Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Topic started by: Michael on February 17, 2020, 12:39:07 PM

Title: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 17, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
At the last TEMAC Pilot's meeting, we discussed the intent to return to the idea of having a 'group-build' project for out 'build classes'. These are usually held 2 weeks after our Pilot's meetings.

This thread will serve 2 purposes: 1, to decide on what model we would build, and 2, to follow the construction of one of the suggested models to be built.

Frank, who heads these build classes, has suggested a cute and simple scratch-built model, which he is featuring in another thread. It is a 3-channel – low wing trainer. Follow his progress here:
http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,7374.0.html

Simon may suggest another similar but larger model, that he is currently investigating.

The model am testing/suggesting is an Alien Aircraft Dragon 42. It is a 42" wingspan model that can fly off grass, water and snow.

Feel free to chime in, make suggestions, and offer comments, all towards making a decision to choose which model we should build. Of course, we can have more than one group of builders building different models.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 17, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Alien Aircraft Dragon 42.

http://alienaircraft.com/k304.htm

I purchased and will start building this model in order to rate its suitability for a group build project. If it goes together nicely and flies well, you may want to consider it as a model to build.

The model is a 42" wingspan flying-boat – type model airplane, with a high-mounted motor. The kit comes with strip and sheet wood, laser cut parts, molded styrene parts and some hardware.

The instruction manual can be found here:
http://alienaircraft.com/docs/304_book.pdf

In these photos you can see the open box, one of 2 plan sheets, a pink styrofoam  building surface, and an older motor I am considering using. The plans call for a 7" propeller. In order to use the motor I have, or most motors of the recommended size, a 3 or 4 bladed propeller will have to be used to draw enough amps and watts to fly the plane. Most motors of the size needed will usually spin a larger propeller, so the 3 or 4 blade propeller will make up for the smaller diameter. I'll deal with this later on in the construction.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: davidk on February 17, 2020, 03:33:28 PM
For some reason I'm drawn towards the Dragon mainly because of the water and snow capabilities.
Regardless of the planes chosen... if there are enough people, are bulk purchases possible?
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: msatin on February 18, 2020, 07:51:35 AM
I will almost certainly pick one of the projects,  but am still away.
Will make a decision when I get back
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: sihinch on February 18, 2020, 10:46:09 AM
Here is another kit that I have seen that might be good. Looks like a slightly bigger version of Frank's recent build. Also reminds me of the E-Flite Advance 25

Dancing Wings Hobby DW T30 1400 1.4m Wingspan Balsa Wood Trainer https://banggood.app.link/fWijrm3mb4
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 18, 2020, 12:11:51 PM
Quote from: davidk on February 17, 2020, 03:33:28 PM
... if there are enough people, are bulk purchases possible?

I'll find out once I have an idea of how many kits we need.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 18, 2020, 12:13:24 PM
Quote from: sihinch on February 18, 2020, 10:46:09 AM
Here is another kit that I have seen that might be good. Looks like a slightly bigger version of Frank's recent build. Also reminds me of the E-Flite Advance 25

Dancing Wings Hobby DW T30 1400 1.4m Wingspan Balsa Wood Trainer https://banggood.app.link/fWijrm3mb4

Nice.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 18, 2020, 12:14:10 PM
The instruction manual has images showing the complete construction. (See post 2 above.)

In these images you can see the construction of the fin and rudder. It's made of laser cut 3/32" sheet balsa parts, which I lightly cut out from the balsa sheets. Only the leading fin needed to be glued to the larger upright fin. No other gluing here. I lightly sanded the edges square and smooth, except the front/leading edge of the rudder was sanded to a round profile. Hinges are cut into 1/8th strips, and inserted into slots carefully cut with an Exacto knife. The hinges were temporarily installed to check the fit, but were not glued yet. They'll be glued after covering and installation onto the fuselage. Working slowly, the whole thing took less than 15 minutes.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 18, 2020, 12:15:27 PM
Stabilizer and elevator construction was similar to that of the fin/rudder. I found that by cutting the corners off the hinges, things went together easier. The small 1/8" dowel had to be sanded to a 3/32" diameter, which I then glued to the elevator halves against a metal ruler to keep things straight. Sanding the dowel and cutting the hinge slots took most of the 20 minutes work here.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Georgetsigaridis on February 18, 2020, 10:23:42 PM
All three kits look great. It will be a hard decision.
I may get more than one. I would build with the class and leave the second for later.
I am excited about the build and thankful to the instructors for their expertise and time commitment.
Thanks guys
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 19, 2020, 09:37:30 AM
Fuselage started. So far, very easy, but I`m working slowly. Also, make sure to build a right and left side. Doublers glued on, very carefully watching the placement location as per the plans.

Issues:

1. I didn't mark the part numbers (as indicated in the instructions) on the laser cut sheets, in order to identify and quickly find the parts when needed. This has slowed me down. I'll mark the parts next.

2. The fuselage sides ended up getting glued to the wax paper (which protects the plans). When dried, I carefully tore the wax paper from the balsa, and then lightly sanded off the glued-on wax paper. I didn't sand deep, and some wax paper residue remains; these will be the insides of the fuselage, although it doesn't really matter, since the model will be covered or painted anyway.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 19, 2020, 10:09:20 AM
Marking the part numbers on the balsa.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 19, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Preparation of formers exactly as per the instructions. About 45 minutes work.

Test-fitting the formers in the fuselage side; the fit is very precise!
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 19, 2020, 06:48:19 PM
Formers glued into fuselage sides. Overall, very easy and quick. Just follow the instructions and instruction photos, look at the plans, and make sure the formers are positioned properly before gluing (up is up; forward is forward). Maybe 10 minutes work with CA glue. The iPad is great for following the instructions, and is great for enlarging the photos to see details. I just have to be careful not to get any glue on it.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 20, 2020, 08:27:26 AM
Laser cut top and bottom for the aft-fuselage fit perfectly. It's simply a matter of placing the pieces in place (like a puzzle) and then applying glue.

Marking the balsa pieces with their parts numbers (before construction) as per the instructions (also indicates up from down) really makes the work easier.

5 - 10 minutes work here.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 20, 2020, 08:30:44 AM
Preparing and applying the bottom-forward fuselage sheeting was the first (minor) problem I found. 4 laser cut parts are glued together to form this piece, but when test-fitted to the fuselage, it was not a good fit (see photos). The fix was easy; I simply glued in 3 very thin spacers to suit. Then the part fit easily, was held in place, and thin CA glue was dropped in along the joints. 15 minutes work.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 20, 2020, 09:59:49 AM
Battery tray and velcro glued in, and front top sheeting assembled and glued on. There is a bit of sanding and bending required, but still easy stuff.

So far, this is fun!

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 20, 2020, 02:34:44 PM
Nose block glued on and shaped.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 20, 2020, 02:36:32 PM
Fuselage construction is done. Tail is fitted in the slots but not glued (until after covering). It can still use an overall light sanding.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 20, 2020, 09:12:42 PM
Wing center-section.

I built this following instructions very carefully. While it was not difficult, it took me more than 2 hours. I fitted (and sanded if necessary) each piece carefully, before gluing. The parts-fit is precise, but I had to check and double check each joint to make sure I got it right. As long as read and followed the instructions, it went well. There are several plywood pieces in this assembly.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 21, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Wing construction:

First major (not so terrible though) problem with the kit. 2 balsa strips (24" x 3/32" x 1/4") were missing. I had extra scrap lying around, so I was able to cut strips, but this was annoying and inconvenient.

I built both wing halves at the same time, making sure specific parts were built correctly for the right and left sides.

I followed the instructions carefully, but not careful enough. I still installed one of the servo-bay-openings upside down. I was able to cut it out and re-glue it in properly, so I remind anyone interested, dry-fit over and over, and make sure it matches the plans and instruction photos, before gluing.

(The photo of the aileron servo opening shows the correct positioning; plywood face up to the inside of the wing.)

Anyway, basic construction of both wings took about 3 hours. Sanding is still required, and the ailerons have yet to be built.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 22, 2020, 04:00:33 PM
Ailerons built as per the instructions and plans. Leading edges cut/shaped/sanding as per instructions. Hinges temporarily installed (this took most of the time), and wings joined/glued to the center section. I used 15-minute epoxy here because I wanted time to position the wing to make sure everything was straight, and then I taped things together so they would stay in place as the dried. I used medium and thin CA for all the gluing so far.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: davidk on February 22, 2020, 04:43:12 PM
Using 15 minute epoxy and medium and thin CA are the nice bits to know about.  Could you explain a bit where/why you'd use medium and thin CA?
Do the nylon wing bolts come with the kit?  Cheers.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 07:40:46 AM
Quote from: davidk on February 22, 2020, 04:43:12 PM
Using 15 minute epoxy and medium and thin CA are the nice bits to know about.  Could you explain a bit where/why you'd use medium and thin CA?
Do the nylon wing bolts come with the kit?  Cheers.

Thin CA seeps quickly into a tight joint and balsa grain, and drys in less than 5 seconds (brands vary), but does not fill a gap.

Thin CA seeps more slowly into a joint and the balsa grain, fills a very slight gap, and takes about 25 to 30 seconds to dry (brands vary).

Epoxy is heavier, fills larger gaps, and takes 5 to 15 minutes to dry, depending on the type of epoxy used.

Also consider, CA seeps into soft and light balsa better than in hard and heavier balsa or plywood.

So, in areas of exceptional tight fit and reasonably light-soft balsa, I use thin CA. Sometimes a structure or a joint is held together so perfectly, that simply dropping a few drops of CA on the joint locks everything in place.

Where hard balsa or plywood is part of the joint, or if I want to build  up a small amount of glue outside the joint for extra strength, or if I need to apply glue and then put the pieces together (I need a few seconds to glue the pieces together), I use medium CA. These glue joints need to be held or taped or pinned together until the glue dries completely.

Once glued with CA, it is basically impossible to undo the glued joint. Make sure things are in the correct position BEFORE applying CA glue.

These kits can successfully be built with white glue, but it will add many hours to the project.

I use epoxy where I want much more strength and more time to work before the glue dries. I used 15 minute epoxy when gluing the wings to the center section, as I wanted a couple minutes to do the work, and time to tape the pieces tightly, slightly repositioning the parts, to get everything to line up as nicely as possible. If I had used CA, and then put the pieces together improperly, the entire model (or at least the entire wing) would have been ruined.

******

The nylon wingbolts, and any hardware needed so far in the construction, was included in the kit. I may buy/use some extra hinge material, since the pieces I'm using are fraying quite a bit, that when final assembly is done, the hinges may be worn out (the fibers, that are layered over the center plastic part of the hinge, that absorbs CA glue, are falling off).

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: davidk on February 23, 2020, 08:46:19 AM
Thanks Michael, this is really good information.

Do you use a CA accelerator... or is not needed?
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 09:47:11 AM
I have not needed CA accelerator in this construction, so far.

CA accelerator is a liquid that is sprayed onto a medium or thick CA joint to speed up the drying process. It usually expands the glue a bit and dries white.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 11:45:09 AM
Suggestions:

Make sure the #11 X-Acto is changed regularly. It's much easier to cut with a fresh sharp blade.

Make for yourself sanding blocks. I epoxy fine, medium and course sheets to hardwood blocks. It makes sanding easier, more precise, and faster.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 11:49:05 AM
Tip floats.

Take some time to cut out parts if they don't slip out easily. Use a sharp #11 X-Acto blade/knife.

Built as per the instructions, with no significant issues. I did notice that the parts fit (see first image below) did not match the drawing on the plans. It did, however, match the photo in the instructions. It went together easily. Total time here about an hour and a half.

All built parts (not glued) together nicely at this point.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 03:11:37 PM
Motor pylon.

I found another motor that is more suitable for this model. Almost any brushless motor that is rated for 3 cells, 100+ watts on a 7" propeller will work, as long as the size fits.

I'm using the following, which is a quad motor and (30 amp) speed control. Anything similar will do.
https://www.seeedstudio.com/Emax-XA2212-12V-DC-1400KV-Brushless-Motor-p-1900.html

I needed about ¼" extension from the firewall to place the propeller in the right position. I cut parts out of plywood scrap from this kit. The modification was simple, and worked well. Don't be afraid of making minor changes to suit your needs.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 03:13:22 PM
Suggestion:

Buy small hex screws and a hex tool. This makes work much easier than with regular small screws and small screw drivers.

It's more expensive, but cheaper than Tylenol in the long term.  ;D
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: sihinch on February 23, 2020, 04:54:12 PM
Where do you buy your small hex screws from?

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 07:20:31 PM
Quote from: sihinch on February 23, 2020, 04:54:12 PM
Where do you buy your small hex screws from?

A+J's, and at the Aurora Swap meet - there's usually a guy with these screws (large quantity and low price), who also has all the servo wire extensions and stuff.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 23, 2020, 07:30:39 PM
Basic construction is done. Total weight (without the motor) is 201 grams (7 ounces). I estimate finished weight at 2 to 2½ times that.

The 2 main jobs ahead are:

1. radio (servos, receiver, wires) and control (pushrods, control horns, etc.) installation,

and

2. Covering.

The covering is next in the instructions, but I'll do the radio installation before the covering.

An overall light sanding and cleaning of the work bench first, though.

***************

Pushrods are not included in the kit. I'll stop by a hobby shop tomorrow to see what I can find.

Photo: Components (wings, fuselage, etc.) are not glued together yet.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: davidk on February 23, 2020, 07:32:45 PM
Beautiful!
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 24, 2020, 03:58:39 PM
Changed my mind; I started radio installation, but will cover the model before finishing the radio installation.

I read somewhere online an opinion that the wing joint is weak. Just in case, I glued in triangular pieces to strengthen that area, and I added more medium CA to the rear center joints and used CA 'accelerator' spray to harden and fill the tiny gaps (see photo). In any case, this is a small and light model that uses sub-micro servos. Other than being able to take off and land on various surfaces, the plane should be flown gently, like a glider or a trainer. If it's flown nicely, it should be fine; if it's flown like a pylon racer, it may break up in the air.

I bought Dubro micro E/Z links, micro pushrod system and more (much more than needed) CA hinge material; total under $20.

I installed servos in the fuselage (had to make the openings a bit bigger to fit my servos), test fit servos for the wings (made the opening for the servo arm a bit wider), and installed thread to pull the servo wires through the wing after it is covered.

If I haven't explained anything clearly or in enough detail, feel free to ask.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 24, 2020, 04:40:12 PM
Covering the model.

Main items/tools needed are:

1. special iron for covering model airplanes. Available at most hobby stores.
2. plastic covering. One side has adhesive that activates as it is heated (ironed down). The covering also shrinks as it is heated.
3. sharp X-acto blade/knife.

I will be mindful of 2 things as I cover this model:

1. It is a light model, so I will be careful not to shrink the covering too much that it might crush or break the structure, but just enough to eliminate wrinkles and to look good and smooth.
2. I will apply the covering so that any overlap faces the rear of the model. This is to prevent the covering from accidentally pealing off (from friction against water, grass, air, ...), and perhaps letting water get underneath. See the diagram below.

I may paint the tip-floats and the motor pod.

Ask any questions if needed.


Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 24, 2020, 09:27:21 PM
Bottom right wing panel covered. I'm using white Monocote.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 25, 2020, 09:45:26 AM
If you've never covered a model with plastic covering, watch this, or find other videos on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LuIcwOjkN4

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 25, 2020, 09:53:44 AM
I won't be going over the complete covering and all techniques, but I will highlight a few things I do, and will post my overall covering progress.

Before continuing to cover any large surfaces, I decided to cover some of the smaller areas that might be problematic later.

I will have to cut the openings for the hinges, using the (hinge locations in the) ailerons as a guide, before the ailerons are covered. Once the ailerons are covered, I'll use the cuts I make in the wing to cut the slots in the ailerons. I'll detail this later when I get to it.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on February 25, 2020, 03:18:00 PM
Guys, guess what I got here?  Yes I'm joining this build thread and let's make a dragon fleet.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: bweaver on February 25, 2020, 03:48:13 PM
Quote from: VadimKirillov on February 25, 2020, 03:18:00 PM
Guys, guess what I got here?  Yes I'm joining this build thread and let's make a dragon fleet.

OK, I give up.  Besides a role of Monocote, what did you get?  ???  Is there something in that box? 

Wait!  Don't spoil it for me.

I will continue to follow this thread to see.  Are you going to turn some more wood into something that will float and fly?  :-\
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 25, 2020, 06:56:27 PM
Basic covering is complete. I'll use some red and black trim to decorate, and I'm planning on sealing (water-proofing) and paintings the tip floats and motor pylon. The components are still not glued together.

It's important to overlap the covering joints to properly waterproof the model.

The covering job took several hours.

This might be a good time to remind potential builders that building a model costs more than buying a comparable ARF. The point of building is to have fun, and to enjoy another aspect of the hobby. It's not for everyone, but many really do enjoy it.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 25, 2020, 07:17:50 PM
Quote from: VadimKirillov on February 25, 2020, 03:18:00 PM
Guys, guess what I got here?  Yes I'm joining this build thread and let's make a dragon fleet.

Great!
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on February 25, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Work surfaces are ready. As before I mount drawings on foam board and cover with window insulating film that I tape at the back and heat shrink for a nice glossy smooth finish. 
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 26, 2020, 11:15:49 AM
Now we can watch Vadim's model take shape.  ;D

Every builder has their own techniques, so while most of the construction should be similar, it'll be interesting to watch for differences.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 26, 2020, 11:19:31 AM
Red Monokote film and blue Monokote (sticky-back) trim.

A few coats of water based polyurethane to seal the wood, sanded in between, on the motor pylon and tip-floats.

Parts readied for spray painting.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: davidk on February 26, 2020, 11:59:13 AM
Nice trick with the pliers to hold stuff.  What are the pins for in the tail?
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 26, 2020, 03:02:43 PM
Quote from: davidk on February 26, 2020, 11:59:13 AM
Nice trick with the pliers to hold stuff.  What are the pins for in the tail?

Just to hold stuff in place. Not glued yet.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 27, 2020, 08:59:16 PM
Tail decoration and then glued in place.

Before hinging the rudder, I noticed the rudder ran below (lower, longer) the lower fin. If I had left it that way, it would have ripped off when taking off or landing on grass. I cut it shorter, and re-covered that section, as in the photo with the blue arrow.

Elevator and rudder servos, pushrods, control horns, etc., installed. Working slowly, calmly and carefully, the servo installation took a couple hours.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: bweaver on February 27, 2020, 11:08:55 PM
Quote from: Michael on February 27, 2020, 08:59:16 PM
Tail decoration and then glued in place.

Before hinging the rudder, I noticed the rudder ran below (lower, longer) the lower fin. If I had left it that way, it would have ripped off when taking off or landing on grass. I cut it shorter, and re-covered that section, as in the photo with the blue arrow.

Elevator and rudder servos, pushrods, control horns, etc., installed. Working slowly, calmly and carefully, the servo installation took a couple hours.

Good thing to make the changes for float flying too.  It likely would have got hung up on the weeds too.  Looking Great!. 

Can't wait to see more of Vadim's construction as well.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2020, 12:10:00 PM
Servo prepared for installation exactly as per instructions. I had my transmitter, receiver and wiring ready, and tested everything each strep of the way.

Servo installed.

I found an error on the plans. The plans show the holes in the elevator control horn lining up ahead of the hinge/pivot point (red line in photo). It should be right on the hinge/pivot line (blue).

Aileron linkage installed and complete, using wire, Dubro Micro EZ links (plastic clips, as per instructions). The "V" shape in the wire is to allow for adjustments.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2020, 12:12:35 PM
Motor pylon and tip-floats painted and waterproofed.

Tip floats glued in place.

Motor pylon rear cowling cut to shape and glued on. Cut oversize, and then fit, cut, fit, sand, fit, etc., until a snug fit.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2020, 02:14:15 PM
Motor mounted on the pylon.

Note that the motor I'm using has a Kv rating of 1400.

*********

What is the Kv rating of an electric motor? Answer: "Kv" refers to the constant velocity of a motor (not to be confused with "kV," the abbreviation for kilovolt). It is measured by the number of revolutions per minute (rpm) that a motor turns when 1V (one volt) is applied with no load attached to that motor.

*********

The higher the Kv rating (all other things being equal), the smaller the propeller size; the lower the Kv rating (all other things being equal), the bigger the propeller size. Because this model requires a relatively smaller propeller, I would recommend builders acquire a motor with a Kv rating of no less than 1200. Otherwise, a motor with a lower Kv rating won't spin the small propeller fast enough to fly the plane.

I'm also using a 30 amp speed control, probably more than double the rating that's required to fly the plane, but by using a higher rated speed control, it will not get too warm/hot inside the fuselage. Be aware that there will be no airflow over the speed control to keep it cool.

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2020, 03:25:23 PM
The front cowling was supposed to be glued over the rear cowl, but it didn't fit. I guess I glued the halves together a bit too closely.

It did however fit nicely over the plywood spacer I used to mount the motor in the right position, so I trimmed it and screwed it to the spacer. It looks decent.

I then glued the assembly to the top wing center.



Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2020, 03:32:11 PM
The 'build' is complete.

I still have to look over the model carefully in case there are any exposed wood areas, or places where water could seep in. I'll make it as waterproof as possible.

I also have to prepare and install the rest of the radio and power system (receiver, wires, speed control) and the battery to balance as per the plans. I also will adjust the throws (elevator, rudder and aileron deflection) as per the plans.

I think I did a good/OK job on the build and covering, but considering I built it quickly, and the main intent was to have fun, I'd give myself an 8/10 or slightly better on the finished product.

It was not too hard to build, but I wouldn't recommend it as a fisrt time 'build' if the modeller was building alone. With the support of other TEMAC members, I'm sure just about everyone could produce a good flying model from this kit.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: bweaver on February 28, 2020, 03:51:57 PM
 :D
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: davidk on February 28, 2020, 03:56:36 PM
Agreeing with Bruce... I don't see where you lose 2 marks.  This is a 10.  The front cowling fits, and looks, perfect.  I might agree with your comment about a first time build... if... your very detailed build process was not available.  But... it is... and so this will be my first build because it will fly off land and water.  I'd already planned a red and white scheme but opposite to yours with red being the main colour.

It's beautiful, Michael... nicely done.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on February 28, 2020, 06:25:02 PM
Thanks guys.

The plane weighs about 618 grams with battery, which is almost 22 ounces, 5 heavier than advertised. I used a 3-cell 1800 mah battery to balance the model without using extra weights, about 50% over the 1250 mah battery they recommend.

It still 'feels' very light.

I really like the handling of this plane with the power on. I taxied it a bit on the carpet in my basement. Because the propeller is mounted high, the prop-blast goes directly to the fin/rudder, and direction control on the ground is excellent.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 01, 2020, 12:34:19 PM
The work has started it is very easy to build, just follow the manual. It's a great project to practice for CA glue. I'm using thin CA for most parts, very fast and easy just have to fit parts very well before glueing. 
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 01, 2020, 02:05:42 PM
The one difficult thing I ran into first, I think it deserves a special post, is pressing in blind nuts. While pressing the nuts I have cracked the plywood. So I have traced it on scrap peace of ply that was left.  And drilled net pilot holes in ply and wood plank underneath. Then I enlarged holes on wood plank so that nuts can easily go through. I placed ply flat on wood plank for better support and hammered the nuts. No cracks ply is strong and with a bit of CA glue it will hold the wing solid. 
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Frank v B on March 01, 2020, 02:42:13 PM
Go Vadim!!!

You can be the instructor for the build class. 8)

Frank

ps: tell us if you need any materials to finish the plane.  There is lots of good stuff hiding in workshops of us old guys. ;D
(cover striping, ESC, etc.)
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on March 02, 2020, 06:24:01 PM
Quote from: Michael on February 28, 2020, 06:25:02 PM

The plane weighs about 618 grams with battery, which is almost 22 ounces, 5 heavier than advertised. I used a 3-cell 1800 mah battery to balance the model without using extra weights, about 50% over the 1250 mah battery they recommend.


New weight:

579 grams or 20.4 ounces. I built a battery hatch which allows me to place a (1250 mah) battery further forward.

I will not show the hatch here on this website; the plans caution not to make one, since it increases the chances for fingers to get hurt by the propeller and for water to get into the hull.

I'll bring the plane to our meeting next week if anyone wants to see or ask about it.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: msatin on March 05, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
I've really enjoyed watching the progress Michael, Frank and Vadim have made through their projects.
It's great to see how projects come together!

On another note, I came across someone selling a kit on RC Canada called a "54" Mooney Mite Short kit"
I was curious to see if anyone else had heard of this company:
https://manzanolaser.com/
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on March 05, 2020, 02:36:07 PM
I saw it for sale on RCCanada.

It is a "short" kit. That means all strip and sheet wood, and all or most hardware, are not included in the kit.

Generally, short kits are a step between kits and scratch-building, and are not for beginners.

I thought about buying the model anyway, but I found the forward-slanted fin/rudder to be ugly.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 08, 2020, 02:50:51 PM
I have been working on the airplane. And I tried to go my own way. The only part that does not quite fit in the kit is the lower plate.  I thought I can fit pieces individually and do a better job. I end up making lots of small fixes lost a lot of time. I gotta tell that the way Michael did two straight cuts and filled them makes much more sense. 
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 08, 2020, 04:48:07 PM
Next I continued with wings.i was following all the instructions and read carefully Michael's build. All goes very well until I started wondering how straight and level are the wings. What do I see.  The very mistake Michael explicitly warned in his review. I glued servo plates upside down.  ??? :o   
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Frank v B on March 08, 2020, 06:12:33 PM
Vadim,

re:" I glued servo plates upside down.  ??? :o " 

paraphrasing from a history book  "Let he who never made a mistake cast the first stone".
Experienced builders will make a couple of mistakes per airplane but never talk about them. 
You are well on your way to the maiden flight.

Keep going.


Frank
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on March 09, 2020, 02:04:00 PM
Water Proofing

I applied clear silicone to the hole in the wing for the speed control wires, and along the rear pushrod exits.

I glued in 1/8th inch thick depron-foam along the fuselage where the wing sits, so it is very tight against the wing.

I also brushed some white glue along the stabilizer and lower fin where they meet the fuselage.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 11, 2020, 09:07:14 AM
I did a lot of sending and almost ready for covering.  I was really looking forward to the show-and-tell meeting but wife life gets in the way and I have to go with my daughter to doctors appointment. So I will bring it on the next build class. 
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: davidk on March 11, 2020, 09:14:02 PM
Clothespins... I've got to get some clothespins  ;)
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 17, 2020, 10:20:43 PM
Tail surfaces covering is done. Next to he more difficult part of covering wing and fuse. I'm still not sure about the type of hinges I want to use. Material that comes with the kit CA hinges seem too stiff. What do experts say?
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Frank v B on March 17, 2020, 10:41:48 PM
Vadim,

Keep going!!

The CA hinges are stiff but I usually fold them back and forth in the middle (hinge point).  Then put a pin in the middle so you know where the middle is during assembly.

The following photo shows the three steps:

1) Cut the 4 corners off the hinge.  It makes slipping it into the hinge slot soooo much easier.
2) Fold the hinge in the middle where it needs to flex.  Fold it back and forth few times.
3) stick a pin into the middle of the hinge line so you know an equal amount of the hinge went into the trailing edge and the moving edge.  Glue in place (after covering).


Once it is dry but before you add the control horns, flex the moving surface back and forth to the max a few times.  It will work fine.

Stiff hinges help stop flutter* at high speed.

For what it is worth.

Frank

*flutter can/will destroy the aileron or elevator.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 19, 2020, 09:22:22 PM
I did most of covering. It takes a lot of time to do it neatly and carefully.  At the end I'm just one piece short for covering material.  Does anyone have a 20" x 8" piece of white covering?
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Frank v B on March 19, 2020, 09:29:13 PM
Vadim,

I can probably find some.  What brand of covering?

Frank
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on March 19, 2020, 09:35:02 PM
Thanks Frank.  I had Monokete. 
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Frank v B on March 20, 2020, 11:10:37 PM
Vadim,

Found white Monokote.  It is 25.5" wide.  I have trimmed a 12" section for you (25.5" x 12").

I can bring it to Rogo Field on Sunday for my 1 pm Ryerson meeting or give it to your designated courier.

Frank
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on July 02, 2020, 07:14:24 PM
My build complete as well.  Don't have trim colors yet but otherwise all done. 638 grams with 2200mah battery. Don't know where I gained all that extra weight. Let see how it flies next.  I have enjoyed the project and got appreciation for balsa build.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Frank v B on July 02, 2020, 09:24:57 PM
Vadim,

Welcome to the balsa dust club.

Tell me which trim colours you want and I will gladly supply them.  I am down to about 30 rolls. ;)

Frank

Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: VadimKirillov on July 02, 2020, 09:42:22 PM
I haven't thought about the colors. I would take what you have.
maybe blue for the windows.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Michael on July 02, 2020, 09:54:23 PM
Your extra weight is from the 2200 mah battery.

I use a 1300 mah battery.

It doesn't matter. It'll fly very well, even in some wind.
Title: Re: 2020-2021 Buildclass model suggestion; build and discussion
Post by: Wingnutz on September 25, 2020, 07:02:57 AM
A bit confused about this...2020-2021 buildclass...ZOOM group buildclass? If it's the Dragon 42 and a ZOOM buildclass, count me in!
I'll bump my build queue yet again!