some extra setup is required with other transmitters.

Yup, you need the right trainer cable. It must be a mono cable (not stereo) AND it’s best to get the SPEKTRUM cable because sometimes the clone cables have a long plastic shell which *prevents* the audio pin from plugging in all the way.

I headed to the field on Sat. before noon. Will bring my DXe, DX5e, and programmming cables. I should be able to program thru my iPhone (it worked at home).


(It is so nice have people on your team that know what they are doing.)

You just had to rub it in.  I will point out to you once again... 

Offline Candu

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Bruce, I have a brand new Turmigy TGY 9X that was was giving to me for spare parts. If it is suitable, I can pass it on to you the next time we meet.