Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Topic started by: piker on March 21, 2013, 11:15:07 AM

Title: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on March 21, 2013, 11:15:07 AM
Hey!  I know there's a lot of Norseman building going on out there!  How about a build thread on the classes' progress?

What are you guys up too?

(Jack, encourage the guys to get on here and share their experiences... not just progress, but challenges, learnings, rewards, tools, deep thoughts, etc. and include pictures  :) )
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on March 21, 2013, 11:40:25 AM
Some Inspiration:

Norseman flying in Red Lake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr1qf6K9S88#)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 21, 2013, 02:31:45 PM
This is a build blog primarily for the members of the Inaugural TEMAC Scratch Building Course. Anyone is welcome to join in but please do not hijack the thread. It's about learning to build with wood. Six members signed up and have formed a very enthusiastic group. Ron Brott and Dave Henry of Pinnacle Hobbies have been very supportive with advice and financial incentives for which we are very grateful. The introductory meeting was on March 4th and the courses are being held in a large meeting room at the Malvern Community Centre, 30 Sewels Road in Scarborough. Any  interested club member is free to check it out. The course is held on a Monday night at 8:00 pm. The remaining schedule is:
April 15
April 29
May 13
May 27
June 10
June 24 (Rain Day)

The students are:
Eric Adams
Bill Quantock
Tom Stilo
Brian Michez
John Aurich
Bert Dunk

I decided that in order to learn how to use tools and get used to wood a kit would make a better start than pure scratch building. That will bee a graduate course for next year. I chose the 63" Noorduyn Norseman kit from Unionville Hobby. I chose it because it is an iconic Canadian design and Unionville is a local kit maker.

Frank van Beurden is leading the build and is working ahead of the students so he can point out any pitfalls and also show his methods for tackling problems. The first night was spent talking safety and looking at various techniques and of course opening the box. For their first assignment the class was asked to assemble the stab and fin and rudder and to bring them to the next night for review.

Here are some pictures of the group.

Jack.


Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 21, 2013, 03:00:20 PM
The second night was last Monday and we had much discussion regarding the fit of pieces in the kit. It would seem that the kit has been upgraded a few times and some of the cutting templates and build instructions don't quite add up. No big deal we all have solved the issues in different ways.

I have chosen to model "Buffalo" Joe's personal Norseman, CF-SAN. I have also decided to make it a permanent float plane so the floats will be fixed in place and not be removable. Since I'm modelling it after a real plane I'm making a few small changes such as adding a sub fin and including counter balances on the elevator.

In the pictures I show how I finished the rudder and fin. The counter balance on the rudder did not fit the contours of the rudder trailing edge and the fin did not match the front of the rudder counter balance shape. Very minor so I just sanded the curves to match and made it a little more scale looking. I also straightened out the bottom of the rudder where it joins the fuselage. This is more of a straight line than a curve on the prototype.

I sanded the rudder and elevator to give them a more scale like thinner section at the trailing edge. I decided to add the counter balances to the elevator after I had sanded a round edge so I cut the edge and was fortunate enough to only require a 1/4" square piece to get the correct shape. That's it pinned in place now i need to sand the edge again. I use small 1/4" round shaped blocks which makes the job quick and easy but more particularly, uniform and even all round. I gave each student one as a gift so they too could be nicely rounded off. LOL.

The task for the students until the next meeting is to build the wing. Frank brought a building board with a completed right hand wing and built the left hand wing while we watched. Quite a revelation in technique and speed. he explained how he chooses crooked spars to work against each other to nullify the warps.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 21, 2013, 03:22:57 PM
Now that everyone is busy building their wing I thought i would share a few observations and pictures with you.

1. The ply brace is cut with a saw blade and this leaves fine slivers so sand the edges. You don't want the slivers in your hands nor do you
    want them in the glue joint.

2. I followed the instruction sequence and I used Gorilla Wood Glue. This sets up fairly quickly so you need to have everything ready to go. The
    ribs are a nice tight fit so I used a small tack hammer to make sure they were in contact with the lower cap strips. A very gentle tap is all it
    needs.

3. I used 5/16" x 1 1/4" Trailing Edge that I cut down to 5/16" wide instead of the 1/4" sq TE called for by the plan. I had some old stock lying
    around that I had bought in Florida. This has the perfect slope so I don't have to sand it to shape.

4. The instructions show the leading edge being sanded to shape before adding the top sheet. I won't do that. I'm going to glue the top front
    sheet first and then sand it to shape. I will plane an angled edge to front of the sheet so it will mate with the LE correctly.

5. What I plan to do is to glue about 1/4" of the front of the rib and all along the LE. Pin it in place and let it dry. Then, using a brush I will
    put glue on all the remaining portion of the ribs and use weights to hold the sheet down. This should ensure a nice straight and flat sheet.

6. I used the mini bar clamps to hold the leading edge in place as it had a slight warp. I bought these in Dollarama when it was still a real
    dollar store. They come with plastic jaws but they mark the balsa so I just discard them.

7. Using a hobby saw can some times be frustrating as the kerf is so fine. Kerf is the width of the teeth. It will often bind as tensions in the
    wood become active while sawing. An old cabinet makers trick is to have an old piece of candle handy and rub it on the blade. This lubricates
    the blade and makes the cut much easier.

7. All web sheets are not created equal, in fact almost no two were the same. To speed things up I used one of my bar clamps as a protractor to
    transfer the actual measurement and then trimmed the web piece to size.

That's it for now. Let's see some other students work and pictures.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 21, 2013, 04:08:34 PM
Here is what I'm after. I decided to use Ultracote Cub Yellow and Light Green. Any Opinions??

I also am planning to use 6mm CF rod inside aluminum shapes for the float attachments. Any comments pro or con??

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 21, 2013, 06:14:06 PM
Just finished putting the bracing wire on the elevator. I like to use plastic tubing on these wires where they are in the elevator. For this I used some 1/8" styrene tubing.

Drilling a 1/8" hole in 1/4" stock can be tricky so I used three sizes of drill bits 1/32", 1/16" and finally 1/8".

I cut the styrene tubing using a cable stripper which avoids collapsing the tube. To make the groove for the wire I used a mini "V" grooved gouge and a fine round rat tail file.

Here are some pictures.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Ededge2002 on March 21, 2013, 06:23:57 PM
I have an OLD black and white photo of one I found long ago that hangs in my house. Its markings are CF-MLP  RCMP Ottawa.   Going by the markings and the aircraft history the photo is between 1949-59 
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 22, 2013, 12:25:47 AM
Hi Ed, here's some information about that Norseman.

Jack.

Norseman Mk V, Constructor's No. N29-40, Canadian Reg. CF-MPL. 
Aircraft sold to Royal Canadian Mounted Police Feb. 11, 1949. 
Paint scheme: Wings and tail surfaces, yellow, fuselage and undercarriage dark blue.

Subsequent owners (dates of sale):

   5/20/59 to Bradley Air Service, Carp, Ontario
   9/26/60 to Arnold E. Bradley, Chicoutimi, Quebec
   10/10/61 to Bradley Air Service, Carp, Ontario
   11/20/64 to Mattagami Skyways Co. Ltd., Moonbeam, Ontario

On May 5, 1965, MPL crashed at Cooper Lake (49/02N, 20/59W during a landing in a rainstorm. 
The pilot and two passengers were killed. 
Two other passengers were injured.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on March 22, 2013, 07:25:25 PM
" The counter balance on the rudder did not fit the contours of the rudder trailing edge and the fin did not match the front of the rudder counter balance shape "...from Jack Higgins Norseman post.
My rudder wasn't too bad but the curves on the elevator counterbalances were way off (I'm building the larger Unionville Norseman and will no doubt have slightly different problems). If the plan is correct, the stab was off by about 3/16"...so, added a 1/4" sq to the stab leading edge and rebuilt all four corners of the elevator and the part of the stab affected...the photo attached shows what I decided to do and also, a wonderful throat soother which gets rid of all the balsa dust! They didn't mention this at class but I sure find it helpful!Thanks to all involved in organizing the class...I'm having a great time and learning too!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on March 22, 2013, 07:32:25 PM
Nearly forgot...I did the most crucial task today and ordered the graphics! That'll really enhance the model's airworthiness and flyability! I also ordered foam cores for the floats...38", using 75-80% of prop to rudder post as a guide.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sts41 on March 22, 2013, 07:47:07 PM
"Here is what I'm after. I decided to use Ultracote Cub Yellow and Light Green. Any Opinions??"

Hi Jack
I am using Cub Yellow Ultracote. I am using the full weight one(HANU884). It is VERY forgiving for a new builder like myself...I wish I was there to follow along with the group. Cub/Norseman, pretty close in building styles.

Have fun guys

Steve
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 28, 2013, 08:36:20 AM
Hi guys, what progress are you making?

I have just completed the wing. Waiting on some servos to install but otherwise all done.
I had no surprises and it went together very nicely. I plan to use bolts to hold down the wing.
Be sure to add the doublers where the two wings join, leading edge, spars and trailing edge.

Let's know how you're doing.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Bert Dunk on March 29, 2013, 03:17:59 PM
 :)Hi Jack I have a few questions about my wing construction. The rear notches in my wing ribs appear to be forward of rear spar, is the best solution cut the 1/8' off the the rear of the rib so everything lines up?

Cheers,

Bert 
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 29, 2013, 07:54:43 PM
Bert and I sorted it out on the phone so he is well on his way to completing his wing.

How's every one else?

I made a tool for cutting hinge slots that makes a slot in less than a minute.
Have a look at the attached photos.

1. 1/8" Fret saw blade, break off about 3 to 4 inches.
2. Handle off an old foam paint brush.
3. Epoxy blade in hole with teeth set to cut on the pull stroke.
4. 5/3" drill bit that fits an electric screw driver.
5. Drill hole in centre of slot, insert blade and make one half of the slot. Turn the blade over and complete the slot. Bonus you now have a nice grove in the centre of the slot for CA etc.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on March 29, 2013, 08:47:34 PM
Jack,
I haven't started my wing yet as I'm looking for something flat to build it on...that's eight feet long! My building table is only six feet long...so, I'm thinking a piece of pink foam 8'x2'x1.5" supported on a six foot table should suffice for a seven foot wing?
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 29, 2013, 10:59:03 PM
Pink foam is what I used, it will work fine. It holds pins nicely.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Frank v B on March 30, 2013, 09:57:42 PM
Jack,

I made two of your hinge slotting tools last night after our meeting.  I put red heat shrink tubing on the first inch of the dowel just to colour it and act as an anti-slip grip.  I wrote the brand name on the side "Papa's hinge thingy".

Frank
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on March 31, 2013, 12:09:54 AM
Great Frank now if you would only hurry up and join the 21st century and learn to upload some photographs.

Recruit Tom to do some for you.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 02, 2013, 04:09:02 PM
My concern about a building surface long enough to accommodate the wing for the bigger Norseman has proved groundless. The wings are separate and end up being bolted to the fuselage and supported outboard by functional struts. There's a hatch to allow access to the mounting bolts so the wings will be removable for transport.
I figured this out afterI'd bought a piece of foam to build a one-piecer. It's been a pleasure building with materials supplied and when you don't have to design the parts and buy materials before you build them! My cap strips all had to be trimmed about 1/8" and I cut bigger holes for the servo cables but other than that...it fits!
I worked on one wing last night until I hit a roadblock. The LE is a 3/8x5/8" piece of balsa and both of the supplied pieces are warped...to the point I think they will warp the wings. Jack suggested finding better balsa and so I'm off to PIN to get their take and probably balsa. I'm not as shy or modest as my classmates, so here 's a photo of wing#1.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 02, 2013, 09:05:28 PM
That's probably too much to use. I would get another one.

jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 03, 2013, 10:53:24 PM
Hi Guys, My wing is almost complete just waiting for some equipment to install and finish the cap strips. I have added some 1/4" scrap blocks where the hinges are located to increase the gluing area. Just a safety thing.

I like to pin and glue the upper front sheet to the leading edge and for about 1/4" of the front of the ribs. I chamfer the edge that meets the leading edge to increase the glue area. I let that dry and then put glue on the remaining ribs and the front spar.

The weights are a bronze suppository mold from my days in the pharmaceutical industry and the blocks covered in tape are steel engraving blocks from my days in the greeting card industry. The black thing is a fluorescent ballast that quit last Friday.

When I glue i like to brush glue on so I make a glue pot from an old Tim's cup, cut to size and with two notches to stop the brush from falling and gluing itself to the plan because I was not watching!

Finally have you ever been searching for a tiny screw or washer that fell off the work table? I use a small rare earth magnet on my steel rule and when I remove something I just put it near the magnet and it's there when I need it. Also handy for holding pins when gluing.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on April 04, 2013, 10:48:42 AM
Quote from: Papa on April 03, 2013, 10:53:24 PM
The weights are a bronze suppository mold from my days in the pharmaceutical industry

Eeeeewwwww!

But otherwise, great and interesting tips... I mean... hints, as usual.  Thanks for taking the time to detail your process, Jack.

Robert
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 04, 2013, 08:39:28 PM
Rob lipstick molds were identical just a different shape.

Frank liked my hinge cutter and made his own. See photo.
He ran out of creativity when it came to coming up with a name!

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 04, 2013, 10:18:57 PM
Just came from framing the first wing for my Norseman...thought I'd post a picture just to prove Jack 's not the only one building! I need a bottle of throat soother to wash down the balsa dust so if I ramble a bit, you'll know I had at least one.
My directions called for the top TE edge to go on, followed by a couple of cap strips which locate the top LE sheeting. I followed the directions for this part. The root rib is not glued yet. I wasn't sure how to build the TE of the wing between the flap and the aileron...I left one rib full length and added a 1/4" piece from the aileron/flap support spar back.
There are a few mistakes but it looks straight, and I should be able to build the same mistakes into the other side.
Although it's a ways off, I've picked the colour scheme and the graphics arrived yesterday. I'm going to do it up in Queen Charlotte Airlines (QCA) colours and today, a book I'd ordered about QCA arrived...it's called "The Accidental Airline". Apparently no one ever planned to grow QCA into Canada's third largest airline in the 50's
but it happened.
QCA also translated as Queer Collection of Aircraft which certainly fit this rag tag fleet; Supermarine Stranraer, deHavilland Dragon Rapide on floats, Cessna Crane, Canso, DC-3, DC-4, C-46, Avro Ansons and a whack of Norsemen...sort of the original Buffalo Airways.
There's some fascinating history in Canadian aviation!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on April 05, 2013, 09:27:20 AM
Nice livery!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: thehaze on April 05, 2013, 09:42:28 AM
Looks good. Lots of scratch.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 05, 2013, 08:41:04 PM
Worked a bit more on the wing today...devil is truly in the details!
Also Googled the real aircraft CF-CRS....the one I have graphics for.
Here's part of what I found
"Sold to Pacific Airlines as CF-CRS on March 27, 1947. CPA Fleet No. 47. Bought by Western Aircraft Sales and Service (A subsidiary of Queen Charlotte Airlines), Vancouver, BC on April 1, 1948. Registered to Queen Charlotte Airlines, Vancouver, B.C. on April 21, 1948. On December 18, 1948, while moored at a buoy at Vancouver, heavy snow accumulated on the tail surfaces causing the aircraft to capsize. Salvaged and returned to service. Damaged in a landing accident at Elk Bay, BC. on August 23, 1951. A precautionary landing was being made due to poor visibility from forest fire smoke. Floats broke away and substantial damage was incurred. Pilot Cedric Mah and seven passengers escaped injury. "
Okay, no winter water flying for this model and no flying near forest fires! The float foam blanks (40") arrived yesterday so this model will be primarily a float flyer...but not from water in the winter!
BTW...the rest of this class is really quiet...or shy ...or modest or something...how about some stories or pictures?
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 07, 2013, 09:47:01 PM
Looks like progress is being made. I'm looking forward to see 6 wings on the 15th.

Mine is finished just needs a final light sanding and covering. And of course servo installation.
I'll do that later when I decide where I'm putting the Rx and stuff.

I decided to move on to the fuselage so I can better answer any questions as they arise.
As you have all noted there needs to be some reconciliation between the instructions and
the drawing. Nothing major just niggley little things. I am using aliphatic glue for the most
part but have used epoxy on the tail and the front end for strength. I have also used corner
braces on all frames. The instructions call for them on the rear frames but I did on all just
for additional strength and security. I know it is unavoidable but I don't like end grain joints.
They are inherently weak.

Jack.

Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: electroflyer on April 09, 2013, 10:16:02 AM
     I am so looking forward to this flying season. Given all these modellors/pilots getting down and dirty building and showing their wood skills and craftsmanship. It will be a refreshing change from the off the shelf ARF's. Nice work Jack!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 09, 2013, 10:56:10 AM
Quote from: electroflyer on April 09, 2013, 10:16:02 AM
     I am so looking forward to this flying season. Given all these modellors/pilots getting down and dirty building and showing their wood skills and craftsmanship. It will be a refreshing change from the off the shelf ARF's. Nice work Jack!
Echo Glenn's thanks to Jack.
"showing their wood skills and craftsmanship."...thanks for extending the benefit of the doubt...we'll see how the fleet of Norsemen do in the air.
I am really grateful to this club and Jack and Frank in particular for the support provided. Sign me up for next year's Scratch Build Class!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 09, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
I arrived late for class last session and missed the part about hinging ailerons and flaps on the Norseman...so, I'm confused. (happens rarely but lasts for long periods)
I've built the ailerons (and flaps) and support spars as per the plans but haven't cut them free of the wings yet.
The TE of the support spar sits perpendicular to the flat bottom of the wing. The LE of the control surface sits at an angle to the perpendicular allowing the control surface to move without binding on the support spar. I think this necessitates the hinge being located at the top of the support spar and the control surface.
1. IS THIS WHERE THE HINGE SHOULD GO?(top edge of aileron and top edge of aileron support spar) I can't find anything in my directions which help a great deal.

Although this location makes sense to me in providing some appropriate aileron differential, it seems that hinging the flap on the bottom side, even Fowler flap style with the hinge point below the wing (as per the real Norseman) makes more sense. If that's true, I need to rebuild my flaps.
2. SHOULD THE FLAPS BE HINGED AT THE BOTTOM?
3. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE'S A FOWLER FLAP MECHANISM(hinge style, not track) AVAILABLE COMMERCIALLY?
Advice, thoughts, suggestions appreciated...if I've confused readers of this post, LMK. A photo may be a lot clearer.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 09, 2013, 03:16:05 PM
Hi Bill, Robart sells a Fowler hinge.

http://www.robart.com/products/fowler-flap-hinge-15-scale (http://www.robart.com/products/fowler-flap-hinge-15-scale)

Putting the FLAP hinge on the bottom works fine as it's only going down from the hinge line.

I prefer to put the AILERON hinge in the middle.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build...hinges and flaps
Post by: Wingnutz on April 09, 2013, 08:09:39 PM
Jack,
Aileron hinge in the middle is the way I've done all previous models. If I follow the Unionville directions ( I already have) I don't think that will work...ergo the question about locating the hinge if the ribs are cut (half of mine are) for top mounted hinges.
Thanks for the lead on the Robarts Fowlers flap hinges....wow...pricey! The flaps on the real Norseman are not really Fowlers (there's no track to extend wing area) but the hinge pivot point is below the wing. I think I'm going to try something like that. I'll bring my design or prototype to class on Monday.
Couple of pictures of full size Norseman flap mechanisms...from RCCanada.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: eric on April 09, 2013, 09:57:34 PM
Just adding in my 2 cents worth. My wing is complete and ready for cover. I picked up a hinge slotting tool and will hinge the ailerons and flaps tomorrow night. The strings in the picture are pull wires for my aileron anf flap servo wires. I've already pulled the wires through a few dry runs, so I know they won't hang up under the covering and make me tear my hair out.

This has been a very satisfying experience so far. The fuselage has me baffled in a few places so I'm looking forward to the next build night so I can see a completed one.

Eric
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: eric on April 09, 2013, 10:24:26 PM
Forgot to post my colour scheme. I like the first picture, sort of a burgundy/gold. Its a bit over my head so I may have to beg some help from Ken Coleman.

If its not in the cards I'll go with the white/yellow/black. It reminds me a little of the scheme on my Aeronca Chief I owned with a friend way, way back in my single days when I had a wee bit of disposable money. Amazing what wife, kids, mortgage, vehicles, etc. do to cash flow!

Eric
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on April 10, 2013, 09:32:49 AM
All this building and planning is so cool, guys!  Keep up the great work!

And the colour schemes are really nice too.  Such a selection!

Robert
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build...hinges and flaps
Post by: sihinch on April 10, 2013, 01:21:49 PM
Quote from: Wingnutz on April 09, 2013, 08:09:39 PM
The flaps on the real Norseman are not really Fowlers (there's no track to extend wing area) but the hinge pivot point is below the wing. I think I'm going to try something like that.

How about a hatch hinge Bill, like this?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8230__Hatch_Hinge_27x10_5mm_10pcs_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8230__Hatch_Hinge_27x10_5mm_10pcs_.html)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: battlestu on April 10, 2013, 01:43:51 PM
i have a few of those left over from a build ... i'll bring them out to the next pilots meeting
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build...hinges and flaps
Post by: Wingnutz on April 10, 2013, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: sihinch on April 10, 2013, 01:21:49 PM
Quote from: Wingnutz on April 09, 2013, 08:09:39 PM
The flaps on the real Norseman are not really Fowlers (there's no track to extend wing area) but the hinge pivot point is below the wing. I think I'm going to try something like that.

How about a hatch hinge Bill, like this?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8230__Hatch_Hinge_27x10_5mm_10pcs_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8230__Hatch_Hinge_27x10_5mm_10pcs_.html)
Simon, Greg, those are close to what I'm planning. I'm going to try my own design but I may end up going the HK route.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 10, 2013, 10:27:51 PM
Quote from: eric on April 09, 2013, 10:24:26 PM
Forgot to post my colour scheme. I like the first picture, sort of a burgundy/gold.
Eric
Eric,
Nice choices! I like the burgundy/gold except...it's AMERICAN! :o Surely there's a Canadian colour scheme out there that grabs you??? ;D  ;D
Your wing looks good.  :D
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 11, 2013, 09:17:00 AM
[quote author=eric link=topic=3879.msg20839#msg20839 date=

If its not in the cards I'll go with the white/yellow/black. It reminds me a little of the scheme on my Aeronca Chief I owned
Eric
[/quote]
Hi Eric,
Hope all is well. I found some more photos of your Chimo Air Service colour scheme. I think it's white/yellow/blue. The guy who did the RCCanada Norseman build picked this colour scheme too. Flap hinge detail is visible here.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 11, 2013, 11:48:11 PM
Hi Guys. The fuselage is somewhat confusing I agree. Frank is building one side on his board and will do the other side at the class. The drawing on the plan is for a wing held down with rubber bands. The one in the instructions is for a wing being held down with wing bolts. Took a while for the penny to drop.

I used epoxy on the front for strength and wood glue every where else. When I dry fit the rudder it was not a good fit to the fuselage so I needed to make a wedge to lift the front. Fortunately a 1/4" was all I needed. See the first photo. I gently held it on my bench sander to get the chamfer. I also chamfered a couple of my finger nails. Not recommended but ...

The top of the wing has to be built up for the cabin roof but only when you have the fuselage well under way as the two have to be sanded in a pleasing curve. The risers are very much over size but I used a plane with a coarse set blade to bring it down and finished with my mini block plane with a fine set on the blade.

I started my servo tray for the rudder and elevator. The servos have neat clips that fasten to the lugs and eliminate the need to punch out rectangles for the servos.

That's it for now.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 16, 2013, 08:11:22 PM
 Thanks Frank and Jack for another great session! (Fuselage) Watching Frank build (live!) was a treat and an education all at once. You have to have tried to build to appreciate how good he is..all of us in the class(especially me) have a lot to learn!  :P
Jack made reference to the fact that the Unionville plans/instructions could be clearer...that's my excuse for all my screwups and why I got to class last night with half my homework done...one wing almost done with mods ...other wing started but waiting until I can correct mistakes from the first one. I also followed Jack's wisdom and used the plans as a starting point and did the following wing mods;
Wingtip...all new to create a more scale shape...added two shortened ribs
Flap...flaps on the big Unionville Norseman model are designed to hinge at the top. The real Norseman has flap hinges with pivot points below the wing...inverted the completed flap and added a piece of tri-stock balsa to the flap support spar and will mount with Robarts pin hinges.
Spar...had an old windsurfing sail batten which is a 9/16" o.d. carbon tube and used it as a spar/tube for the
aileron servo extension. It extends from the root to the main strut connection points
I finished my homework for next class a month ago...instructions started with fuselage!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 18, 2013, 02:44:32 PM
I built the fuselage on a magnetic board using the techniques on airfieldmodels.com (http://airfieldmodels.com)
Since I have no previous experience building anything this size in balsa, I have nothing to compare magnetic board building to, but with the help of the Unionville Norseman build on RCCanada, it seemed to go together just fine.
I'm leaning towards using the wing bolt access hatch which is the top of the cabin for battery access...any thoughts on this idea from experienced or interested types would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on April 18, 2013, 05:46:00 PM
I think using that access hatch is an excellent idea, if I understand what you're referring to correctly, and that it's large enough to get the batteries to where they need to be and strapped down.

Looking great and I like the magnetic building board approach.  I may have to try that one day.

Robert
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 18, 2013, 08:22:11 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Rob.
Your point about being able to reach in far enough to strap the battery down (wherever it ends up...I hate ballast)will probably determine whether I go this way or go to a B plan; either splitting the cowling top to bottom with one side fixed and the other removable or going Jack's route making the cowling removable with the motor mounted to it.
I prefer using the existing access hatch (originally for wing bolts only as the model was designed for IC) as I won't have to cut any more holes in the fuse.  :D
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on April 18, 2013, 09:06:59 PM
Another cool option might be a scale side door.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 30, 2013, 10:45:21 AM
Enjoyed last night's class...thanks again Frank and Jack. Could we do Show and Tell next time? Some of the other guys had made good progress and I would love to hear what problems, goofs and successes they encountered.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 30, 2013, 12:28:08 PM
Frank and I discussed it last night and decided that we would spend the next session on a show and tell about motor installation, battery and ESC. This would give an extra two weeks of building time for everyone to catch up. The session after that will be a demonstration of covering by Ron Brott of Pinnacle.

Wing or fuselage??

Let me know.

In the meantime let's get on with the building and call either Frank or me if you need help or advice.

Jack.

Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 30, 2013, 02:47:16 PM
I vote for fuse covering demo.
Bill
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: battlestu on April 30, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
Quote from: Wingnutz on April 30, 2013, 02:47:16 PM
I vote for fuse covering demo.
Bill

i would love to sit in on that :)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 30, 2013, 03:46:50 PM
That would be no problem.

It will be Monday May 27, at 8:00pm Malvern Community Centre.

Jack.
Title: Re: Norseman Build...another question for experienced types
Post by: Wingnutz on April 30, 2013, 03:50:23 PM
I'm closer to a battery location for my Norseman (the only big one in the group). Jack suggested the compartment behind the firewall, battery sitting vertically wherever it needs to go for balance. (I suspect right on the back of the firewall)

" Can anyone see a reason why I can't move the firewall forward to the back of the mounting plate of the motor with the motor where it'll have to go for prop clearance?"

My thinking is it'll allow the battery to be placed an inch farther forward and give the model the best chance of balancing without ballast.
Picture below may help.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 30, 2013, 03:55:49 PM
The main problem I see is the space is tapering and the battery fit may become tight.
You could always leave the firewall where it is and build a box to extend the motor and then you could put the ESC in the box.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 30, 2013, 04:00:18 PM
Point taken...what if the battery is the one in the following?
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 30, 2013, 05:14:20 PM
That would work. Is there a weight difference between the two batteries?

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 30, 2013, 06:11:00 PM
There is. The big one is 4500 5S and the little one is 4000 4S. The little one is much closer to a cube than the big one. Something like the small one should fit.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 30, 2013, 10:30:27 PM
I think balance weight will be critical so the heavier the battery the better.

Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on May 08, 2013, 09:37:10 PM
Risking monopolizing the thread...where are the rest of you Norseman builders?
Decided to put the batteries right behind the firewall and build an access hatch just ahead of the windshield. 1.Extended the firewall bearers so the motor will mount directly to the firewall and the batteries will be as far forward as possible.
2. Extended the 1/4" ply LG mounting plate forward to form the bottom of the battery box. The box is big enough to hold two, maybe three  4000mah 4S batteries if the weight is needed to balance.
The fuse is starting to look like a Norseman...functional but not a beauty pageant winner!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on May 13, 2013, 07:01:56 PM
I guess the other guys in the class are building...they're not posting.
Next step was the landing gear.
Unionville (kit company) supplies a neat fiberglass LG strap for the guys building the small model. I got two pieces of 3/32 music wire and a sheet of paper to show me what shape the wires are supposed to be. Bending this stuff is like bending steel...come to think of it, it is steel and the only way I could bend it was to put the wire in a vice and lean on it. A ball peen hammer added encouragement.
Took me a couple of hours to bend the four pieces accurately enough that they came together in more or less the right places. Next, a learning opportunity soldering 3/32" wire!  ::)
I used 4" Robarts lo bounce wheels as the  LG is extremely rigid to prevent damage to the Norseman's LG fairings.
Rogo Field will test my soldering!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on May 14, 2013, 07:49:04 AM
I guess that's your fault for getting the big one, Bill!!! Just kidding.

I popped in last night to see how things were going and it was awesome! Great idea sharing and discussion.  I was there for about 45 mins and learnt a lot (and got to understand some of the challenges!)

Way to go everyone!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on May 14, 2013, 07:08:38 PM
Simon,
I'll have you know my Norseman is not the only part of me that's big; stomach, ego, right knee...bet you thought I was going somewhere else with that one and would attach pictures!  :o
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on May 31, 2013, 11:28:11 PM
So when Frank finished the covering on the side I asked him to leave it as it was. Windows and the switch covered. Well! here's how I finished the windows.

The first picture is set up to show how I cut the film from the underside with the blade up to avoid scratching the acetate. I left about a 1/16th" over lap of film so I could turn it down with my iron. I used a detail iron set on low heat and took my time. The result is shown in the next picture.

I used 1mm Carbon Fibre rod to simulate the rubber seals on the window. They also conceal and ragged edges of the film. I put a small dab of canopy glue in each corner using the pointed end of a bamboo skewer to deposit a small amount accurately. I used a fine wire stripper to cut the rod as I find it makes a nice clean cut without any crushing. The second picture shows the rods before installing them.

The last picture show the final result. the glue is still drying and shows up white but dries clear. I did take a picture of that but it was out of focus. Andy Hoffer I aren't.

I thought you might be interested to see how it turned out.

Jack. 

Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on June 06, 2013, 11:40:21 PM
Some more progress. I put the registration letters on and painted the cowl. For the registration letters I used a method suggested by Dave Henry at Pinnacle. I made a photo copy of the letters in the size I needed. The type was Amarillo, the one used by the USAF, and you can download it from fonts101.com. I tacked the photo copy to the trim colour using a glue stick, very sparingly. I then cut the letters with a scissors and peeled off the photo copy and the backing paper. The glue stick is water soluble so I wiped any residue off with a damp cloth. I used masking tape to line up and position the letters. I'm pleased with the result.

I painted the cowl in the nearest colour I could find to my trim colour and it looks good. With the paint etc. my lovely tight fit has become too tight and I will have to adjust it with some sanding. Oh the joys of scratch building, one long adjustment.

jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: eric on June 19, 2013, 11:00:59 PM
Hi Guys;

I haven't posted much about the Norseman build so thought I'd update. I've completed the framework and have covered the flaps, ailerons and fuselage. One thing I have to say is thank you to Ken Coleman. I wouldn't be as far as I am now without his expert help and advice.

One thing I would like to share is how we did the windshield on this model. It worked out very well and here is how it was done just in case one of you wants to go this route.

First, we cut a paper pattern larger than needed for the windshield and pared it down a bit at a time until it fit perfectly. The pattern was then transferred to a sheet of overhead projector acetate. Remember the old overheads, before Powerpoint came on the scene?

I decided I wanted a dark screen so used the tinting material used to stick on auto windows for sun glare protection. The acetate was bathed, sloshed actually, with Windex and the black film laid on top. With a stiff piece of cardboard, the Windex was then carefully, to avoid scratching the surface,  squeegeed out between the 2 layers to get rid of entrapped liquid and air bubbles. Unless you really float the joining surfaces with liquid you'll get a gazillion air bubbles that can't be removed. Don't ask me how I know.

Here's some photos. I've still got a long way to go, but at least I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Eric
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: eric on June 19, 2013, 11:06:36 PM
Hi again;

Forgot to add this. I didn't use any canopy glue at all to attach the windshield. Instead, I cut 1/4" strips of covering material and first sealed 1/8" to the windshield. Use a trim iron on LOW temperature so you don't melt the material. Next, simply seal the remaining 1/8" of material hanging over the edge to the framework. Slick, and no ugly bits of glue sticking out the edges.

Eric
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on July 03, 2013, 11:23:08 AM
Looks great Eric! Keep it up! You'll inspire me to get back to the Norseman!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on July 03, 2013, 11:38:09 AM
I'm so excited to see all these Norseman's (Norsemen?).  At the TEMAC Fun Fly?????

BTW, what I've seen so far, in this thread, looks very good.

Robert
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on July 07, 2013, 06:13:26 PM
Well I've been working steadily to complete the build. I've cheated a little as I originally was going to do floats only but I'm having some thoughts on how to make the floats work the way I want. So I've put wheels on as the prototype would.
Tasks to do:
Hook up Rudder and Elevator clevis's.
Finish the struts.
Balance.

Ready to maiden. Anyone else close? If so I'll wait so we can do it together.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on July 07, 2013, 06:46:30 PM
Looks fabulous, Jack! Well done.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: thehaze on July 07, 2013, 10:37:26 PM
Nice work,  it looks fantastic!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on July 08, 2013, 10:40:04 PM
Yes!  Looks great, Jack!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on July 11, 2013, 10:38:08 PM
Well it's finished. Balances a bit more nose heavy but that will be fine for the maiden. AUW is 6lb 5oz. Planning for maiden sometime after 6:00pm on Friday. Couple of touch ups to do Friday morning. Anyone ready to join me from the Scratch Build Class?
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on July 11, 2013, 11:40:41 PM
Good luck Jack. It looks superb.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: battlestu on July 12, 2013, 08:17:03 AM
looks great can't wait to see the flight report
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Frank v B on July 13, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
Jack's Norseman's Maiden Flight:

- flew the plane twice today at the Bramal-E-Fly and it flew fine.
- the .46 has enough power to fly it.  Will try to prop it up a bit to get 5% more power to give it more climbing authority.
- needed a lot of left aileron correction (ran out of trim) for hands off flight.  Jack will remove some of the right thrust.  That should fix it.
- taxi control, rudder authority, elevator authority were just fine.
- needs rudder input to make a proper aileron turn.  Flies a bit like a Cub.
- landing control is fine, slow speed control is fine, greased landings are easy.
- very visible in the sky with the yellow colour.

Great build Jack.  Thanks for trusting your plane to a Dutchman.  Phew.... since it is still in one piece. ;D

Frank
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on July 19, 2013, 01:27:43 PM
Congratulations, Jack, for completing your Norseman so nicely and for a successful set of test flights!!!

It'll be a nice plane to have in your fleet.  A model that you'll be more emotionally attached to and one that you'll get much pleasure from while flying and showing off. 

Robert
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Michael on July 25, 2013, 07:41:50 PM
Jack's Noresman flew again.

Jack made a few changes, and added a bigger prop.

I flew a bit, takeoff, trimming and landing, and Jack did the cruising circuits.

The plane needed some trim but was flying straight and level within one circuit, had much better power with the new prop, and was able to fly considerably slower than the maiden flight.

Essentially, this is a very stable plane, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of them at the field.

Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on July 25, 2013, 09:04:55 PM
Way to go, Jack!  :)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on July 25, 2013, 09:07:57 PM
Thank you all, now I can resume the twin Build.

Jack.

PS. I really want to see all the others finished including yours Frank!

J.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: eric on July 27, 2013, 10:53:03 PM
Norseman # 2 is alive!!

I held a few "burning the midnight oil sessions" and got my Norseman to the flying stage. The graphics will have to wait as I've run out of time and have committed to other projects for a while, so there will be no pictures posted until she's all decked out real purdy like. Left to do: side windows & door outlines, tail striping, leading edge trim and registration numbers.

Ken Coleman talked me into putting a maiden flight on her tonight at 8:30. A light breeze and no one around - wonderful just in case it decided to die instead of fly. It taxied perfectly, literally jumped off the ground and, after a few clicks of up and left trim, she was hands off with cruising speed at half throttle. As with Jack's model, it was nose heavy at the indicated C of G, so I moved the battery back an inch and it was much better. I managed 3 take offs and landings and the handling was superb, but, as mentioned by Jack, it does need coordinated rudder for scale turns. Its a lot faster than I think it should be, so I'll keep moving the C of G back until she gets squirrelly.

Numbers: Turnigy G46, Talon 90 amp speed control with heavy duty BEC (9 amps continuous, 20 amp peak), 5,000 mah Nano Tech 4 cell. Spinning an APC 13x8 prop I'm getting 630 watts @ 48amps. With a flying weight (including the 1lb. 4 oz. lipo) of 6 lbs. 8 oz., its running 97 watts/lb.

I have to thank Ken for his invaluable help with some (well, a lot actually) of the details I was confused about. This is a builder's kit and was a real challenge for a first time newbie builder like me, but I'm really happy with the outcome. Cudos to Jack, Frank and all involved for a worthwhile and satisfying project.

Eric
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Ededge2002 on July 27, 2013, 11:06:52 PM
Great Job Eric and congrats to you and the build crew.  This is a great representation of the club.  Good job guys!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on July 28, 2013, 08:06:35 AM
Congratulations Eric, I'm glad you got your Norseman airborne. I know I speak for Frank when I say how pleasing it is to see the results of a lot of hard work and a huge amount of fun. You guys made it such a great experience.

Now the rest of you need to finish so I'm setting a new deadline. How about we aim to have all maidened by the Annual Fun Fly at the end of August. Are you up to it?

Jack.

PS that also means you Frank.

J.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on July 28, 2013, 08:34:58 AM
Congratulations Eric! Another success and great achievement.

I can't wait to see your model.

Simon
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Michael on July 28, 2013, 10:29:22 AM
Fantastic!

Even though we're in the middle of flying season, I'm excited to build (not assemble) another balsa kit next winter.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on July 29, 2013, 11:29:08 PM
Eric,
Congrats on a successful maiden! Glad it went well.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Frank v B on July 30, 2013, 10:41:49 PM
I am feeling the pressure!   :(

So you want my Norseman flying by the TEMAC funfly.  Good objective.

Just remember Jack, I work 6 days a week.  Your definition of "work" is significantly different from mine. ;D.  I know, you have earned it.  I am still working towards "Freedom 95" 8)

Frank
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on July 31, 2013, 08:13:52 AM
My definition of work is much more similar to Jack's than Frank's , so
I will try to get my Norseman done for the 25th too. Let me see, where did I put that old OS Max 60 anyway? Just kidding!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Michael on July 31, 2013, 05:17:22 PM
Congratulations to Jack on his first solo flight with his Norseman.

A great flight!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: eric on August 23, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
Well, I've finally completed my Norseman and am looking forward to committing aviation with it at the Fun Fly on Sunday. I just received a dummy radial engine in the mail, but I'll wait until later to paint that up and stick it in the cowl. For now, its good to go.

I'm hoping I'll see more models from our class, but I've learned that it takes an incredible amount of time to construct from a kit and understand the challenge of finding the free time to work on it, and I'm retired! Until I started this project I had no idea the amount of blood, sweat and tears that goes into building from a box of nothing but sticks, balsa sheet and a couple of formed pieces. It took me an entire evening just to put in the windows and door outlines!

The main thing I've learned from this experience is to go with my gut feeling, not neccesarily with what the plans say. I quit reading the instructions after the wing and built the fuselage from the plans and my own thoughts of how it should be done. I guess that's why its so satisfying to see the finished product.

Anyhoo, here's a few pictures of the beast.

Eric
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on August 24, 2013, 03:39:07 AM
Congratulations Eric! Another fantastic looking, unique model. The "blood, sweat and tears" have resulted in a wonderful aircraft.

Good luck with the first flight.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Gregor77 on August 24, 2013, 06:20:39 AM
Wow. That looks great!  Very nice. Looking forward to seeing it. 
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on August 24, 2013, 11:00:22 AM
Yes!  The Norseman looks very nice, Eric.  Great work.  Good luck with the test flight!

Robert 
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build...Wings On!
Post by: Wingnutz on November 02, 2013, 02:06:29 PM
Tail end Charlie reporting here! Got back to my Norseman from last year's build class after several months. Something therapeutic about balsa...
Anyway, got the wings on for the first time today...separate wings unlike the smaller one and... wow! good thing the wings are separate and come off or it would never go in my car! I've built the struts so now have to line everything up to get  AofA the same on each wing...
Maybe it will get finished!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Ededge2002 on November 02, 2013, 02:32:36 PM
Ohoooo!  Look everyone Bill has naked work shop pictures too!  Looking good Bill.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on November 02, 2013, 03:05:41 PM
I shall have a stern talk with my Norseman about appearing in public not properly dressed! :o
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on November 02, 2013, 07:06:26 PM
Lovy looking model, Bill. And workshop!

I know models naked don't leave much to the imagination but sometimes, when the body is so amazing, naked is best!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build...strutting and strutted
Post by: Wingnutz on November 02, 2013, 07:39:34 PM
Today's progress on the Norseman...dining room table is the only place big and flat enough to get strut length close...I'll have to adjust for symmetrical AofA tomorrow. Simon, you're right...naked is best...maybe I'll fly it that way...naw, it's too cold this time of year! :D
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on November 04, 2013, 04:14:49 PM
Great work, Bill.  Keep going at it so we can see the big bird fly next summer!

Robert
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Frank v B on November 07, 2013, 09:06:54 PM
My Norseman is almost finished after a couple of nudges from Jack.  I will bring it to the Nov 13 Pilot's Meeting.  The whole plane is together and covered.  The only things left to do are: the struts, install the receiver and ESC and set up the radio (throws, expo, rates etc.).  By Wednesday's meeting it will be ready to maiden.. or else! 8)
Have to get my bench cleared for the new balsa build class/biplane project.  Looking forward to it.

Frank
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class -real Norseman joins CWHM collection this May!
Post by: Wingnutz on March 28, 2014, 05:52:36 PM
For those of you struggling to find the energy and time to complete your Unionville Norseman, here's some inspiration! http://www.warplane.com/MassMailer/DesktopModules/ShowMailer.aspx?MailingsID=30 (http://www.warplane.com/MassMailer/DesktopModules/ShowMailer.aspx?MailingsID=30)
Title: Norseman Build...Charlie, Romeo, Sierra is becoming an airplane...finally!
Post by: Wingnutz on April 15, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
It's taken me longer than anyone else but my Norseman is slowly making progress towards getting airborne! This summer looks doable...wings are covered and the model is finally starting to capture the character of the old lady of Canadian bushplanes...except...IT's ON WHEELS!!! :o :o :o No self respecting Canadian bushplane should ever be allowed in public without its floats!
CRS's floats are at the back of the photos but that's going to be a minor project by itself!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 15, 2014, 12:20:21 PM
Looking good Bill.


A word of caution, you might want to maiden it with a two bladed prop. Then when it's sorted you can try the three blade. I started with a three blade on mine and it was marginal. It was almost at full throttle all the time. No margin for error.


Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Ededge2002 on April 15, 2014, 04:17:47 PM
Im never going to Bill's place.  The beers there are so small!

Looks good bill.  Its a long road but who knows when this summer will ever arive
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on April 15, 2014, 04:42:34 PM
That DOES look great, Bill. 

Of course I agree with you.  The Norseman does need floats  ;D
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: gmcnic on April 15, 2014, 05:50:30 PM
Very nice, Bill.
Hope you keep it lighter than this one in the video  ;D

http://youtu.be/e3MrKt1yh3E (http://youtu.be/e3MrKt1yh3E)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on April 15, 2014, 06:07:07 PM
If Bill's Norseman takes that long to take off, I think we're going to need a bigger bay!

Nice video though.  nice calm water  :)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Frank v B on April 15, 2014, 06:21:31 PM
Interesting video.  Have a look at the position of the elevator during the entire take-off run.  He puts it down once and the plane does not react. 


Frank
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 15, 2014, 06:38:03 PM
Notice  how he lifts the right float first to break adhesion and then the left. They all seem to do that on take off.


jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 16, 2014, 08:57:30 AM
Wow! What a cool video!  8)   8) 8) The fact that the vid's shot from the moving boat takes away the boat's speed from the Norseman's apparent speed which wasn't very high to start with...found myself wondering if the end of the lake or lift-off was gonna happen first or if the guy had an RC prop on a full -sized plane! Thanks Graham!
Reading the TEMAC analysis of the take-off run is like a short course in float-flying...gonna check my weight, amps and prop again!
Jack...will do a flight with a 2 blader but the 3 blader looks good on a floatplane!
Ed, will re-take the photos to you taste.
Happy Float Flying this weekend! May you lift-off before the end of the bay!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 20, 2014, 11:37:53 AM
Want to put floats on my Norseman and with that in mind, not sure where to put the ESC so that it gets air for cooling and is as protected as possible from spray and/or immersion.
Photo shows the motor and battery where they're going to be, with the ESC hanging loose. Any suggestions or thoughts about where to put the ESC appreciated.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 20, 2014, 05:00:47 PM
Just spray the esc with Corrosion X and put it on the side of the cowl above the battery.


Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build...ESC where?
Post by: Wingnutz on April 20, 2014, 05:56:35 PM
Thanks Jack. After trying the ESC in a variety of places, I've decided your suggested location will allow me to plug and unplug the battery with the least fuss. Hopefully the Corrosion X will address ESC waterproofing concerns. I'm still going to have to take the prop off to connect the battery as I'm not anxious to stick my hands through the prop arc to plug in.
Picture below shows the components test fitted to the firewall. Heineken is for Ed.
Don't think I'm going to have too much trouble getting the CG far enough forward!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on April 20, 2014, 09:20:35 PM
If you put a master switch in the battery loop going through the prop is no problem.


Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on April 20, 2014, 10:17:40 PM
Jack,
Again thanks. A switch sounds better than removing the prop! How do I find out about switches?
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: gmcnic on April 21, 2014, 08:28:38 AM
Firstly, I am NO expert!
I was thinking to put a switch in the Beaver before replacing the DX6i with a toggle switch for the throttle cut which originally had a hold-down push button.

The Apprentice S does use a switch between the ESC/BEC and the receiver on the (+) lead.  (So nothing works until the switch is turned on as the receiver is getting no power.)

A good place for small slider switches and other electronics is SAYAL.
There is one on the south-east corner of Woodbine Ave and 14th Ave which might be convenient for you, Bill.

I think if you put a switch between the battery-ESC or the ESC-motor, it will have to be quite large due to higher current rating required.  (This is where I'm hoping the "experts" jump in...)

Here's a link to SAYAL website and some photos of the Apprentice S setup.

http://www.sayal.com/STORE/ActionIndexP.asp?ID=180302 (http://www.sayal.com/STORE/ActionIndexP.asp?ID=180302)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on August 17, 2014, 10:12:40 PM
Yeah, I know...this is a really old thread. But my Norseman finally flew after two years in the build process AND thanks to Graham McNicoll, I have video to silence the skeptics (Andre the skeptic, but who's naming names?) who claim it never flew!
Thanks again to build class instructors Jack and Frank!


http://youtu.be/LG2LH8z6IYQ (http://youtu.be/LG2LH8z6IYQ)
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: sihinch on August 17, 2014, 10:18:08 PM
Very nice Bill. 3 bladed prop looks fab!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Michael on August 17, 2014, 10:32:31 PM
Fantastic!

That looks like an amazingly stable model!

Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Papa on August 18, 2014, 08:03:02 AM
Looks very scale Bill, well done.


Jack.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: piker on August 18, 2014, 10:27:46 AM
Wow!  Very nice, Bill... and a great test flight.  Congratulations on a great success!

I'm looking forward too seeing it at the fun fly on Sunday.
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Wingnutz on October 09, 2015, 03:47:23 PM
Old thread but new Norseman...CWHM took delivery of its full size Noseman about two weeks ago. Here's some photos shot at the museum today for all you Norseman buffs!
Title: Re: Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build
Post by: Gregor77 on May 15, 2017, 07:09:54 AM
Well, I dusted off "Jacks" Norseman from my collection of planes.  I was hoping to try it out in the next week if the weather is nice. I have a few questions.

- What size battery will work on this plane?  4S, 3000?  The posts from Frank mentioned it was nose heavy.
- Where is the CG as I have no plans.
- do I need the wing supports (Rods that go from the fuse to the lower portion of the wing), I noticed that a few images on google of the model are missing them. 

Otherwise I fixed everything that was broken and its looking good. 

Regards