Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Topic started by: Michael on October 13, 2018, 04:37:51 PM

Title: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on October 13, 2018, 04:37:51 PM
Glenn N, Rob D, Bill V, and I have all decided to build Canadair Waterbombers from the same `short`kit. The intention is to build them at the same time, share information as we proceed, and hopefully to finish them in the same colours.

A short kit is essentially plans and a minimum of balsa parts. This kit also included two cowls.

All wood sheeting, wood strips, hardware, etc. needs to be purchased separately. There is no list of what to buy, and there are no building instructions, but there is a colour-photocopy sheet of a magazine article that includes some photos of the construction.

I`ve opened up the plans and placed the wood on top. The laser cut parts look nice, and each piece has a building code number engraved on it.

My first task is to carefully go over the plans and make a list of wood to buy.

Glenn, Rob and Bill will contribute to this thread, and anyone is invited to comment.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on October 13, 2018, 06:35:51 PM
A super project!  I am looking forward to following the construction thread as the planes begin and continue to materialize... 

I am also checking out investment opportunities with companies that grow, log and process balsa lumber.   :)

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 04, 2018, 05:12:02 PM
I'm getting ready to build.

Since there are no instructions, and since the laser cut parts don't all match the plans, there will be a fair amount of figuring out what to do.

I'm starting with the wings, and the first thing I notice is that the rib notches in the balsa for the 1/8th square hardwood don't match the plans. They will be flush with the outer surface, and not under sheeting as indicated on the plans. I'll take out all the parts, and start planning how to build.

I need to decide if I cut and shape the trailing edge from sheet, or if I go back to the hobby store for a formed trailing edge.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 04, 2018, 06:12:01 PM
I started building last night. I have the horizontal stabilizer, the elevators and the finlets built. The laser cutting is very good but the plans seem kind of vague in places and there are no building instructions. There is a short article with a few pictures online, but like Michael says, I think there will be a lot of figuring out to do with this one.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 05, 2018, 10:43:51 AM
It's frustrating when the plans don't match the parts.  I think this might be more of an issue with short kits in this laser cutting era.  It's relatively easy with low commitment to CAD up and cut a low volume run of laser parts, so ensuring accuracy to the plans and ensuring a build sequence makes sense is less important that it was when building die-cut tools and producing a production quantity of full kits.

Anyway, they always say to trust the parts and use the plans as reference.

That aside, I've got my bowl of popcorn ready and I'm watching the show.  This is going to be cool!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on November 05, 2018, 12:18:26 PM
While it is a while off yet, have any of you decided on the color scheme you will select for the finished aircraft?  ???

I did an image search for the CL-415 and found that you have a great selection of full-size aircraft color schemes to choose from.

It is a pretty plane. 

You don't have to commit to one, but I am curious about which schemes you are thinking of.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on November 05, 2018, 03:40:10 PM
I see this build as a tribute to one of our zone members who invented the water bomber scoop in 1960.  He was a member, and a past president of the Bramalea RC Flyers.  The patent for the water bomber scoop is registered in his name, Knox Hawkshaw.  He helped us with our first Ryerson presentation.  The EMFSO/TEMAC/Bramalea members did a presentation of aerodynamics and modelling to the Dean of the faculty.

Forum details at http://temac.ca/smf/index.php?topic=6492.0

He passed away May 8 this year.  His obit.http://www.lifenews.ca/announcement/8604722-hawkshaw-knox-j-nee-peng-

Here's to you Knox. 

Frank
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 05, 2018, 04:16:32 PM
I met him just once at an Oakville Open House Fun Fly.  I was so excited to meet him as I had learned about his history just a little while before meeting him.  He built a large scale PBY model to test the water drop system back in the day (if my memory serves me correctly) and he even had the model at the fun fly.  I don't think it got off the ground that day though.

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 05, 2018, 07:21:42 PM
I built the vertical stab after work tonight. Rob, you are right about it being frustrating when the plans and die cut parts don't match up. Nothing is really labeled on the plans, and none of the die cut pieces really fit the plan. I figure they cut them all oversized so that you can trim everything to make nice joints.  So I just kind of built it the way I thought it should go. If the tail falls off on the maiden I will know I did something wrong!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 05, 2018, 07:56:19 PM
I bought over-size trailing edge stock, and I cut the width to the correct size with a home-made balsa-stripper. I then filed in notches for the rear ribs as per the plans.

My balsa-stripper works well; I tighten the blade to the correct width, and then set the angle to cut just over half the depth, then I cut the top and then the bottom.

If anyone wants to build a balsa stripper, just be warned that it is an open sharp tool. Be careful with it.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 05, 2018, 08:00:59 PM
I hoping for a simple yet familiar colour scheme; something like this.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 05, 2018, 08:25:59 PM
Quote from: bweaver on November 05, 2018, 12:18:26 PM
While it is a while off yet, have any of you decided on the color scheme you will select for the finished aircraft?  ???

I did an image search for the CL-415 and found that you have a great selection of full-size aircraft color schemes to choose from.

It is a pretty plane. 

You don't have to commit to one, but I am curious about which schemes you are thinking of.

We have talked amongst ourselves Bruce and kind of thought we would do them in the same livery but with different registration. Should be good if we get 4 or them built, and then maybe Piker and maybe even Colin get together to fly them all together.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 06, 2018, 04:38:52 PM
Oh Hell!  I'll show up for THAT!!!   ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 06, 2018, 07:13:27 PM
Tonight installed the elevator servo (made a removable hatch), leading edge sanded, lower fin sheeted and finlets finished sanding. They have to have a wide slit cut in the centre from trailing edge towards leading edge so they will slip over leading edge of horizontal stab. Going to watch the Leafs so that is it for tonight.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 06, 2018, 07:16:06 PM
I 'planed' (pun unintended) the trailing edge thinner, as it was a bit too thick.

Then I glued it, with a brace, for the full length of the trailing edge without the ailerons (I am not building flaps; I think Glenn is).
All other spars will be joined as well as possible, but staggered, to avoid a weak spot in the wings.

Overall, the wing is of a very unorthodox construction, with each rib in 3 pieces. I'm just testing things out before I commit to glue.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 06, 2018, 07:18:06 PM
Nice job on the hidden servo, Rob.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 06, 2018, 09:17:58 PM
   Just checking in guys.  It is good to see you have started. I just started my Horizontal Stabilizer and elevators like Rob. I like to get the smaller items out the way before getting into the good stuff.
  As Michael mentioned in a previous post, my CL will have flaps and other items. The cool thing is that we are doing our own vision of the same plane. It will be great to see them fly and hopefully maiden on the same day.

Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 07, 2018, 08:42:34 PM
I'm moving ahead very slowly.

Tonight I took all the rib parts out of the laser cut sheets. There's a lot of pieces!

The middle sections of the ribs have 2 laser cut holes for aileron and flap linkages with a bell-crank system, based on servos in the center section of the wing. I cut those open together for servo wires, as I intend to put servos at each aileron.

The front section has laser cut openings which should be ok for the power wires and maybe servo extensions for the speed controls, depending where I mount them. (In my big Albatross, I have the speed controls in the fuselage, and in my big DC3, the speed controls are in the center of the wing.)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 07, 2018, 10:02:56 PM
I worked in the office late tonight so I only had time to build the rudder. Have to put gussets in and then do some sanding to the leading and trailing edges and then hinge things. Hopefully get a start on the pontoons tomorrow (or whatever the name is of the outer wing thingys)Trying to figure out where to put the rudder servo. Thinking it might go in the vertical stabilizer along with the elevator servo.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 08, 2018, 03:45:03 PM
"Tip Floats"   ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 08, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
Rear ribs (excluding ailerons) glued between trailing edge and rear spar.

All the pins and tools (as weights) are used to keep everything straight, as the rest of the wing will be built forward/from this.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 08, 2018, 08:08:01 PM
Looks good Michael. I like the notching of the trailing edge. I have pretty much finished the tail assembly. I have to add a bit of sheeting to the horizontal stabilizer, sand the tips, hinge it (think I will use pin hinges) and do a finish sanding to the entire thing. Now on to the tip floats (thanks Rob, sounds better than thingys) and then after, probably the wing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 09, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
Mid-wing ribs work started. They're being glued between the rear spar and the front spar and two (the bottom one first) hardwood 1/8" square spars. I'm carefully doing one at a time, holding them straight and in position as the glue is applied and dries.

Note for the others building, I'm using 1/8" thick ribs at the nacelles (other ribs are 1/16"), and leaving 2 and 1/8" space between for the nacelles to fit.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 09, 2018, 07:33:44 PM
Note in the last image above, the plans call for 4.5mm of washout (rear wing twisted up, to help prevent stalls).

Well, I'm not doing that; I'm building the wing flat, but I will have each aileron deflected upwards approx. 1/8" or so, when the aileron controls are at neutral. This has worked well for me in the past.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 10, 2018, 01:36:26 PM
  Looks good guys.
  I started and more or less completed the horizontal stabilizer and elevators. As you can see, I have opted to fully sheet the structures and will later decide whether they get covered in Monokote or get glassed.
  I have also started the tip floats as getting the fiddly parts out of the way first contribute to my enjoyment of the project down the road. I much prefer spending time on the fuselage and wings.
  Anyway, here are a few photos.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 10, 2018, 03:17:45 PM
I like the sheeting idea, but I'm not sure what I'll do.

I've finished gluing in the mid-wing ribs, and I cut and glued in plywood braces at the wing center (where I skipped a rib).

I put 1/8" ribs at the tips, on each side where a nacelle will be placed (2 and 1/8" spaced apart, according to the plan and the nacelle formers), and on each side of the wing center.

The top hardwood spar has also been glued in.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 10, 2018, 05:24:39 PM
You guys are all Building Machines!!   :o
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 10, 2018, 07:16:17 PM
We are !!!  ;D

The next step is more challenging, and I'm guessing my way of building will be ok.

The front of the wing has the ribs inside of 1/16" sheeting, and with a 2-layer leading edge.

I decided to glue the lower sheeting (oversize) directly to the front of the main spar, then glue the front-ribs to the spar (leaving room for the upper sheeting), but not glued to the lower sheeting yet, then form and glue the inner layer of the leading edge to the front of the ribs, and later raise the lower sheeting to meet and be glued to the ribs and leading edge. The sheeting would then be trimmed to the inner leading edge, the top sheeting added, and the outer leading edge would then be glued on and sanded to shape.

This all probably sounds confusing, but it's not really.

I used my home-made balsa stripper to cut the inner leading edge to match the size of the front of the ribs, and then carefully beveled it to match the curve of the ribs.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 11, 2018, 06:52:10 PM
Front ribs all glued in, and then inner-layer of the leading edge glued on.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 13, 2018, 07:24:49 PM
I have finished the frame of the wing floats. Have to sheet them but I will wait until I know the glue is entirely dry as they have compound shapes. I have found using windex on the sheeting allows it to bend nicely around those curves. All the tail control surfaces are hinged, and as per Glenn's suggestion, I rounded the leading edge of the elevators and tail and sanded a hollow into the trailing edge of the vertical hand horizontal stabilizer, so they have a nice fit with little gap. I have servo's in the tail for both the elevators and rudder and they are behind hatches.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 13, 2018, 07:56:04 PM
I don't understand: "I rounded the leading edge of the elevators and tail and sanded a hollow into the trailing edge of the vertical hand horizontal stabilizer, so they have a nice fit with little gap. "

Please explain, and/or show a close-up image.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 13, 2018, 09:30:32 PM
  Hey Michael,
What Rob and I did was create concave profile on the rear edge of the horizontal stabilizer and convex profile on the leading edge of the elevators. This creates a nicer looking gap.
The concave profile is created by wrapping sandpaper around a half inch dowel and sanding as required.

   Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 13, 2018, 09:37:59 PM
I think I get it:

__    __
__CC__

Right?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 13, 2018, 09:43:43 PM
  Yes, exactly!

Sure beats this ><
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 14, 2018, 05:31:21 PM
  So I now have wing tip floats and wing tips for the main wing built. As with my tail, I fully sheeted  the wing tips and built it slightly differently than the plans.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 16, 2018, 06:13:42 PM
Lower wing front sheeting glued to ribs and inner leading edge.

Ailerons constructed.

Beveled wing trailing edge in front of aileron. Hinges will be at the top of the wing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 16, 2018, 06:49:58 PM
Michael, your construction looks very clean and neat, good job. I have just finished what was a real challenge for me, the tip floats. Man, they are full of compound curves and were for me a real bugger to get right. One is done. I think it might be easier to make them out of foam.  You might consider that as I know you have good experience working with the stuff.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 16, 2018, 09:07:41 PM
Next, I'll clean up my working table, and build the wing tips and tip floats.

I won't do the top sheeting, front leading edge, hinges, servo bays, etc., until I build the nacelles, and figure our exactly how they fit into/onto the wing.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 17, 2018, 01:56:57 PM
  Things are looking good guys. Nice work.

   I have finished the vertical fins located on the Horizontal stabilizer and will start to work on the Vertical fin and Rudder. The drawings and cuts are definitely off on this, from what I have been seeing. But the beauty of working with wood is the ability to change and improve to suit your needs.
  I hope to start the Fuselage tomorrow and would like to see it more or less complete(not the wing) before I take a little vacation in December.
Here is a photo of my stabilizer.

 
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 17, 2018, 02:46:59 PM
Very nice, Glenn.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 17, 2018, 03:51:18 PM
Winglets (wing tips) built, with 4 ribs (2 shown on plans), and flush with both sides.

Rib shaped pieces cut from trailing edge stock, for the outward angle.

Not sheeted.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 18, 2018, 11:04:10 AM
I deviated from the plans on the tip floats.

The plans clearly indicate that the tip floats are weakly attached to the wing, in order to break of, in case of a mishap from lateral forces on water, in order to limit damage to the wing.

It makes sense, but based on my previous experiences with broken-off tip floats, I felt that some additional strength would be ok.

I installed 2 1/8th inch diameter carbon fiber tubes, which will fit into balsa blocks in the wing.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 18, 2018, 12:15:00 PM
Sheeting started.

You're right, Rob; This is slow and delicate.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 18, 2018, 06:13:15 PM
Michael, love the carbon rod idea, I have incorporated it into my floats. Glenn was suggesting he might do something so that in the event a tip float breaks off it will stay attached to the rest of the plane. I have been thinking that maybe a coil of dental floss or some braided fishing line, attached at one end to the bottom of the wing and the other end attached to the float itself would work.  The line could be stuffed down inside the float strut. this might prevent having to try and retrieve the float from out in a body of water (assuming we can find someplace to fly off water next year).
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 18, 2018, 07:41:32 PM
Good idea.  Glenn has seen my tip floats floating free in the Bay many times.  He's planning ahead   ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 20, 2018, 12:20:03 AM
    Hey Guys,

   Some excellent ideas being tossed out. I like Michael's carbon rod attachment and yes I am going to have some sort of restraining system to hopefully keep the floats secured to the aircraft even when they break free.

  I have constructed the two half frames. I did mine using 1/4" stock instead of the 3/16" square so it required a little change here or there. But the exterior outline is correct. Tomorrow I will start to join the two halves together and possibly start the keel assembly.

Rob Pike: question did you go with a scale keel or a more subdued design? the drawing shows both but has cuts for a flatter shape. What would you recommend?

  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 20, 2018, 02:29:06 PM
My CL-215 is loosely based on the Steve Gray plans from MAN many years ago.  The V on the bottom is flatter than scale, I believe, and I've always felt it made for easier take-off from water.  If you like, I can measure the V angle tonight, for reference...

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 20, 2018, 06:37:53 PM
Robert ...

Is your model's fuselage sheeted/fiberglassed/painted, or sheeted and open structure and film covered?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 20, 2018, 08:08:06 PM
   Hi Robert,

  Yes, if you could measure that would be great. I do not think I will change the Hull shape as the pieces are cit and will be ready to install. It was more of a curiosity to see how a deeper "V" would affect the water performance. I am not looking to make water flight more difficult, just fun.
  In the meantime, two dimensional structures are now being joined to make a 3 dimensional shape and I stuck the tail in position for reference.
  This is a very fun build, especially since the small parts are mostly assembled and ready for final sanding.

  Here is what it looks like today.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 20, 2018, 09:13:33 PM
Very nice, guys!

I just measured my old CL-215 hull and it has quite a shallow V.  147 total degrees just ahead of the step and the V increases gradually toward the nose where it gets steeper more rapidly as it turns up to the nose block. 

Michael, my fuselage is built old school with 1/8" balsa sizes over formers that I built from 1/8"x3/4" balsa to create the outer former shape.  The top sheeting is 1/16" balsa, the sheeting behind the step is 1/16" balsa.  The sheeting ahead of the step if 1/8" balsa, but when I refurbished the framework to recover the plane, I added 1/32 ply to the underside ahead of the step as the hull had taken a beating over the years.  My fuselage does not have a framed under structure, or any open areas.

Edit.  I realized I didn't finish the answer to Michael.  I didn't glass or paint mine.  It's simply covered over the balsa sheeting.

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 20, 2018, 11:00:52 PM
Well, work continues. I am quite enjoying the build as it allows improvisation. I have finished all the small subsections that have to be built and am thinking I will start the wing next, and leave my favourite  part, the fuse, to the last. I am wavering between Glenns idea of sheeting the entire structure and Michaels idea of a super light model. I am concerned that trying to cover all the surfaces with monocote would be a vexing job, and so am seriously things of sheeting and fibreglassing everything, and then being able to paint the whole thing. I guess I will have to make the decision soon. I have been using a wood stripper to turn 1/4 and 1/8 by 3 inches balsa into strips, and have saved a lot of money on wood (good if I decide to sheet everything).
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on November 21, 2018, 08:45:11 AM
It is great to watch the construction, consider your considerations and see the differences each of you are applying to your own aircraft.  Carry on...

(At the rate you are going, you will be done before the end of winter, then onto another project.)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 21, 2018, 11:04:50 AM
We have three fast and motivated builders egging each other on.  They'll probably be done before the end of December!!!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 24, 2018, 05:28:06 PM
Opinions/advice needed.

The plans call for a pair of 860 kv motors capable of turning 11/7 props.

I already have 2 E-Flite 890 kv "450" motors that can turn (I've used these contra rotating) 9/3 3-blade props.

I am OK with these, or should I go to bigger motors?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 24, 2018, 06:38:05 PM
Michael,
I asked Rob Pike and he uses eflite 32s on 4 s. Then again the Piker flies his water bomber like a stunt plane, LOL.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 24, 2018, 06:56:12 PM
  I plan on using a couple of Turnigy motors. Both are 790 Kv motors.

  Here is the planking going on to the bottom of the fuselage.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 25, 2018, 12:09:26 PM
   Hi Michael,

  After checking the spec's on your motor and the fact that people claim to have used larger props, I would suggest that your motor choice would be fine, especially since you are doing a very light structure. The Eflite site does not report maximum amps for the motor, but if you experiment with two blade props I am sure you will find a size that gives best performance and will lead you to find a suitable scale three blade. I am not sure what the pitch of your three blade props are. If it is the 3" pitch I see in your last post, I would think that would be good for trolling...lol :D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 25, 2018, 03:27:14 PM
Oops, should have said 9/7.

Anyway, I do plan on keeping it light.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 25, 2018, 04:19:58 PM
  Here is the current state of my fuselage. The Keel section is covered and the right side of the fuselage is also sheeted.
  I require the left side to remain off until my elevator and rudder connections are set up.

  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 25, 2018, 05:11:21 PM
Looking AWESOME Glenn!!!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 25, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
   Thanks Rob!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 25, 2018, 06:07:55 PM
Tip floats done. These will be smoothed, fiber-glassed, and painted.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 25, 2018, 06:08:40 PM
Nacelle formers assembled.

Be careful to glue the correct tops to the correct bottoms.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 25, 2018, 06:13:47 PM
There are no instructions on how to build the nacelles (or anything else for that matter), so after careful observation and consideration, I decided that the nacelle sides need to be made first, onto which the structure will be built.

I extended the former locations on the plans with a ballpoint pen, in order to transfer them onto the sides, as well as outline the inner plywood doubler location.

Once done, I made 3 other sides, and marked them similarly, but 2 right sided and 2 left sided.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 25, 2018, 06:16:41 PM
The plans simply say that the nacelles will slide onto the wing between specific rib locations.

I didn't want to weaken the wing structure, so I cut appropriate slots into the nacelle sides so that they fit and slide down onto the wing, preserving the wing spars.

Tested for fit.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 25, 2018, 06:28:06 PM
Glenn, looks great. I started on the wing this afternoon. After much consideration I have decided to do flaps and also to sheet the entire plane, and then fiberglass is with 1 oz cloth and epoxy resin. Because the wing, as on the plans, is sheeted from the leading edge to the main spar, and then covered in monocote, the "middle" section of the ribs needed to be trimmed 1/16 both top and bottom in order to allow full sheeting front to back. It is a nice touch that the ribs have round holes in them that accommodated a couple of pieces of brass tubing. I then drew a line 1/16 of an inch below the existing top of the rib and simply sanded them all down together. Worked well. Glenn, how are you going to hinge your flaps? Do you think something like the plans use for the aileron hinge would work well for the flaps. Seems to me it would be a simple solution to use pin hinges near the upper surface of the flap/wing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 25, 2018, 06:32:30 PM
Quote from: Michael on November 25, 2018, 06:13:47 PM
There are no instructions on how to build the nacelles (or anything else for that matter), so after careful observation and consideration, I decided that the nacelle sides need to be made first, onto which the structure will be built.

I extended the former locations on the plans with a ballpoint pen, in order to transfer them onto the sides, as well as outline the inner plywood doubler location.

Once done, I made 3 other sides, and marked them similarly, but 2 right sided and 2 left sided.
Thanks Michael. I have been stewing about those nacelles. Your plan makes a lot of sense. Make sure to check the cowling for proper fit before you finish the whole nacelle. 
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 25, 2018, 07:08:03 PM
I didn't cut down my ribs for the center sheeting section. I should have. I'll figure out what to do when I get to that step.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 26, 2018, 10:45:53 AM
I just wanna say how much I'm enjoying following along with you guys.  It's like balsa porn!   ;D

All three builds look beautiful!

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 26, 2018, 08:29:08 PM
As I am getting ready to build the nacelles, I am noticing more differences between the plans, the parts, and how it will be constructed.

My nacelles sides were a bit to big, so I made them a little smaller.
The plans call for 3/8" triangle stock, which I bought and will use, but I think 1/2" would have been better.

I test fit, filed, sanded and adjusted the nacelle sides until they fit nicely on the wing. I also cut away wood from these sides (and the plywood duoblers) so electrical wiring will pass through, lining up with the holes in the ribs.

I will also have to trim the formers a bit thinner. so the finished (and covered) nacelles will fit between the appropriate ribs.

I notice the plans show the plywood motor mount between the plywood doublers that protrude forward of former 1, but the laser cut piece is too big (as if to be mounted on the front edges of the doublers. I'll leave that for later, after the nacelles are further under construction.

There is a lot of fidgeting and adjusting; more than I thought.
Note to everyone: If you want to fly a Waterbomber, it is a respectable option to buy a stryrofoam ARF.  ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 26, 2018, 09:45:40 PM
Good Job Michael.Thanks for the detail and the photos of how you built your nacelles.  I started the wing tonight and as I have decided to sheet the entire thing, I had to cut 1/16 off the top and bottom of the "middle" ribs. I did that by joining them with brass pipe and clamps and drawing a 1/16 line on the side of the outside rib and then sanding them all down at once. Because if I put a sheet of 1/16th down I would not be able to see the rib locations I cut strips of balsa to lift the ribs off the building board. I used 1/8th plywood for the main spar and next I will cut and fit the rear main spar, which is also 1/8 ply. I plan to build flaps and am pondering how to hinge them. I quite like this kit as it make me improvise and figure out ways to do things different from the plans.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on November 27, 2018, 07:38:48 AM
I am thoroughly enjoying this build.

It is full of great advice - like how to evenly reduce the size of each rib quickly and efficiently so that the wings can be skinned and the best advice to people with more than two thumbs - 'consider buying an ARF if you wish to fly a Waterbomer' which is advice I personally would take to heart.   ;)

Carry on guys, you are doing an impressive job.  I can see you love doing this and the results will prove it.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 27, 2018, 08:41:00 AM
   Some really fine work here!
Michael, what wood thickness did you use for the Nacelles? I plan on using 1/8th so that I have strength and the ability to sand and round it off slightly.
Rob, that 1/8 ply spar will definitely have a lot of strength. Where did you purchase the proper length or did you rip it yourself?
My flap hinges will be similar to what is shown on the drawings. Have not decided what material to use yet. May be plywood painted and sealed.
   Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 27, 2018, 09:29:28 AM
I'm using 1/16th sheet.

I am building my model as a large 'park-flyer', to be as light as reasonably possible, to fly in a scale and slow manner.

I'm aiming for a flight style like my Albatross.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 27, 2018, 09:35:58 AM
I bought a sheet of 48 X12 X1/8th aircraft grade ply. Because my table saw was destroyed in the fire a couple of years ago, I had Ron at Pinnacle rip it for me. I joined the 2- 48 inch spars in the centre area, and they siamesed the joint with another piece of the extra length of  spar from the end of the wing. Next step will be to add the rear spar and then build boxes for the servos for the ailerons and flaps. after that I will install the front part of the ribs and then sheet the entire wing with 1/16 before fiberglassing with 1 oz cloth and finishing resin. By the way guys, I bought some stuff the US Army uses to stop  water leakage and corrosion. It is a spray on product, and it completely waterproofs things. There is a You Tube video of them spraying a little helicopter and then putting the thing in and aquarium. They start it up underwater and it "flies" to the top of the water and then takes to the air. I am going to spray my servos with it and you guys are welcome to use my spray can to do the same if you feel you want to.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 27, 2018, 09:39:16 AM
Quote from: Michael on November 26, 2018, 08:29:08 PM
Note to everyone: If you want to fly a Waterbomber, it is a respectable option to buy a stryrofoam ARF.  ;D

:(
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 27, 2018, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: piker on November 27, 2018, 09:39:16 AM


:(


Elitist.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on November 27, 2018, 12:49:22 PM
Yep!   ;D

... or just old fashioned
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 27, 2018, 01:31:28 PM
Old fashioned elitist.

;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on November 27, 2018, 02:42:54 PM
Does anyone know where you can get a foam ARF from?

A shameless flyer
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 27, 2018, 04:27:49 PM
  Hey Simon,

   You want foam, check here: https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/showthread.php?t=568350

   Here is my fuselage at the moment. Still deciding my tail control surface installation, so I proceeded to work on the nose.

  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 27, 2018, 06:24:06 PM
Hey Glenn. That looks great. I am going down to work on the wing some more. Looking at the horizontal stabilizer. I am concerned about how to attach it to the vertical stab. On the plans, from what I can see it is simply glued to one of the ribs of the stab, and then sheeted around. It occurs to me that that is not a very strong joint. If the tail falls off, nasty things happen, so I am trying to devise a better, more secure, but still light solution. Any ideas? Michael, you care to add your ideas for the same question?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 27, 2018, 07:47:18 PM
No idea, yet.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 27, 2018, 07:53:16 PM
More work on the nacelles.

Plywood doublers glued on (inside).

Formers very carefully trimmed to allow the nacelle to fit easily onto the wing (measure and test fit 10 times, cut once!).

Formers glued to one side, then the second carefully tack-glued while sitting on the wing, then removed and fully glued.

A nice fit onto the wing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 27, 2018, 08:23:56 PM
  Rob,

   This is the reason why I am sheeting the vertical stabilizer.
Some extra reinforcement may be required just to ensure that the tail assembly is strong enough for the odd bump and knock as well.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 28, 2018, 10:11:00 PM
Front nacelle former glued it.

Triangle stock cut on the bottom (the inside edge of the curve), and then glued in place.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 29, 2018, 12:04:05 AM
   Very busy today on the CL415. I have roughed in the elevator control mechanism and will likely be able to set the horizontal stabilizer in place with adhesive. I am still just working out for the durability and dependability. If the links bind or worse yet fail, it would mean opening a access door (which might not be a bad idea). Anyway, we will see tomorrow.
Here is the fuselage today. It is now beginning to resemble a Cl water bomber.
  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on November 30, 2018, 01:06:37 AM
  Well guys,
  I did a little bit more today. This involved getting elevator control to the servo location. Given the bends involved, nyrods were not going to cut it. So bell cranks it is. As you can see by the photo, a bit of planning goes along way. The only thing causing problems for me now is sheeting the vertical stabilizer after the fuselage. If I change the pushrod in the fuselage from a Z bend to a quick connect, I will have the ability to sheet the vertical stabilzer first and the fuselage second.... Still thinking that one through. But that is part of the fun!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on November 30, 2018, 09:43:35 AM
Glenn, I put my servos for the elevator and rudder in the vertical stabilizer. I am rethinking my decision to do that after seeing what you have done. My rudder feels heavy. I may redo it this weekend and move the servos forward.
Last night a bit more work on the wing. Added the forward portion of the ribs, the false leading edge and then sheeted the bottom of the wing. Hope to get the ailerons and flaps done over the weekend, as well as the servo mounts for them. I think I will then build the fuse and come back to the nacelles after you and Michael have worked them out. I just looked at the pictures i have attached and perhaps the first thing I need to do is tidy up the workbench. I am getting tired of trying to work on the 6 square inches that doesn't have tools or glue or whatever on it.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 30, 2018, 08:39:57 PM
Both nacelles ready for sanding and top sheeting.

They are not glued into the wing yet; that will wait until after the entire plane is covered.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on November 30, 2018, 09:56:02 PM
Nacelle tops sheeted.

Next step: clean up my table.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 01, 2018, 08:27:46 AM
I have not yet glued on the firewalls. I'm waiting to measure with the motor, prop, spinner, etc.

Lower front triangle stock and sheeting done.

Cowls cut to size, and a bit of extra balsa glued on top for a nice fit on the cowls.

Sanding and shaping is next.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 01, 2018, 08:29:28 AM
If anybody wants, here is a similar one being advertised, almost finished, with motors, speed controls and servos.

https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/showthread.php?t=572689

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 01, 2018, 08:51:37 AM
     You guys are doing great!
I am on vacation for a week and am not sure how often I can check in. I look forward to seeing the progress when I return.
I have been thinking about the wing and have decided to use 1/4" square spruce with shear webs fully sheeted. The plans call for 1/4"x1/8" so very minimal effort to change the ribs to accept square stock.

Rob, good choice to get the servos out of the tail. My linkage is buried in the tail and will be hidden. The only trick was to allow a hollowed area in the rudder to accept the belcrank.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 01, 2018, 08:57:44 AM
Have a great trip Glenn. Be sure to have a couple of cold ones for us poor schmucks here. See you when you get back. Hope to have the fuse mostly done by then.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 01, 2018, 02:18:21 PM
Nacelles shaped and (mostly) sanded, and cowls cut open.

The plywood firewalls in the kit fit exactly to the mounts on my motors, but I would have to use bolts and T-nuts.

The problem with that, is if I later want to use larger motors, the T-nuts will be glued onto the back of the firewall, and drilling new mounting holes might be difficult.

I may use new plywood and use wood screws to attach the motor mounts.

I'm thinking about what to do, and how to do it.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 01, 2018, 04:12:58 PM
Michael, a more simple solution to making new firewalls. Why not just turn the motors 45 degrees, drill pilot holes and use wood screws on the existing firewall?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 01, 2018, 04:27:51 PM
That is a good and simple idea.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 01, 2018, 05:25:04 PM
Firewalls glued on upside down, in order for the motor to be centered in the cowl.

Formed and beveled blocks glued at tops and bottoms for a snug fit for the cowls.

Test fit on the wing.

My next tasks will be to hinge the ailerons, install servos, install the motors, and finish the most of wing, except the parts where it will attach to the fuselage.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 01, 2018, 07:10:56 PM
One aileron hinged with Robart 1/8th inch pin hinges, at the top of the aileron.

A small channel was cut out, and holes drilled.

I've only done two hinges, and it's very solid. Does anyone think a third (in the middle) would be needed?

Easily swings up and down.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 02, 2018, 12:09:52 PM
Front of wings outboard of the nacelles are sheeted; overall seems structure is much stronger.

In preparation of sheeting the section between the nacelles, motor wires are installed, and blocks are shaped to form solid areas, later to be drilled to screw the wing onto the fuselage.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 02, 2018, 01:38:31 PM
Center-front-top sheeted.

Leading edge glued on and shaped/sanded.

Tip ribs added for aileron clearance from winglets.

Next, aileron servo installation.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 02, 2018, 03:15:17 PM
I forgot to take into account mounting the tip floats, before sheeting the wing.

Oh well, a bit of surgery has begun.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on December 02, 2018, 04:54:19 PM
Michael,

re: your I've only done two hinges, and it's very solid. Does anyone think a third (in the middle) would be needed?

I always put a minimum of 3 on a primary surface.  The reason is very simple: with only 2 hinges on a surface, if one hinge fails you have a catastrophic failure.  If you have 3 and one fails you still have a working surface. Critical on a primary surface (elevator, aileron).  Live dangerously on a rudder or flap.

I have had 3 aileron and 2 elevator hinge failures in 25 years and not a single loss. 

Rule of thumb- the more complicated an airplane the greater the need for 3 hinge points.  Murphy's Law.  Your call  ;)

For what it is worth.  Keep building. Great project. :D

Frank

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 02, 2018, 06:20:09 PM
Michael, I think Frank is right, and his logic makes perfect sense. I constructed the sheeted ailerons today and will do the flaps tomorrow and I think I will use 3 hinges on each. Thought I was going to be able to build all afternoon, but Grandaughter, a trip to Stouffville and Christmas lights got in the way. Only got about an hour and a half in.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 02, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
I'll think about 3 hinges.

In the meantime, I've installed 1/8th inch thick 'lite' plywood on the bottom of each outer wing bay (and balsa blocks inside), with holes matched to the carbon fiber rods on the tip floats.

I'll be busy working for the next number of days, but now the aileron servo installation is next.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on December 02, 2018, 08:51:47 PM
You've been very busy, Michael!  It looks great!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 03, 2018, 07:33:19 PM
Finally got a bit of time to work again. I thought I was going to be able to build at least for 1/2 of the day on the weekend, but ended up getting about 90 minutes total. Anyway after work today I constructed the ailerons, hinged them (thank you Michael, copied you but used 3 hinges) and finally started work on the fuse. I used trailing edge on the rear of the wing and the front of the aileron so as to get as much travel as possible.  In order to make the stringers bend I soaked them with windex. For the flaps I think I am going to do mine scale, the way Colin did on his. It seems easier and more realistic than just pin hinges.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 04, 2018, 06:35:19 PM
Ok, got to work on the fuse. finished both sides last night and tonight joined them in the centre section. Biggest thing is to try and make things as square as possible and so I spent considerable time (and a few choice words when the clamps kept popping off) but I think it is pretty good. Hope to get a chance to do a bit more tomorrow afternoon before the Christmas Party.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 07, 2018, 08:17:29 PM
A third (middle) hinge added to the aileron, and servo (and horn and linkage) installed.

At neutral, the servo arm position is such that there will be more up aileron travel than down.

The servo will be open on the bottom of the wing, because I prefer to be able to make adjustments if needed. I'll make up some type of cover later to help keep water away.

The servo sits in balsa. The holes were hardened with glue, and I believe (and it is my experience) that the balsa will be strong enough to hold the servo.

The extra balsa around is to give the covering something to stick to.

Now the other side.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 09, 2018, 10:07:07 PM
Elevator construction under way.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 10, 2018, 07:17:09 PM
I had trouble with the forward section of the fuse. The stringers that curve both upwards and inwards when I tried to bring them together they cracked, and 2 or 3 attempts at fixing them did not work. I got a piece of 2 X4X12 soft balsa and carved a nose section from that, then hollowed it out. It should be strong and although slightly heavier than built up, it is in the nose and should not pose a problem. I cannot find any plans to build the cockpit roof, which is the next structural part to build. The battery hatch is built but it needs a bit of leveling and re-enforcement but that should not take long. starting to look like a plane at last.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 11, 2018, 09:51:03 AM
The built-up fuselage structure with sheeting doesn't really fit into my KISS strategy, and I don't want to experience the challenges Rob faced, so I will be following Robert Pike's advice.

I will make the fuselage sides from 1/8th sheet only; no 'sticks' sub-structure.

In the meantime, I'm still working on the elevator.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 12, 2018, 08:36:36 AM
After fooling around trying to make the battery hatch a built up unit, I decided to just carve one out of some nice 3/4 inch balsa I had. Then using the plans (thanks Glenn, didn't see the plan for the hatch hidden way over to the right side) I built the cockpit roof. I found it somewhat intricate to build. Anyway, looks good at this point and everything seems to fit correctly. I should have some time this afternoon to build the V hull, keel and probably sheet the bottom of the  plane.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 13, 2018, 07:08:20 PM
Tonight I sheeted the bottom of the hull. I used 1/8th balsa from the nose to the step and 1/16 from the step back. I will re-enforce it with a skin of 1/64th ply and then glass the whole thing. I spent a lot of time carving the nose block. I had to laminate some 1 inch plank I had. I then had to use my sander to get the correct shape, after I cut out the very rough shape with a band saw. There is no real drawing of what the finished block should look like, so I just kind of worked it until it looked right. Think it came out ok. Before I sheet any more of the plane I am going to work out the placement of the servos and batteries and all. I am thinking I will fly it on 2 4S batteries like Rob Pike does on his, with maybe a couple of 25 or 32 motors turning 3 blade counter rotating props.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 14, 2018, 07:07:04 PM
I fabricated and installed the 1/8 balsa battery tray, finished the cockpit roof supports glued the nose on and applied filler. I couldn't resist putting most of the major parts together. It is nice to see the big picture shaping up. I have decided to close the store between Christmas and New Years so I am hoping to get a few building days in. I am wrestling with whether to go to the trouble Glenn has with his bell crank system of just leave the servos in the tail. I love the simplicity of the servos in the tail, and that work is already done, but am mindful of too much weight in that big tail. On the other hand the plans call for one 3s 4000 battery and I am thinking 2- 3 or even 4 s 4000, so maybe a little tail weight is not a bad thing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 14, 2018, 08:29:27 PM
I'm probably going to put servos in the tail.

I'm probably going to use a >< hinge line on my elevator.

Both not so scale, but within my KISS strategy.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 15, 2018, 03:41:46 PM
Stab and elevator and "finlets" are done, hinged (not glued yet) and shaped. A bit more sanding later.

This was a bit more work and thought than I expected, but it was fun.

I haven't put a control horn in yet, because I haven't figured out how that will be controlled yet.

Soon, I start the fin/rudder.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on December 15, 2018, 07:44:23 PM
BEAUTIFUL flying boats coming together!  Keep it up, guys. 

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 15, 2018, 08:52:33 PM
   Wow! Rob that is coming together nicely.
As for bell cranks, they work for me but they are fiddly and require a lot of pre-build planning. Right now I am glassing the elevators as the final step. After that I can start the assembly of the tail section to the fuselage and work towards sheeting the left side of the fuselage.  As for your aircraft, do what you feel will work well for you. The servos in the tail definitely are easier to setup and maintain. This direction I took may come back to haunt me...lol.

   Michael,
  That is interesting about not doing a frame. I bet that will work real well!
I am really blown away at how the same aircraft from the same drawings can be built so differently and each one will be successful. After watching the video of Colin's we know they will all be great flyers!

  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 16, 2018, 01:02:50 PM
Other than more sanding and control horns, the tail feather are done.

I did "beef-up" a few areas to make sure the covering won't twist nor bend balsa ribs.

The stabilizer is a snug fit in the fin, with a bit of room to accommodate covering.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on December 16, 2018, 05:10:25 PM
Great to see the progress.

Just ran across a French mega scale model meet. A report that has videos of 2 CL 415's 5.6 meter span, 50 kg.  Look at 47:15 run time.
I love the Super Connie (146 kg's!!) at 1:20 run time.  Also, the huge DH 88 (6.8 m span, 68kg's) for Rogerthat at 35:27 run time.

Nice to see a great assortment of aircraft with a lot of great take-offs and landings.

Andy, look at the transmitters.  72 meg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgi7kUcD6uA

Frank
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 16, 2018, 05:42:16 PM
Solid fuselage sides:

1. Balsa sheets from the store are usually not exactly straight-edged, so that's what I took care of first. Then they're glued together.

2. Plans are carefully placed on top of the balsa, and the edges are marked onto the balsa through the plans with a pin-tipped tool.

3. Then, carefully cut out. The shape doesn't need to be exact (I'm cutting free-hand, so, up or down a milometer or so), but the 2 sides will have to be the same.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 16, 2018, 05:45:10 PM
The sheeting wasn't quite wide enough, so 2 other pieces are cut to shape/size, and glued on.

The glue joint is done on top of the clear plastic backing from a roll of Monokote; CA does not stick to it at all. It does stick to wax paper sometimes.

One side is done; then trace the exact shape onto more sheeting.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 16, 2018, 07:34:39 PM
So I got a couple of hours to work this afternoon. I sheeted the top of the fuse and then the horizontal stab and vertical stab. When I built the finletts I sheeted them with 1/32. That was a mistake. the sheeting was so thin that when I tried to slip them into the slots in the stab, the sheeting chipped and things just went from bad to worse as I tried to make them fit. When one broke in half I decided to just make new ones out of 1/8th sheet and use 1/64 ply to make a skin to strengthen them. Now I am happy with them. I have installed the battery tray, nice big area. I have decided I will leave the servos in the tail as I am pretty sure using 2 batteries will balance the plane. Next step will be to cover 1/2 of the fuse so I still have access to the inside of the plane on the unsheeted other side. Then the dreaded flaps before tackling the nacelles. I think it will be easer to work on the flaps without the nacelles in place. I want to do flaps just because the plane looks so cool (I am talking about Rob Pike's plane now) just slowed right down with the big barn door flaps down and the plane just skimming across the water as if it was picking up a load to dump on a fire. We really need to find some place to float fly next year!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 18, 2018, 07:02:01 PM
The starboard side of the fuse is sheeted. I covered the 1/8th hull bottom with a skin of 1/64 ply. Should protect it well. The whole lot will be glassed over. The flaps are built, but not sheeted on top yet, I will do that after I build the scale hinges. On to the nacelles.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on December 18, 2018, 08:45:27 PM
They are all coming along great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 19, 2018, 06:26:57 PM
Front inner fuselage sides scored (cut about half-way through) in anticipation of challenges when bending the wood.

(The cuts make bending inwards easier.)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 19, 2018, 06:31:03 PM
Remember the Windex Michael.
Made the hinges for the flaps. A lot of  cutting of small parts , but I think it is going to work.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 20, 2018, 07:55:02 PM
Building formers, strong and square.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 20, 2018, 09:25:26 PM
Fuselage starts taking shape.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 21, 2018, 06:22:47 AM
2 more formers.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 21, 2018, 08:12:10 AM
Looks good and should help with your idea to build as light as possible.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 21, 2018, 06:31:33 PM
I am pretty happy with the way the flaps turned out. I used the scale hinges that are on the plans, made them out of 3/32 aircraft ply. I plan to operate the flaps with a servo contained in the wing and running a pushrod to the leading edge of the flap, instead of an exterior linkage. Built the servo tray, and I think I will just attach the servo to the tray itself, maybe hot glue. Kind of a busy day tomorrow but maybe get a start on the nacelles.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on December 21, 2018, 06:54:41 PM
DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT USE HOT GLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 21, 2018, 07:06:39 PM
OK Bruce, why, and what would you use?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on December 22, 2018, 12:19:14 AM
I have found hot glue to fail when used to secure a relatively smooth surface as it ages. Epoxy for example has a much better permanent adherence by comparison. A bump or two will cause the surfaces to become disjointed.  I have experienced it a number of times.  I do not use hot glue for attaching servos or other similar materials, because it just doesn't stand up.

The way I see it anyways....  ::)

I would use the wood frame and screws through the servo as originally designed to hold the servo in place.  Especially if I was building something of more value than a Warwing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 22, 2018, 09:04:33 AM
Thanks Bruce. I suppose with the amount of building in this thing building a couple of extra servo frames is nothing. Also if they are not glued in they are easier to change out.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on December 22, 2018, 11:26:20 AM
My two cents.  I almost always glue in my wing servos with a generous amount of medium CA.  The servos in my water bomber were glued in that way over 20 years ago.  It's permanent as far as I'm concerned.  It doesn't hurt to rough up the side of the servo to help the glue adhere.

When the plane is crashed, or retired with honours, I just pop the servo off with the flat screwdriver.  It will bring a layer of the plywood with it and it looks ugly at first but with a bit of sanding to get past the wood and glue down to the servo case plastic, the servo is pre-sanded and ready to be glued into the next wing.

Yes, it does make the servo ugly, but glueing offers a fast and secure way to attach servos in a confined space.

By the way... GREAT job on the Bomber builds!  Awesome!!

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 22, 2018, 05:00:00 PM
More formers; all formers, and lower fuselage formers started.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on December 22, 2018, 09:53:55 PM
Nice build box, Michael.  ;)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 23, 2018, 02:00:52 PM
Oh, you noticed, Simon.  ;)

Lower formers, keel and bottom sheeting done.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 23, 2018, 09:53:39 PM
Rob and Glenn ....

I don't seem to have the top fuselage formers 1, 1A and 2, not do I see them on the plans.

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 23, 2018, 09:54:01 PM
   Michael,
  Your fuselage is coming along good. I can definitely see the advantage of two solid sides as a staring point.
  My fuselage is coming along well, but my build was slowed down by the logistics of buried controls for the rudder and elevator. It required me to fiberglass the vertical fin, rudder, Horizontal stabilizer and elevators. Then came the sanding, filling and smoothing several times and painting with primer. I as of today have finally glued the assembly to the fuselage which will allow me to finish the balsa work and allow me the opportunity to start the wing. Here are some pictures prior to gluing the fin into position.

   By the way, I noticed the F-16 toooooo!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 23, 2018, 09:59:31 PM
  You have to make a best guess for the nose formers. Pretty easy, just make some paper templates and transfer on to balsa using the height shown at each high spot on the drawing and the width of the nose section. It will look close. You can also confirm with Full size photos of the aircraft to confirm that your nose section is correct.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 23, 2018, 10:11:19 PM
Thanks Glenn. I'll make the formers as you describe.

Your plane is coming together really nicely.

This "kit" seems a lot more like a scratch build.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 24, 2018, 08:05:36 AM
Front upper formers.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 24, 2018, 09:45:55 AM
   Well done, that is exactly what I did. The only addition I would recommend is that you cut a slot and add a joiner down the centre of the three formers to keep them straight and stronger while planking the area.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 24, 2018, 10:14:59 AM
Now you tell me!

I spent about half an hour looking for those formers before I figured I would make my own. I did not put that piece down the centre or the 3 bulkheads, I just sheeted them.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 24, 2018, 10:46:51 AM
Planking on nose section done.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 24, 2018, 12:28:50 PM
Nice job on the planking. I'm impressed. Mine is much more "rustic"
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 24, 2018, 04:03:43 PM
Wing on fuselage.

Laser-cut plywood beefed-up with hard balsa on top and bottom, and the tapped to match 1/4" nylon screws, and threads then hardened with thin CA.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 24, 2018, 04:32:15 PM
    Nice work!
  Michael, are you going to cut the forward leaning balsa shape where the canopy sits? On my fuse, I added the triangular shape and had it bend inwards to coincide with the cantilevered roof line.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 24, 2018, 04:42:27 PM
That's too many big words for me; I don't understand.

Show me an image, and ask again.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 24, 2018, 05:01:49 PM
     I mean this little triangular piece here.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 24, 2018, 05:40:54 PM
The triangle is part of my slab-side.

Time for a break and a look at the work so far.

At this pace, I may start buying covering by the end of the week. I'd like to go ahead with a finish like the photo below. Are you guys ok wit that?

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 24, 2018, 05:59:27 PM
I'm good with the colour scheme, kind of like the red and yellow combo. I have been screwing around with the in wing servos that will power the flaps with internal pushrods rather than exterior control horns and control rods. The servos are brand new but are buzzing even when under little load. Don't know it they are defective, hope not they are glued to the ply plates in the bottom of the wing. The good news is the flaps work very well and are scale.   
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 24, 2018, 06:34:51 PM
Sometimes digital servos buzz under light load.

If they make no noise under no load, I'd guess they are ok.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 24, 2018, 07:01:21 PM
Ya, but they are not digital. I took them out and even under no load the servo buzzes at it's end of travel. Would it be anything to do with the servo tester? I mean do you know if somehow the servo tester pushes the end points of the servo?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2018, 07:21:52 AM
If they don't buzz at the center, I would guess they are fine.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 25, 2018, 09:07:50 AM
But they buzz when the flaps are closed because they are not at centre but rather at the extreme end of travel. I am going to put the servo on the tester, and put it on the setting where the servo travels back and forth and leave it to complete a few hundred cycles to see if that helps. If not I will return the thing to Pinnacle as if that does not fix it I will assume it is defective. Saying that, there is a lot on the internet about these servos and I do not think they are very good, or at least not high quality.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 25, 2018, 11:56:48 AM
   What type of servos are you using and what size? Sometimes the linkages apply a little bit of a load on the gear train of the servo which helps to exacerbate the sound. You may also want to set up a receiver and see if that helps as a servo tester may not work as well especially if there is settings on the unit for digital and analog servos.
  The final thing may be servos that are too small and cannot handle the load without straining. I am using Full size Analog servos as I find them to be the most durable, quiet and cost effective.

  Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 25, 2018, 02:00:58 PM
Merry Christmas Glenn,
I have a feeling that the batteries that powered the checker may be down on power and somehow that is causing the problem. I don't have the servos back in yet but they seem to be quiet now. I will let you know.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2018, 02:36:49 PM
Happy Crimble and a Very New Year!

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2018, 04:32:27 PM
Rudder servo and cable-tube installed.
Elevator servo installed in fin. (KISS principle)
Rear upper fuselage sheeting (1/16th inch).
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 25, 2018, 04:41:55 PM
Thanks Michael, Happy New Year.
I think I finally have the flaps working the way I want them to. Now that is done I can get on to the final components that need building, the nacelles.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2018, 05:53:18 PM
That looks really good, Rob.

"Happy Crimble and a Very New Year!" --- did you look it up?

Nose block mostly shaped.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on December 25, 2018, 05:55:38 PM
Gosh you Guys! I need you to build me something beautiful, too!

Merry Crimbo y'all
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 25, 2018, 07:02:10 PM
Just looked it up Michael. Do you have the album?
your build looks great, if I was doing it again I might do just what you did. Build it without the framing. I think you will achieve your goal of light weight and a relatively strait-forward plane. You are right in your earlier post though, it is just slightly more than a scratch build. Still, I am enjoying it as I like coming up with my own solutions to problems. I find it best to size up what I want to do and then let it simmer and percolate for a  day or so. I then can usually come up with a solution.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2018, 08:40:33 PM
I sold my Beatles Christmas records years ago.

Here is a genuine Lennon-McCartney- Harrison-Starr original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxJu5jjFogM

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2018, 08:41:13 PM
Battery hatch completed (except for magnets).

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 25, 2018, 10:11:42 PM
Thank you. Enjoyed listening.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2018, 08:33:51 AM
After some careful consideration, I've decided to use balsa for the cockpit windows. A contrasting adhesive trim colour will simulate windows.

The whole idea of those little sticks between windows, painting the interior, and adding clear plastic just insn't within my KISS strategy.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on December 26, 2018, 10:22:29 AM
Michael,

re: the windows.  Use clear Monokote.  Absolutely the easiest way to make windows.  All the windows on my Norseman were done with clear Monokote.  I added them after covering the fuselage, cutting the clear monokote about 1/8" larger than the windows, sealing the edges first then shrinking them tight.  Even the front windshield was done in clear Monokote.

I will donate the clear Monokote for all 4 projects if you want to try it.  Will bring it New Year's day.

Keep building.  All 3 projects look great. :)   What I love about building with balsa is converting flat sticks and sheets into a 3 dimensional work of art... that hopefully flies.  8)  Can never get that from foam.  Sorry Bruce.



Frank
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2018, 11:06:48 AM
Thanks, Frank, but I'm also concerned about another area from which water will enter the hull.
I'm sticking with balsa.

Work underway.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on December 26, 2018, 11:28:24 AM
Fantastic builds.  I am thoroughly enjoying watching the construction of each aircraft.  I find all very informative and I am learning a lot.  It is important to recognize that there are different ways to 'skin a cat' (sorry to all cat people).

I do however have to respond to a recent post made by @Frank v B stating: Keep building.  All 3 projects look great. :)   What I love about building with balsa is converting flat sticks and sheets into a 3 dimensional work of art... that hopefully flies.  8)  Can never get that from foam.  Sorry Bruce.
[/b]

Frank, I am not snooty about balsa like some people tend to be.  I appreciate people (including myself) who are multi-talented in the use of various forms of materials used in the construction of 3 dimensional flying aircraft. 

Frank, here are just a few links for your reference.  You might wish to try it sometime.  Foam isn't made just for insulation you know!

http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,5636.msg36677.html#msg36677

http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,6084.0.html

http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,6057.0.html

(Sorry Michael, this contribution made to this post was just for the record.  By the way, you build great flying 3 dimensional flying foam aircraft too.)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2018, 01:34:36 PM
Yeah, I like foam and balsa; both make fun flying models.

Anyway, major balsa and glue construction is done!

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2018, 01:53:10 PM
1189 grams; 2 pounds 10 ounces, with 4 servos.

I'd be interested in comparing weight with the other models.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2018, 03:50:35 PM
I took a 20 minute break from the CL415.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 26, 2018, 06:49:12 PM
Wow Michael. You are really getting on. I was very glad you posted so many pictures of building the nacelles, helped a lot, thanks. I built mine today. As so often happens when I have two of something to build the second one takes half the time and turns out twice as good as the first one. So it is with the nacelles, the left one is more square and went together much faster than the right one. I should learn to build the second one first! I thought I had some triangle stock, which is used to finish the top of the nacelles but apparently not, so enough for tonight. Michael, I will weigh my plane tomorrow and let you know. I expect it will be around the 4 pound mark with the sheeting for the wing and extra framing.
Frank, I will happily take you up on your kind offer of clear monocote. I have been trying to figure out how to make good and waterproof windows. Thanks.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 26, 2018, 09:22:16 PM
   Guys they look great!
Michael is just rocking this build.
I hope to start my wing next week, but I do not want to rush my build as I am enjoying the planning as well as building and do not want to forget something that I will not be able to deal with later when it is sealed up. For instance, I will be using mechanical linkages to activate flaps and ailerons and that takes a bit longer to setup.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2018, 09:55:08 AM
Tail "bullet" fairing takes shape.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2018, 10:26:50 AM
Mostly sanded smooth and to size/shape.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on December 27, 2018, 10:40:05 AM
I love the bullet fairing and your choice of materials!!!!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2018, 11:57:35 AM
Rob, do we need decals/graphics?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2018, 10:37:26 AM
Glenn, ...

Rob and I want to order graphics. Are you interested?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2018, 10:37:44 AM
Look here for inspiration!

http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,4354.0.html

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on December 28, 2018, 12:22:19 PM
    Yes I would be interested!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2018, 01:51:45 PM
OK, Rob, order 3 sets please, but with different numbers, if possible.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 28, 2018, 02:02:23 PM
Ok will get a quote and let you know. We want the numbers and the identification (C-GOxx) and the nose numbers. Should I ask her about the stripe?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2018, 02:47:48 PM
Stripe? Sure, ask.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 28, 2018, 06:49:55 PM
Got the servos in the wings, everything works and goes the way it is supposed to go. Nacelles are pretty much finished and I will sheet the top of the wing tomorrow (from the nacelles out, need to leave the centre section open to be able to add the wiring. I need to start working out what motors and ESCs I will use. Thinking maybe Eflite 15s turning a 3 bladed prop. 40 A ESC should be about right I think.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on December 28, 2018, 10:25:30 PM
Looks really nice Rob.

What do you think the finished flying weight will be? 7lbs or so?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 29, 2018, 09:34:10 AM
Thanks Simon. As it sits now it is about 3 pounds. I have yet to sheet the top of the wings, but I don't want to do that until I have the motors and ESCs figured out.  Then I plan to fiberglass it and then paint after that. I am hoping it will come out at around 5 pounds without the batteries, so maybe 6 pounds flying weight?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Crazyflyer on December 29, 2018, 10:10:21 AM
Even the full size ones can hit flag poles!  :'(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnT3sUkK738
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on December 29, 2018, 12:48:14 PM
Check for BJ's name on the flight manifest. ;D ;D

Poor flag pole. ;)

Frank
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: BJROB on December 29, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
It's just a flag ⛳️ pole magnet fatal attraction  ??? ??? ::)
Drawn in by the earths spinning 8) with too much static on th positive to negative earths flag ⛳️ poles
That's my excuse..... landing on the pole? Great pilot skills...😏
Great job on the building it's been great to follow the processes
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2018, 08:36:09 AM
Progressing ...

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2018, 01:00:33 PM
More covering.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2018, 09:58:48 PM
More yellow.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on December 30, 2018, 11:47:34 PM
Looking great Michael.

The rest of you, your builds are similarly great, but not as far along great as Michael's...   ;)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on December 30, 2018, 11:50:53 PM
You're a maniac!  The water is still very stiff where I'm from... and I expect it to be for quite a while longer   ;D

But your plane, like Rob's and Glenn's, is looking fantastic! Very fine work from all of you!

And yes.  Lots of yellow   ;)

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on December 31, 2018, 06:45:32 PM
Good job Michael. You really are knocking it.
I decided to make my winglets detachable. I used a backing of 1/4 inch basswood, drilled with blind nuts. Cap bolts from the outside of the winglet mean I should have much less chance of knocking them off getting the wing in or out of the car. I am going to try and do the same with the pontoons. The hardwood braces inside the wing are glued in, so might be able to do the same kind of thing
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 01, 2019, 07:36:00 PM
So after flying this morning and then going and visiting our Granddaughter, I was in a great mood when I got a chance to get down to my workshop. It was really great to see everyone and fun to actually fly. I find that sometimes when building, things go well, and sometimes things end up getting thrown against the wall. Well, this was one of those rare days when everything, everything, went well. I finished sheeting all the unsheeted bits except the left side of the fuse (but that is really pretty simple compared to the control surfaces and all their little cuts and angles). I did the rough sanding of them and then put on the first coat of light weight spackling, and will sand it tomorrow night when it is dry. The nacelles are now a satisfactory fit, and are waiting for the Eflite power 25s that will arrive at Pinnacle soon. After talking with Rob Pike, I plan to put the ESCs on the bottom of the wing in the centre section. They should be cooled as they will be out in the open. I plan to put the receiver up there too with a couple of pigtails for the elevator and rudder, so when assembling the plane at the field ( or hopefully lake or pond) I will only have two servos to plug in. I have to work out the tip floats as I would like to make them detachable like the winglets are. Bruce suggested I just get a bigger car, but somehow I think making them come off is the better solution (my wife concurs) . Anyway, back to the grind tomorrow. God I envy you retired guys, but the end of March is coming, and then I will join you.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 02, 2019, 08:14:17 PM
Elevator/stabilizer group covered. To match up the red, I covered as accurately as possible, and then added thin stripes to line up the stab/elev.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 03, 2019, 09:33:51 PM
Fuselage edges and seams covered for aesthetics and water-resistance, then more covering.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on January 03, 2019, 10:10:53 PM
Looks great Michael.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 05, 2019, 04:09:20 PM
Thanks, Simon.

More wing covering.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 05, 2019, 06:13:26 PM
Nice work Michael. My pilots showed up for training today. Also mounted pontoons and mounted the wing. Happy, it turned out quite square
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 06, 2019, 03:59:27 PM
Nice pilots!

A bit more work.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 06, 2019, 04:33:23 PM
   Nice work guys!
  I have almost completed the fuselage work and will likely place the port side fuselage sheeting on tomorrow. The wing is about 80% complete now with ailerons, flaps and nacelles pretty complete as well. Photo's just need to be taken to show the progress. I will have to work out the hinges and belcrank locations before I can seal up the top portion of the wing. The servos will be a little tricky and will have to be installed in a manner similar to the Piper Tri-Pacer which has the servo body hanging below the bottom of the wing. But given the location will be within the confines of the fuselage, it really is no issue.
  Here is the start of the left wing panel.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 06, 2019, 05:42:05 PM
impressive job on the red trim.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 06, 2019, 09:57:55 PM
  As promised, a few more photo's showing the wing as it progresses.

  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 07, 2019, 03:22:46 PM
No, the windows aren't blue; that's the reflection of the beautiful blue sky.  :D

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 07, 2019, 06:17:34 PM
Small details ...
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 07, 2019, 07:31:02 PM
Sanding, filler, sanding, water-based poly-urethane, more sanding, more water-based poly-urethane, more sanding, and spray paint.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 08, 2019, 07:46:04 PM
More wing work.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 08, 2019, 08:21:37 PM
It's really starting to take shape.

1500 grams, or about 3 pounds and 5 ounces.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on January 08, 2019, 10:50:47 PM
Very cool!

I'll let you know as soon as the lake is open for float flying   ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on January 10, 2019, 02:19:55 PM
It was SO COOL to see all three CL-415 Water Bombers last night at the January meeting.  They all look so good.

Keep up the great work guys!

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 10, 2019, 08:44:17 PM
Motors mounted, spinning counterclockwise, with rudder/differential steering (right rudder increases left motor throttle; left rudder increases right motor throttle), to help steer on land and water.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 11, 2019, 08:46:09 AM
I have decided to fiberglass the fuse. Bottom is and right side are done in 1 oz cloth, using Zpoxy, which is quite nice to work with, little smell and easily squeegeable. Next need to fill with Canadian Tire auto body filler, sand as much off as I can, and then a coat of sandable primer, again sanding off as much as I can (a little palm sander is great for this I have found). Then paint or ultracote. This way I know the fuse is strong and as watertight as I can make it.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on January 11, 2019, 11:44:55 AM
Good call Rob! Looks great. It's a long time since I used epoxy with fiberglass but I really like it as a finish. Good luck.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 11, 2019, 09:20:14 PM
  Nice work Rob!
The glass is a lot of work, but really worthwhile.
I was roughing in the flaps on my wing. There are a lot of parts to cut and shape, but I have everything in more or less and will make sure things line up before any adhesive touches the wood.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 12, 2019, 06:35:35 PM
I finished the fiberglass of the fuse. Needs to be sanded of course. The problem is none of the LOHs have anything less than 1 1/2 ounce cloth and say they can't get the lighter stuff. I think that is heavier than I need and would like to use lighter. I need 2 yards or 1 or 3/4 ounce so if anyone has extra I would be happy to purchase it from you. I plan to attach the nacelles tomorrow so I can finish sheeting the wing, at least the outboard part of them. Starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Off to see if I can find a rattle can of the correct yellow to match the tail, which is already covered. If not, I will have to remove the covering from it and glass and paint it. Not the end of the world but if I can avoid it I will.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 12, 2019, 07:16:39 PM
Try

http://plasticworld.ca/

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on January 12, 2019, 08:42:02 PM
Rob,

I have most of a square yard of 3/4 oz (I think) fibreglass cloth.  Bought it at one of the swap meets.  Let me know if you want it.

Frank
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 13, 2019, 01:46:06 PM
My essentially finished model weighs just over 4 pounds without a battery, and just under 5 pounds with a battery.

The E-Flite 450 motors that I have require 20+ amps each to produce a total of about 450 watts, which should be ideal for realistic flight, but that's a little too much for the motors, and they get hot within a few seconds.

I've ordered (from AJ Hobby) 2 1020kv E-Flite 480 motors, which are only marginally bigger (so they will fit my model). I use one in a 'warwing' model and it goes straight up, so I think this will be better.

Decals are in transit.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on January 13, 2019, 02:33:19 PM
@Michael   Re: "I've ordered (from AJ Hobby) 2 1020kv E-Flite 480 motors, which are only marginally bigger (so they will fit my model). I use one in a 'warwing' model and it goes straight up, so I think this will be better."


I'm glad to see you have ordered two motors for your beautiful CL-415 and are not going to take your Warwing out of service by removing its motor to be placed in another plane. Excellent decision!  :)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 13, 2019, 07:23:52 PM
Finished fiberglassing the fuse, nacelles and rudder. Wing is ready for final top sheeting as soon as the nacelles are secured to it and the motor wires run through the wing. Then glass the wing and then starts the sanding and filling and sanding and filling and sanding and filling.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 19, 2019, 08:27:37 PM
     Well, it is a long time between posts, but I have been busy with assorted projects.
   I am now in the process of sheeting the rear wing as the control linkages and control surfaces now work. The lighting needs to be completed by running nav lights to the wing tips. Landing lights are run and waiting for locations in the leading edge. I will also be gluing a triangular leading edge which will be sanded to the desired shape. I almost screwed up large by not placing my wing tip float hard point in place before sheeting, but caught myself. If all goes according to plan, I should have the top sheeting finished tomorrow with the wing ready to bolt in place.

  Here are the latest photo's including the the Nacelles.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 28, 2019, 09:52:31 PM
Now with 480 motors and 9/6 slow fly props, 440 watts max power; better than adequate for a 5 pound model.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 29, 2019, 06:23:23 PM
My plane is heavier than Michaels, and so I used Eflite Power 25s. The nacelles are installed and the wing completely sheeted. I had a hard time getting the differential thrust to work. All was good until I changed the airplane type to flaps and then Aux1, which had the second throttle plugged in would stop working as a throttle. Anyway, I ramble. Figured it out and It works well now. Big fowler flaps should slow the plane right down. I have a bit more filling to do around the nacelles and then it will be time to glass the entire wing top and bottom. I am putting the speed controls and rx on the bottom of the wing inside the fuse. This way I only have to hook up the elevator and the rudder to pigtails off the rx. I will put a bead of silicone on the wing to fuse joint and also have some Corrsion X that will waterproof everything. Oh ya, one last thing. When cutting a cable tie, I managed to snip both antenna off the rx, meaning I had to take it apart and resolder them. This build seems full of little things to try your patience.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 29, 2019, 06:34:59 PM
Your model looks amazing, Rob.

I'll copy your idea of mounting most equipment on the bottom of the wing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 30, 2019, 02:38:58 PM
  Looking good Rob!
  My aircraft is moving along now that I have figured out the easiest way to connect the tip floats (should they break off). I used a hard mount with a metal eye,  then connected an 18" leader line from fish tackle which will route through a hole in the wing and attach  directly to a mount on the tip float. This will hopefully prevent the loss of said tip float should it break free on a bad landing due to a side load being applied.  The motors and speed controllers are both installed and functioning. I have chosen to place the esc's in the nacelles and hope this will not come back to haunt me. The top of the wing is completely sheeted now with leading edges being installed. I hope to have the Nacelle coverings installed today which I think means that the aircraft is complete as far as building goes. The wing bolts are are also located and with two 3s 3300 batteries installed in the battery tray balances slightly nose down. Therefore the need for lead in the nose is highly unlikely.  ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 30, 2019, 09:03:16 PM
   Here is the aircraft together. I am very happy as to how it is shaping up.
  Next comes the smoothing and filling, followed by the fibreglassing... then more smoothing and filling..lol :P
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on January 30, 2019, 09:46:11 PM
Looks great Glenn. I seem to have developed a bronchial infection, and have been feeling very under the weather, so no more progress for me to this point.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 31, 2019, 11:28:04 AM
   Thanks Rob,

  Sorry to hear that you are still sick. Rest up and get well soon!

  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on January 31, 2019, 02:07:29 PM
All the 215s look fantastic!  Keep plugging away.  The water bomber is a fun model to own as it's easy to fly and performs from the water very well.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on January 31, 2019, 07:52:45 PM
Nice 4-blade props, Glenn.

Where did you get them, and what will you be doing for spinners?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on January 31, 2019, 08:48:19 PM
    Nice try Rob, These are 415's ;D

   Thanks though. Very fun and challenging build!

   Hey Michael, These are FMS 4 blade props that I found at Pinnacle. Not sure if they are big enough, but I have larger 3 blade props just in case.
  For spinners, I will modify some two blade spinners by cutting two extra holes.

   Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on February 01, 2019, 10:28:12 PM
Quote from: electroflyer on January 31, 2019, 08:48:19 PM
    Nice try Rob, These are 415's ;D 

Oh ya.  Well, never mind.  The 415's fly like CRAP    ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on February 02, 2019, 09:50:56 AM
Ok Rob, we'll take the wingletts off and then it will fly like yours.

Finished applying the cloth to the top of the wing.Use finishing epoxy and am happy with the results. Found another use for toilet paper. After squeegeing out as much resin as possible the toilet paper does a great job of sopping up anything that is left over. I used this on the left wing portion and it is the smoothest unsanded surface I have ever attained. I put clamps on the overhanging cloth to make sure it adheres to theleading and  trailing edges
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on February 02, 2019, 04:36:48 PM
   Very nice work Rob!

   I am almost ready to start glassing the wing and fuselage. I am taking my time though as I would like to take care of as many imperfections now as opposed to later when it is much harder to change.
  I almost forgot to put a hard point in the rear part of the wing for the tip floats. The solution was to open the outer most wing rib with a 1/4" (or less) slot. This allowed the piece of plywood to slide in very nicely...close call ::)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on February 04, 2019, 10:39:42 PM
Ok, so good day today. I have finished fiberglassing everything but the elevators which will be  a 15 minute job. The wing felt heavy to me, but then I figure it does have 2 power 25 motors, the receiver and 2 60 amp esc attached to it. Anyway, i put it all together tonight so I could weigh it and see how it was doing. It comes in at 6.4 pounds without batteries or props but with everything else. I feel I may be able to fly this with 2 3s 2400s. It is not painted yet either of course. I am projecting a flying weight all up of 7.5 to 8 pounds, quite a bit more hefty than Michaels, but it does have bigger motors, bigger ESCs and props and flaps and all the linkages and extra servos for them, and it is completely fiberglassed. All the building and engineering is done and it has had it's sanding before priming. I cannot do the paint here, but Rob Pike kindly offered his attic workroom if I want to drive to Port Perry, which I hope to do next weekend if it works out. I have found this build to have been challenging but rewarding, and like anytime I build a plane, I learn techniques of how to build the next one better.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on February 05, 2019, 01:07:56 PM
Don't let Michael scare you  ;D

7.5 to 8 pounds will be great.  I think mine is around 8 lbs.  I think Colin's is too.

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on February 05, 2019, 02:38:55 PM
Congrats Rob and completing your build. I can't wait to see the finished, painted model.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on February 05, 2019, 09:22:46 PM
Rob, are you coming to the meeting next week, and if so, will you bring the decals?

How much do we owe you?

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on February 05, 2019, 10:47:33 PM
Hi Michael,
Yes, in fact tonight I separated the two big sheets that contained all the graphics into 3 individual sets. I will bring them to the meeting. Callie did a nice job on them.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on February 07, 2019, 10:48:30 PM
So all the building is done, everything fits and it has all been sanded after the glassing. Going to Rob Pike's to spray the coats of primer on the weekend. Only thing left to finish are the cowl mounting blocks and faring the cowls to the nacelles and  the spray rails on the nose. I did have a moment of panic. I had glued the horizontal stab in place with epoxy, let it set for about 2 hours and then went to check. Yikes, the wing and stab did not line up when I sighted down the plane. WTF, it seemed fine when I trial fitted it before glueing it. Then, thank God, I noticed that the right wing bolt was not done all the way up and so the wing was not seated properly in the saddle . I tightened it and everything lines up perfectly. Looking forward to finishing this up as I have an Ultra Sport 60 I want to finish, and I have to fashion a cowl, hopefully out of fiberglass, for it. Also bought an Kyosho Extra 300 ARF I would like to have flying in the spring.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on February 07, 2019, 11:07:04 PM
  Rob,
You did a great job on your CL415! These planes have been a lot of work but we'll worth it. I know the day we get to fly them will be very special.

   Well done!
Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on February 08, 2019, 08:10:36 AM
Thanks Glenn. I feel building this plane has taught me more than most builds I have done in the past. I am looking forward to, hopefully, 5 of these beasts in the air at once, if we can convince Colin and Piker to come out. And you are certainly correct, the day we maiden them all will be quite an event.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on February 08, 2019, 10:56:23 AM
Wild horses couldn't keep me away!!!   ;D

But in reality it's the wild wife I need to worry about   :o

Lookin' great, Rob. 
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2019, 04:39:27 PM
I tried installing landing gear, but finally decided I was unhappy with it. It has been removed.

Rob got us graphics, and I started applying them. They are not perfect, regarding the size and shape of the model, but they do a great job in making the plane look more scale.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2019, 05:26:58 PM
My plane is basically finished and ready for flying.

Total weight including battery is 2.3 kilos, or 81 ounces, or 5 pounds and one ounce.

Assuming the maiden flight goes well, I'll do more decorations.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Gregor77 on February 17, 2019, 12:03:03 PM
Wow, looks great!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on February 18, 2019, 04:42:50 PM
  Very nice!
  I really like the decals as well.
  Here is my 415. a few pictures outside today. Everything is glassed except the top side of Ailerons and Flaps. I will continue when I get back from vacation. In the meantime. the epoxy can fully cure.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on February 18, 2019, 04:45:24 PM
  By the way, the dark spots are Walnut coloured filler. my normal product of course was out of stock. ;D
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on February 19, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
Hey Glenn.  That glass cloth needs a bit of smoothing  ;D

Keep up the good work guys (except Michael who's already finished).  I can hear the ice melting as we speak... well... maybe not.  But soon!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2019, 02:18:44 PM
I wasn't exactly happy with my decals, so, with encouragement from Robert Pike, I've decided to make some changes. The photos here show the first change. The stripes weren't the right length and curves for my plane, so I used Monokote trim to make it look better. The colours and shapes aren't perfect, but I think it looks better.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on February 24, 2019, 11:18:43 AM
More details.

Windows, doors and 'retracted' landing gear.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on February 24, 2019, 11:50:17 AM
Michael,

It's amazing how the small details like the doors, windows (portholes?) and (fake) retracts make it look like the real thing.  Thanks for the "Ontario" sponsorship.
Great build!

Frank
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on February 24, 2019, 03:47:17 PM
More detail on the top.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Wingnutz on February 27, 2019, 08:21:20 AM
Congratulations to the Three Amigos who built/are building the 415s!Over the last two days, I've read the whole thread and once again, I've been inspired to build by TEMAC  builders...probably never more so than by this thread. In one way I'm sorry I missed the build...in another way I'm completely intimidated by the thought of trying to keep up with you three building machines! Great job!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on February 27, 2019, 08:59:54 AM
Yes, @Wingnutz I agree. It is very inspiring to follow the projects, repairs, builds and the talent we have in the club.

NOTE: Share your projects with us.  They really are inspirational. They encourage us to acknowledge that this hobby is more than just people flying model airplanes. 

We build, we crash, we repair, we build, we crash, we repair...  and have fun sharing our experience/knowledge or lack there of with our cronies. We also purchase ready to fly planes, fly them, crash them and repair them... (I don't want to leave anybody out.)

That's what makes this hobby great!  Share it!

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on March 03, 2019, 05:28:06 PM
I'm working on the spray deflectors.

I painted these with primer, then sanded, and then enamel spray paint. The designated 'insides' were not painted as heavily and the wood grain was left alone so glue wood have something onto which to stick.

I cut of some covering, and glued them carefully into place.

Then more covering was removed and Windex-soaked balsa was glued on the protruding bottom insides. The Windex allows the balsa to be bent without cracking.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on March 04, 2019, 12:54:23 PM
Michael, your plane looks great. I just returned from Jamaica and will resume finishing tonight. Thanks for doing all the detail work that I will now copy!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on March 04, 2019, 04:38:17 PM
   Nice Michael!
  My aircraft is about to get the spray rail/chine as well. I need some warmer weather to complete the priming and smoothing. Then comes the colour. All parts are built and fiberglassed.
In the meantime, My new project is a 100" Airtronics OlympicII which I bought last year. Given all the planning required for construction of the CL415, this glider is a breeze! Wing is almost complete. Tail feathers and fuselage will probably be almost complete tomorrow!

    Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on March 04, 2019, 09:58:06 PM
The wood is carefully cut and sanded and filed to a triangular shape (right side done; left side not done yet, in the first photo).

Then (acrylic) painted carefully with almost exact matching colour, and then sealed with a glossy water-based clear-coat.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on March 09, 2019, 09:27:17 AM
Michael, you plane looks amazing. I am looking forward to you Glenn and I maidening the three planes (maybe at Rob Pikes place?). Anyway, i have found a way to make any plane you are building seem much larger. All you have to do is fiberglass the thing and then wet sand it with 400 wet or dry. You would be amazed how big a plane seems to get when you are sanding down glazing compound. I think I will regain use of my right arm in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on March 09, 2019, 04:25:28 PM
I'd prefer maidening from land.

If you guys insist, give me notice to waterproof my plane.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on March 09, 2019, 06:00:21 PM
We'll see what we do, but you probably should waterproof it now so even if we don't maiden them over water, you will be ready to go when we do go.
I have been working on my plane after a wonderful week in Jamaica. It is now all wet sanded and has the white primer on it. I think it is finally ready for it top coat of yellow, but I am going to wait until it warms up and I can do it outside.It is nice to finally see clearly the light at the end of the tunnel. My next build is going to be a Brian Taylor designed FW190. I ordered the plans and short kit from Sarik last week.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on March 10, 2019, 06:22:40 PM
You know how when you are building something, some days are great and others not? Well today was a not. As one of the final jobs on the plane I wanted to make sure the motors were both pointed in about the same direction with the same thrust line. I took a couple of pieces or 6mm aluminum tube and put it on the motor shaft of each motor. Sure enough, a foot from the front of the motors, the pipes were farther apart that they were at the hub. I used wood screws to secure the motors to the firewall, which as it turns out was a mistake. This is were things started to go sideways. I took the right motor off and used washers to try and make it point in roughly the same direction as the left one. Long story short, after adding washers and putting the motor on and off trying to get it right, I ended up stripping the screw holes in the firewall. Tried to add another piece of plywood to the back of the firewall but just not enough room to get in there and do it. Hmmm, maybe it will just be alright with 2 screws still holding. After some thought as to how long this guy has taken to put together I though I should not chance a motor tearing loose in mid flight. No option I could think of other than to cut the bottom of the nacelle open and use nuts on the back of screws to secure everything. What a pain! Anyway, got it done and the glazing compound covering the opened up nacelle should be just about ready to sand, but that is tomorrow.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on March 12, 2019, 11:13:38 AM
The plane is looking nice, Rob.  I would not deny that painting takes more work, but at least it won't wrinkle.   ;D

Michael, yours looks awesome too!  Those spray rails will not fall off!!  Maybe you should fly from the snow before it's too late!



Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on March 12, 2019, 06:00:13 PM
Finally all the sanding and filling is done. I think it was worth the work as I am happy with the way the topcoat appears. I sprayed the bottom of the wing, which is the part of the plane that has the most blemishes due to the servo doors and all, and even it looks presentable. I am off tomorrow so I hope to get more painting done. On the home stretch!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on March 25, 2019, 08:35:24 AM
I got around to painting the hull yesterday. It was mild enough to do it outside. The paint I used on it has to dry for 48 hours (at least) before reapplying another coat, which the plane needs, but it looks pretty good. I guess all those hours of glazing and sanding were worth it.
I also decided to do some work on the Tigercat. It was all blue and when I flew it last year it seemed like it would be very easy to get disoriented with it. I removed the nacelles and horizontal stabs and sprayed them first with a white primer and then with yellow in the hopes the plane will be easier to see.
I also got the wood to start on a 60 size Brian Taylor FW190. When I was a kid, my dad built one for us to fly (Ukie) but then gave or traded it before I flew it. I always remembered it and wished that I had had a chance to fly it. I am thinking I may build the wing now and do the fuse and all in the fall.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on April 11, 2019, 05:52:55 PM
  We had a fun night at the meeting last night. We also managed to get the three CL415's together for a bit of a show and tell and I think they all looked pretty fine. Given that all three were started in December, it shows what can be accomplished with sharing ideas and giving each other a kick in the pants to keep working. Overall, despite the issues around the short kit, I must say that these issues are easily resolved by a little ingenuity and planning.
  Here are a few pictures of the Canadair/Bombardier CL415's water bombers. 271,272 and 273!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on April 11, 2019, 06:00:22 PM
They all looked fantastic.  Each of you should be proud of your CL-415.  I can't wait to see them at the field and in the air.  Bravo!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on April 11, 2019, 06:49:27 PM
I think I have finally finished building this plane. Did all the control rods tonight and fixed the wheels so they are both the same height now. Added the stripes. Like Glenn says, it was a challenging build but I like that because  every time I build something challenging, there is something I learn for the next build. The plane came out like me, a bit heavier than I wish. Flying weight with 2 graphine 3s 2200s is 8.8 pounds. about half a pounds heavier than I was aiming for. I think it should still be ok, it does have big flaps to help with landings. I really want to see this thing on the water. I was thinking I might try and find a pond somewhere to taxi it. It has differential thrust, so the motors are in sinc with the rudder and that is how I will turn it. Now back to the FW 190.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on April 11, 2019, 08:57:51 PM
  Very Nice!!  :)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on April 12, 2019, 05:44:34 AM
Congrats Rob!  :)
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on April 15, 2019, 02:00:03 PM
Wow!  So cool to see all three 415's reaching the finish line.

Great job boys!!!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on May 05, 2019, 04:57:03 PM
2 successful maiden flights so far. Despite the weight differences between Glenn's model and my model, both planes require down-elevator trim, nose weight and down thrust.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on May 05, 2019, 05:36:48 PM
The pictures don't do them justice. 

They both looked fantastic outdoors with natural light and fauna surrounding them. (Next time avoid the fence - talk to Andy)  They flew beautifully, majestically, realistically and looked truly like the actual aircraft in flight.  They flew fine.

If I had seen smoke on the horizon, I wouldn't have given their presence at second thought.  I would have been going to find their water source to and watch them fill up.

Bravo guys.  Now I can't wait to see three of them together at the field.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on May 05, 2019, 08:54:24 PM
They look amazing! Congrats both of you.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on May 06, 2019, 08:48:05 PM
   Thanks guys,
  Yesterday was great fun, we were able to get both CL's flying with normal teething pains, but they survived and looked pretty cool. Here is Michael coming in for a super smooth landing.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on May 07, 2019, 10:04:31 AM
Congrats, guys!  I'm glad they fly as expected, and look so cool.

I just realized that whenever we see the water bombers on the news, there's always three or four in line cycling through the water pickup and drops.  The 3 to 5 models flying together will recreate that awesome dance perfectly!

My 215 will represent the old school version of the full size as well as old school in model form  ;D  It'll be 22 years old this summer   :o
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on May 11, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
I added a few ounces of weight in the nose, and it flew much better, but still climbed with power.

The elevator had a lot of down trim just so the plane could fly level, likely due to the very substantial positive wing incidence (forward wing tiled up too much).

After several discussions with Glenn, who is experiencing similar challenges, we came up with a simple solution (we hope).

I built a small structure to reduce the wing incidence, (a quarter-inch higher at the back where the wing sits on the fuselage, so the wing is not tilted up so much)) and will likely need less down trim, and the plane probably won't climb so much with power with the new wing-stabilizer set-up.

The photos should be self-explanatory.


Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on May 14, 2019, 10:44:45 AM
  As Michael mentioned above, the CL415 we built has an incidence that always appeared to be too extreme. The first flight all but proved this. My model was balanced on the c of g and immediately upon take off started to climb at an extreme rate. I added down trim and throttled back, this stabilized the aircraft, but whenever I throttled up the pitch angle would change radically. The landing occurred without incident, but the model required changes to be a fun flyer at faster speeds. I added nose weight to mine which I thought would solve the problem, but after watching Michael fly his successfully on several occasions, I thought he had licked the problem. Upon discussion though, he acknowledged that he felt that it was still not right. After checking his plane, the radical down trim proved that the CL was not quite right. I told Michael that I was going to trim my wing saddle down by a quarter of an inch at the leading edge which I felt would bring the main wing into better alignment. Michael chose to lift the trailing edge by a quarter inch (accomplishes the same thing). I actually trimmed the saddle down to 3/16" but have a little space left to continue should it be required. The aircraft actually looks much better sitting on the stand. I am now looking forward to the next flight!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on May 18, 2019, 05:41:20 PM
What a difference!

The plane has just had its' 5th and 6th flights, and with the modification, it flew superbly!

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on May 27, 2019, 09:03:11 PM
Ouch!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on May 27, 2019, 09:10:14 PM
Oh no, Rob. I'm so sorry.

Do you know what happened?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on May 27, 2019, 09:46:27 PM
Is it repairable?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: battlestu on May 28, 2019, 08:18:37 AM
ouch very sorry to see that
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Oscar on May 28, 2019, 08:26:44 AM
 :'( :'( :'(

So sorry to see that.  Did you find out what happen?
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on May 28, 2019, 08:59:51 AM
We flew the plane on Sunday and it veered to the left so bad it took all the rudder and aileron trim, and after takeoff I passed the transmitter to Glenn, all his skill just to get the thing back down in once piece. I took note of the deflection of the flying surfaces, centred the trims and then mechanically put them back to what they had been when it landed. This should have, in my mind, made it fly relatively strait. Yesterday, I took off and at first all was good, it climbed out well and had lots of power. Then, when I tried to turn east (took off going north) nothing happened. Full right aileron and it just flew strait on going north. In fact it started to turn west, even with full right aileron. I decided to circle west and try and come back over the field, hopefully going above the trees on the western barrier of the field. Glenn and BJ were yelling for me to pull up, and God help me I was holding full up but it would not climb. It missed the first clump of trees, but there is a big dead bunch and it shredded itself through them. The right wing from just past the nacelle was sheared off, and the wing bolts gave way so the fuselage continued on crashing nose first onto the field north of pilot stands, in the farmers area. The plane is beyond repair.
The question of why the plane was not controlable will haunt me for a long time. I found that the left aileron servo and the elevator servo were both stripped, but whether that happened on impact of it they contributed to the loss I will never know. I did notice that the vertical stab was not exactly strait, but I figured rudder trim would overcome this, and it did the day before. I know as pilots we have to take these things in stride. Crashing is part of the sport and is one of the aspects that makes it exciting, because we all know that there is a possibility on every flight, we might end up with little pieces of plane. But this one is harder than some. The kit was a bit of a bitch to build with sketchy plans, and took about 5 months to complete. I really came to like the look of the plane and I wish I could have saved it.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on May 28, 2019, 09:23:24 AM
Re: "I wish I could have saved it."

So do we.   :'( 
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: sihinch on May 28, 2019, 09:36:04 AM
Hey Rob, I really do feel your disappointment and frustration.  And I know that you know it is part of the hobby.

For my last few crashes I have tried to focus on the fun and enjoyment that I got from building or painting the plane, despite crashing it.  So maybe in a few days, you can look back on the 5 months of enjoyment and challenge you got from building it, despite the crash.

I know it is still a bugger though!

I'm sorry.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on May 28, 2019, 02:02:24 PM
Oh man!  That sucks.  I'm sorry for the crash.  Crap!

I know it looks like a total loss to you right now, but I can tell you from experience that there's a lot of good parts there and with a little bit of piecing back together it's start looking like new again.  Think of the time it would take you to rebuild all those good parts compared to piecing the bits back together or even rebuilding part, like the right wing.  It's DEFINITLY repairable and WELL worth the little bit of effort. 

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on May 28, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
Thanks for the words of encouragement, but I don't think the picture I posted really does not show the extent of the damage Rob. What is left of the hull is spread open like a big pea pod. the sheared off wing is just a mess, plywood spars fractured, sheeting  a mess. The tail and elevators are pretty much intact. Honestly, with the experience of building this one, I think it would be faster to just build a whole new one. I might do that next winter, but I will wait and see how Glenn and Michael make out. We feel the plan is fundamentally flawed in that as per the plans the plane has 4 degrees of positive incidence and the GC is way off too. We all had to change that by about 1/4 of an inch. But quite honestly, right now I have put everything in a box and am waiting for the plane to fix itself. I know this happens because Frank VB says so.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: electroflyer on May 28, 2019, 04:22:47 PM
   Yes Rob, it sucks! It could easily have been mine the day before. The fact is, I do not know how I was able to retain control of my CL415 when both ailerons went into a violent flutter with the subsequent partial on one side and total detachment on the other. I can only surmise that the differential throttle and large fin and rudder kept mine from the same fate. Turns out that I was correct. The Great planes Hinge material is not adhered properly and sheds the fiberglass binding. As a result, I have replaced the hinges with the flat nylon and metal pin style, they are staked and ca'd in place. I have also changed the horn to a conventional style horn to have more controlled throw and if need be, I may counter weight the Ailerons if the flutter rears its ugly head again.

  As for your plane, many parts are salvageable, it is only a total right off if you make it so. Bruce and several others can attest to the total destruction of my Ercoupe two summers ago in the cornfield, That was the same plane you saw flying yesterday!

  Glenn
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on May 28, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
Rob,

Painful!

Picking up on Glenn's comment whether it is repairable:

1) experts crash in the fewest pieces possible.  I count 6 pieces.  Relatively expert! :)
2) Let's divide and conquer.  I will offer to re-build the wing if you paint it.  That leaves you to tackle the fuse.  That's about 3 pieces each.

Remember the golden rule of fixing a crashed airplane  Put all the pieces in a corner of your workshop and it will start to fix itself. ;)

Frank

ps: I learned many a lesson over the years when there was an unexpected trim change on a plane.  Bring it down immediately and do not fly again until you have figured it out.  Last Sunday I flew my Hanger 9 P-51 and the trim changed immediately from the last flight.  I did an immediate downwind landing.  A connector had jammed between the aileron torque rod and the wing mount saddle. 

I have had trim changes caused as well by 2) a loose servo (servo pushes up when deflected one way) 3) a stripped servo horn and a wrong sized horn 4) a loose and cracked aileron horn. 5) a stripped gear inside the servo.  Stripped servo gears are especially dangerous because they usually behave properly around neutral and properly resist you stressing the surface but when fully deflected and it reaches the stripped portion, the pressure on the servo will neutralize the gear setting so when you let the stick go, it now causes a full deflection the other way.  Alaways put your best servos on the ailerons and elevator.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on May 28, 2019, 06:20:16 PM
Frank, that's very nice of you.

**********

My 2 cents:

Anything can be repaired: Consider my Adrian Page Piper Cub which suffered a near total destruction after a radio failure in Kingston a few years ago. I rebuilt it, and then a couple years ago, broke the wing in three pieces and the fuselage in several pieces, and rebuilt it again. Most people would not have rebuilt it in either circumstance.

That being said, the model was (and is still) a fantastic flyer, so I was motivated to rebuild. Our CL415s are challenging to fly, but I'm convinced they can be tamed and transformed into stable and reliable models.

If you really like the model, try to fix/rebuild it. Start by making one glue joint. Then make a new rib or former where needed. Brace a few repair joints. It may take many hours, but it can be done.

If you don't want to tackle what seems to be an overwhelming challenge, then don't. Just save the pieces in a bag in case you want to try someday.

There's lots of other models out there. You did replace your built-up Spitfire with a better and cheaper ARF.

Just don't get discouraged. Enjoy the aspects of the hobby that make you happy. We all still love you!  ;D

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on May 28, 2019, 06:49:09 PM
so I have not thrown anything out, it is all in a big plastic container. I have a couple other projects underway just now, a Sarik FW190 and also a 60 size Ultra Sport that I bought from Athol. He built the fuse and wing about 20 years ago, and did a beautiful job of construction. I have to build all the flying surfaces and fashion a hatch as the plane was designed for nitro. And of course install everything. It has mechanical retracts that I have to work out. But I just love my Ultra Sport 40 size, and would like to get the 60 in the air this year. I found a canopy that will work for it at the Aurora Swap meet for free. The CL will linger in it's plastic box for a bit. Frank, thanks so much for the offer to rebuild the wing. I will willingly take you up on that if I decide to try and fix it. And thank you guys for all your suggestions and support. It's what makes TEMAC the best RC club in the world!
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Frank v B on May 28, 2019, 08:48:57 PM
Rob,

Two comments- 
1)  Michael re-built the Cub with a hundred pieces.  You only have 6! ;)
2) rewrite your comment "I will willingly take you up on that if when I decide to try and fix it."  None of this IF-$hit. ;D

Frank


Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: piker on May 28, 2019, 10:46:41 PM
Great encouragement guys!

It's true.  Very disheartening, especially on a new airplane that took so much time to build, and for this to happen when you just want to get on with other projects.  But I have faith it WILL go back together again with surprisingly little effort, compared to the build in the first place.

As another point of reference, you saw my Sandringham this winter.  Still not finished but very close.  I had written that plane off when it went in, but very quickly I decided it was worth rebuilding.  It was split open and crumpled and the wing was broken in half.  The repair started with glueing one bit to another, and before I knew it, it was starting to get its shape back again.  It's actually very satisfying to see a plane come back to life and eventually look as good as new.

Also, remember the hard fast rule of model airplane building.  They always fly better after their first repair.  You'll just get yours out of the way early   ;D

Let the plane settle for a bit while you work on other projects, but DO decide that you will repair it.  Then one day you'll go into your shop and take a look at the old bird and the desire to have it back will cause you to stick a couple of pieces together, then another.  Before you know it you'll be on a roll and having fun.

Robert
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on May 30, 2019, 09:00:30 PM
Last weekend.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on May 30, 2019, 09:01:16 PM
Latest issue of Model Airplane News magazine.

Bittersweet.

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: bweaver on May 30, 2019, 11:02:51 PM
What a great picture of the three planes together.  A great project by all.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: octagon on May 31, 2019, 10:23:09 AM
I forgot I sent that picture to them. They never contacted me to say they were using it. God I wish I could have saved that plane.
Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Oscar on August 14, 2019, 09:18:36 AM
Earlier I had an opportunity to join Bruce, Frank and Glenn to fly at the Lake Scugog Float Flying club.

Here is the video I took when Glenn flew his CL-415. 

https://youtu.be/YOPeSXFILHo

Title: Re: CL-415 group-build thread
Post by: Michael on July 31, 2020, 09:33:46 PM
My plane finally maidened off water at Scugog-Flyers, Port Perry.

Photos by David K.