Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Topic started by: Crazyflyer on October 20, 2016, 01:20:08 PM

Title: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 20, 2016, 01:20:08 PM
Hi All, I am leading a mini quad racer build group this winter.
I have put together a list of parts and prices.
I would like for all of us to use the same flight control board if possible to make the programming more consistent, I have chosen one that is stable and has a lot of setup information, the latest and greatest F4 boards may not have good support).
As mentioned in the past, the difference between a starter drone racer and an advanced one is mostly in the programming and in the quality of the parts. (we can program the board to be easier to fly like an old Cadillac, and once you are more confident we can reprogram it to be extremely agile and quick like an F1 car)
As long as you buy a decent frame, you can start out with cheaper components and update them as needed.
I was able to source as much as possible from two local vendors (Rotorgeeks & NG Hobbies) and I have sorted through their inventory and chosen items that are similarly priced as Bangood & Hobbyking. This way, you can always drop by their shop if you have questions or need replacements.
You may be able to find certain cheaper parts but honestly you will end up hating them and your money will be wasted. For example you can get cheaper antennas, however the reception will be horrible and you will feel like you wasted money.
Below are the parts list for the quad only ($271 for the quad + receiver + FPV kit $116) for a little over $400 you will get a very good drone racer with FPV.
In terms of video receivers, goggles or monitors, I will look for different options, expect to start around $100 for a small monitor with a video receiver.

----

Frame: $55 ($34.95USD + shipping & duty) https://www.spaceonefpv.com/collections/drones/products/f1-x-formula-one-220-x-edition?variant=13545531270

Motors:
Good: ($91 for 4) http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_266_272&products_id=1490#.WAjxXsnx3zM
Very good: (131.96 for 4) http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=18_46&product_id=549 (must use better esc's)
(not worth getting cheaper, otherwise they will need regular replacement and cost more over time)

ESC's:
Decent: ($52.76 for 4): http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34_43&product_id=457
Good: ($89.76 for 4): http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34_43&product_id=315
(can't get cheaper than the first one)

Flight control board:
$32.12 http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_212_293&products_id=1579#.WAj0A8nx3zM

Power distribution board:
$7.77: http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_212_294&products_id=1525#.WAj0vsnx3zM

Spectrum PPM Satellite:
$18.48: http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34&product_id=416
FRSky XSR:
$36.48: http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=469&search=xsr

FPV Kit (camera, video transmitter & antenna):
Good: $116.16 http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_32&product_id=593
(I may be able to find cheaper parts that work but the video quality will be affected and you will not enjoy your experience)

Extras:
Antenna extension $6
12ga Power cable + XT60 plug $5
Longer motor screws $5
Motor Lock nuts $6
Propellers $3 per set
Buzzer $7

$271 + receiver + FPV kit $116 + taxes (... maybe I can make a cash deal to avoid taxes).

Whoever is interested, I can purchase everything myself and probably get a better bulk price (I have a good relationship with both local vendors). For the frame, I will combine all the orders together to lessen the shipping cost.
Please let me know who wants to participate and what parts you want me to order (if you want different parts, please include those as well, if they are available from the local vendors, I may be able to get a better cash price).

I am happy to coach you with flying as well, I may setup one of my quads for that.

Stephan

PS: for new drone pilots I recommend 3S batteries. Most people use 1300-1500MaH with high c rating. A gentle flight will last 4-5 mins, hard flight closer to 3 mins. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18207__Turnigy_nano_tech_1300mAh_3S_45_90C_Lipo_Pack.html is cheap and very decent, some people say that they lose their strength in the 2nd year. I have been happy with them, although I now use 4s batteries and just getting into 6s. You can use larger packs as well if you have them but I would suggest to stay below 1800Mah.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: thehaze on October 21, 2016, 09:34:47 PM
I'm interested.

Let's chat!
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: sihinch on October 21, 2016, 10:20:58 PM
I'm in! Thanks Stephan & Eric.

I'd be very please with you trying to do a bulk order for us. It's a very kind offer.

I'd take a frame, the flight controller, power board and the lower spec ESC and motors (not quite ready for the high spec stuff, thanks!) I'd also go FrSky on the Rx, but you want us to get that?

I probably have FPV stuff I can add already.

Thanks again! I'll stay posted to see what works out....
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 22, 2016, 07:40:12 AM
Sounds good Simon, I can get you the FRSky module as well.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 22, 2016, 07:59:48 AM
Hi Guys, I need to order the frames ASAP as it may take up to a month to receive.
Below is the quad I am in the process of building using the frame I am suggesting.
The base of the frame is 4.5mm which is very thick compared to the 3mm which was a standard 2 years ago, but it also means it is very strong (although nothing is unbreakable!).
Please let me know asap if you want the frame, even if you want just the frame and nothing else. When I ordered this frame I paid $20 shipping just for one frame, I am hoping to save you guys shipping cost by dividing the shipping.
This price is very very good, most decent frames start at $60 USD.

Stephan
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: battlestu on October 22, 2016, 10:19:25 PM
count me in for a frame... need to see what is usable off the old quad before order more stuff

Greg
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 22, 2016, 10:23:11 PM
OK so I have 4 frames to be ordered. I will be ordering them on Monday to ensure we get them on time for the build.
If there is anyone else, please let me know.
Stephan
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: sihinch on October 22, 2016, 11:13:33 PM
Stephan

Can I suggest that you let me do a Tickler tomorrow, to tell everyone about the build and ensure we cover everyone who may be interested, and then maybe order mid week.

I'm sure you could go over the principles of the build and how the components work during the first build class.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 23, 2016, 09:42:27 PM
Here is what I will go through during the "Evil Mini Quad Build Class":

-   Explanation of the components of a mini quad
-   What tools you will need (some will be supplied during the build but feel free to bring your own if you have)
-   How to prepare the frame and how to put it together
-   Soldering the components (I will give a small lesson on soldering)
-   Understanding how to program the quad using BetaFlight and BL-Heli
-   Understanding FPV and 5.8GHz video transmission
-   Flying lessons in the cold!!

Tools you will need:
Soldering iron, soldering flux, 1mm solder, helping hands (alligator clips on a stand), band-aids (for when you burn yourself!) tweezers, wire strippers, small needle nose pliers, x-acto knife, small screw driver set, 8mm socket wrench, 2mm & 1.5mm Allen wrench (one that looks like a screw driver), tweezers (the ones that stay closed), electrical tape, hot glue gun (more band-aids for when you burn yourself with hot glue and Polysporin after you realize the soldering burn is still there!! ), zip ties, more zip ties, a USB to mini USB cable (same as what you use to charge an android cell phone) to connect your computer to your quad.

Please note that I am not an expert on this but I have enough knowledge to build a quad that flies in about 3-4 hours and repair it after I crash due to pilot error!!

Stephan
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: thehaze on October 24, 2016, 01:09:28 PM
3-4 hours.. that's pretty impressive. I've seen people build stuff that didn't last 3-4 minutes.

And the good news is that there's hardly any gluing to do. So I won't be peeling CA off my fingers for the next few days.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 24, 2016, 04:10:05 PM
My first build took over 10 hours and I crashed within 10 seconds! ...actually it was 5 seconds  :'(
The hard part of these builds is figuring out the flight controller (where to connect everything on this tiny little circuit board).
If you find the correct information, then it doesn't take long. I have had the experience of buying a Motolab Cyclone which is a very good FC but there was very little info on setting it up. Hence the reason a chose a very popular flight controller for this build.
Should be fun, I just wish we could do a full weekend class so that we can get everyone flying quickly!
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: sihinch on October 24, 2016, 04:13:30 PM
I would look at it another way Stephan - go slow so you can fill the Wednesday evening class all winter!!! Lol
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: tuck on October 25, 2016, 11:41:47 AM
Hi order a frame for me too.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 26, 2016, 09:51:39 AM
Hi All, I am about to order 5 Space One frames by noon today.
Anyone else interested??
Stephan
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 26, 2016, 01:40:26 PM
Ok I just ordered 5 frames (Simon, Mike, Greg, Tuck & Eric). With shipping and the CAD exchange from Paypal, they each came out to $53.48 (+ Duty/tax depending of if I get hit with it)

Below is a picture of 3D printed canopy designed specifically for this frame, printed by one of the guys I fly with. He would only charge about $15 each, the material is actually flexible, and I believe he has 7 colours.

Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: sihinch on October 26, 2016, 01:48:59 PM
Let's get some! They look great.

Thank you Stephan.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: battlestu on October 26, 2016, 02:16:30 PM
awesome... can't wait :)
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Candu on October 26, 2016, 05:24:26 PM
Stephan, If you are doing bulk purchase for the flight controller, I'm interested in getting one. I want to upgrade my Trifecta's (mini tricopter) NAZA32 version5 FC.

Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 26, 2016, 07:55:46 PM
Hi Frank, sounds good. I will let the group know before ordering the electronics. Rotorgeeks is actually coming out in a few weeks with a brand new flight controller that he has been testing all summer that I may be able to get a good price on, and I know who to ask to help setup. If not I will probably suggest the F3 from the beginning of this thread.
The Naze32 V5 is actually still a very stable board, better than the V6. But the processor is slow in relation to boards these day.

Quote from: Candu on October 26, 2016, 05:24:26 PM
Stephan, If you are doing bulk purchase for the flight controller, I'm interested in getting one. I want to upgrade my Trifecta's (mini tricopter) NAZA32 version5 FC.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Candu on October 27, 2016, 10:16:52 AM
Thanks Stephan. I'm planning to re-use the NAZA V5 on a fixed wing to try out the iNAV firmware.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on October 31, 2016, 06:12:23 AM
If anyone is interested, Banggood has a good deal on FPV goggles.
I am not sure how good they are but for the price it is a good deal:

http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-Goggles-Two-5-Inches-5_8G-40CH-Raceband-HD-1080p-HDMI-FPV-Goggles-Video-Glasses-p-1094862.html?utm_design=18&utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=Mail_men204_email&utm_campaign=newsletter-emarsys&utm_content=Winna&sc_src=email_2072391&sc_eh=0b85e39b70b5021c1&sc_llid=437349&sc_lid=87530770&sc_uid=XKATiwNjrT&emst=XKATiwNjrT_437349_2072391_11

It has HDMI which is great if you want to go digital later, and it has a diversity receiver (has 2 antennas and it chooses the best signal of the 2)
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 01, 2016, 08:02:24 AM
If you are looking for a small FPV monitor with video receiver, Banggood has a sale on.
Not sure about the quality but the price is probably the lowest you will find.

http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-LCD5800D-5_8G-40CH-7-Inch-HD-FPV-Monitor-with-DVR-Built-in-Battery-p-1067081.html?utmid=1134
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 08, 2016, 02:09:29 PM
The frames just arrived for those who have ordered them, I will bring them with me to the TEMAC meeting tomorrow night.

I will need to order the electronics and motors early next week to be ready for November 23rd build class.
If anyone wants any quad components from Rotorgeeks.com or NGHobbies.com, whether you choose the components listed or anything else, please let me know and I can buy them as a group to save a bit of money.

Stephan
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Candu on November 08, 2016, 03:24:29 PM
Quote from: Crazyflyer on November 01, 2016, 08:02:24 AM
If you are looking for a small FPV monitor with video receiver, Banggood has a sale on.
Not sure about the quality but the price is probably the lowest you will find.

http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-LCD5800D-5_8G-40CH-7-Inch-HD-FPV-Monitor-with-DVR-Built-in-Battery-p-1067081.html?utmid=1134

I have its big brother LCD5802D as my spare monitor. http://www.banggood.com/Eachine-LCD5802D-5802-5_8G-40CH-7-Inch-FPV-Monitor-with-DVR-Build-in-Battery-p-1029504.html?rmmds=search

I think the only difference between these is the 5802D has diversity receivers. I found this monitor is adequate for outdoor use. The only complaint I have is the glossy screen which you can see the reflection of your own face under certain lighting conditions.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 08, 2016, 08:10:56 PM
The goggles will always provide a better view as compared to monitors. The only way to cut the glare is to hide the sun.
One of the better quad racers I know, used to use a small screen like this attached to his transmitter with a shroud and fly with his remote in his face just to be able to see.
The only positive of a monitor is that you can look line of sight right away very easily, but you are not really immersed.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 19, 2016, 03:47:03 PM
Ok guys, group build starts in a few days, we need to get consensus on who wants what.
I will be doing the orders from Rotorgeeks and NG Hobbies this week, please confirm what you want.

Here is a quick video of what I expect you to be ready for by the summer!
https://youtu.be/dxo2k434hGs
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 22, 2016, 09:35:12 AM
Hi Guys, last chance to order stuff for the group build or for yourself.
I am going to purchase from NG Hobbies and Rotorgeeks today and I may be able to get some discounts for buying a bit of bulk.


Motors:
Good: ($91 for 4) http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_266_272&products_id=1490#.WAjxXsnx3zM
Very good: (131.96 for 4) http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=18_46&product_id=549 (must use better esc's)
(not worth getting cheaper, otherwise they will need regular replacement and cost more over time)

ESC's:
Decent: ($52.76 for 4): http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34_43&product_id=457
Good: ($89.76 for 4): http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34_43&product_id=315
(can't get cheaper than the first one)

Flight control board:
$32.12 http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_212_293&products_id=1579#.WAj0A8nx3zM

Power distribution board:
$7.77: http://www.nghobbies.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_212_294&products_id=1525#.WAj0vsnx3zM

Spectrum PPM Satellite:
$18.48: http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34&product_id=416
FRSky XSR:
$36.48: http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=469&search=xsr

FPV Kit (camera, video transmitter & antenna):
Good: $116.16 http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_32&product_id=593
(I may be able to find cheaper parts that work but the video quality will be affected and you will not enjoy your experience)

Extras:
Antenna extension $6
12ga Power cable + XT60 plug $5
Longer motor screws $5
Motor Lock nuts $6
Propellers $3 per set
Buzzer $7
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 23, 2016, 01:59:55 PM
Here are manuals for the Flight controller I purchased for the group build:
http://seriouslypro.com/files/SPRacingF3-Manual-latest.pdf

Here is a set of videos for setting it up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwGj5dX-T-A

I will bring a hard copy tonight.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 23, 2016, 02:57:48 PM
For those using a Spektrum satellite and the F3 board, here is the setup video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n59e_n_NGQQ

The XSR is a bit more complicated, I will show that in the class.
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 24, 2016, 02:19:15 PM
When soldering the flight controller, a tiny wire in the wrong spot can destroy your entire flight controller.
If you are not fully comfortable on where and how you are soldering wires, here is a little gadget to help avoid shorts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z7yRG56aKM
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 24, 2016, 03:35:34 PM
If anyone is interested, Rotorgeek has a couple of 7" monitors with Diversity video receiver left and selling at a very good price:
http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=381&search=702
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on November 25, 2016, 08:50:40 PM
So if some of you are techno keeners and want to fly your quad before anyone else, I have drawn up this diagram to make it simple on where to solder the wires without trying to figure out the very very simple manual... yes I am being sarcastic!!!
Please make sure that any power does not go into spots for signal or negative. Even a tiny solder bridge will fry your board.

These boards are the simple versions without OSD or barometer (the manual may show the options found with other boards as well). Although simple, they do have extra doodads you can play with such as LEDS etc...
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: sihinch on December 04, 2016, 03:27:47 PM
Can you just check, please, Stephan, that I am doing this correctly?
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: Crazyflyer on December 04, 2016, 08:43:55 PM
Hi Simon, that does actually work so that the LED switch is on the side. I originally thought about turning the PDB 90 degrees CW so that the switch is at the back but this is better if you want the battery connection at the back. Your way would keep the esc wires out of the side.
(The half moon is the back)
Your flight control board would have the mini USB port on the right of the quad.

When is the next build class by the way? The next one on the calendar shows December 28th!
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: battlestu on January 29, 2017, 07:44:32 PM
It's alive!!!!

Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: sihinch on May 03, 2017, 10:29:18 AM
So grateful to Stephan and Eric for inviting me to spend time with them this week, to finish my Quad. They were both so generous with their time and sharing their knowledge.

And I'm so chuffed with the result. It's such an awesome looking, professional Quad. And it flew, straight off the work bench!

This winter I have managed to conquer FPV quad flying and I'm excited about flying them this season. I'm by no means "good" but I can fly them - I bought a simulator and a small 2S quad and this worked for me. It's been like learning to fly again - the excitement and thrill is huge! And again Stephan has been so kind to let me fly some of his quads.

I can't wait to fly with the other builders this summer!
Title: Re: Evil Quadcopter Racer build group - Winter 2016
Post by: piker on May 03, 2017, 11:59:20 AM
It needs a pilot figure to complete the scale effect.