Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Skywriter Scratch-build Class => Topic started by: sihinch on March 06, 2014, 08:49:26 PM

Title: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 06, 2014, 08:49:26 PM
Want to say a huge thank you to Jack & Frank, and my fellow class mates for an awesome build class. Only Rob couldn't make it because he was watching a chick flick!

Frank and Jack were super patient and very generous with the sharing of their knowledge. I learnt so much about tool, glues and build tricks.

I promised the other students that I'd post these pics. Sorry I've not got time to explain them to everyone now, but I'm sure that if there are questions someone will know what's going on....
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 06, 2014, 11:53:57 PM
I have a question...  Why is Frank sideways?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on March 07, 2014, 06:32:22 AM
Drinking.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: battlestu on March 07, 2014, 09:24:00 AM
best build class ever!! (maybe because it was my first) thanks for all the tips!

Can't wait for the next one
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 07, 2014, 09:36:44 AM
If you click on Frank he gets bigger and turns the right way up!!!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 07, 2014, 10:05:43 AM
He gets bigger but he's still sideways.  That's O.K.  It's a good look for him.

Soooo.... what did I miss?  Did "we" start building the tail surfaces yet, or are we only allowed to look at the plans?

Are plans for floats included in this deal?   :)

Did frank or Jack do some building during the class, or was it more of a tools, materials, plan reading, and techniques session?

What are we, the students, supposed to have ready for the next class in two weeks?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 07, 2014, 11:37:03 AM
Frank did build in class, and already had a version of the tail bits to show us, as did Jack.

We are "allowed" to build the tail feathers before next class.  The vertical stab & rudder, and I think also horizontal stab & elevator.

In class we are making it as per the plan, but Jack & Frank had modified the build slightly, based on some comments in the write-up that hinted to the plane being a little heavier in the tail than necessary.

I cant quite remember if Jack built his as per the plan, but Franks tail was 28g lighter than Jacks, I think!  ;)

(p.s. You are right, on a PC Frank stays sideways, on an iPad he turns right way up!)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 07, 2014, 01:20:44 PM
Thanks for the update.

I need to get my stuff from Jack so I can get going on my build.

Are you sure you're not just turning your iPad out of habit?   ;)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: battlestu on March 07, 2014, 01:29:26 PM
he had to turn the ipad we was working on two devices ;) (i know it's hard to tell from the photo but ask anyone that was there)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 07, 2014, 01:39:15 PM
2pad Hinchcliffe. Otherwise known as iipad
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Frank v B on March 07, 2014, 09:57:30 PM
re "I have a question...  Why is Frank sideways?"

I prefer sleeping that way!! ;D

Both Jack and I had built the tail feathers before the class.  Jack built them per plan and I built mine the preferred way to save some weight.  Jack's fin and rudder per plan weighed 28 grams, my modified way weighed 14 grams (apples to apples).  During the class I built the tail feathers per plan using the parts cut out from the kit.

To answer Piker's question:  I build during the meeting and Jack builds one step ahead so we know what the part looks like.  This way we can also tell the students any mistakes or clarify confusing elements before the students get to it.

The Norseman build class evolved this way and it seemed to work.  Plus, Jack is retired and can dependably build ahead while us working stiffs are sneaking and hour or two here and there and like our student days, have to cram before a meeting.

Both Jack and I get a kick out of these classes.  They are a riot.

Frank
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: imran13 on March 08, 2014, 06:00:18 PM
I think  the way Jack built it, the ply covering was 1/64th inch, as opposed to what's included in the wood kit which is 1/32nd inch.

Correct me if I'm wrong.



When I got home from the class, I was looking at this picture, and I was wondering what that line near the top, that I've circled in turquoise means? I know the lower one represents the horizontal stab, but I have no clue what that upper one means.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 08, 2014, 06:07:45 PM
Hey Imran,

I just picked up my kit and plans from Jack and I'm looking over them now.  Yes, Jack used 1/64 ply on his.

The lines at the top of the fin are representing a top view of the fin and rudder.  Nothing you have to worry about including in the structure.

I'm glad you're working on it.  I'll get going on mine shortly.

Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: imran13 on March 08, 2014, 06:30:45 PM
Okay, thanks Rob.  ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 09, 2014, 06:14:59 PM
I've started!  :)

It's not much, I know, but I have the rudder in 1 piece!  I labelled all the parts, and made a start.  I'm pleased as punch!  ;D

And I'm staking a claim to a colour scheme! Silver & orange with black visibility markings. Just like my Slipstream.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 09, 2014, 09:30:54 PM
 ;D    I haven't started yet, but soon.

And we're going to have a new member (to the scratch building class) joining the build soon too!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 10, 2014, 01:54:27 PM
I'm doing mine in Wine and Cream with Gold Trim.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 10, 2014, 03:08:01 PM
That sounds delicious!   :)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: bfeist on March 10, 2014, 03:31:59 PM
Hi everyone,
Below is a Skywriter build document I've created using the postings of the original Skywriter designer on the British website he belongs to (http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=76286 (http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=76286)).

If anyone would like a printed copy, I might be able to print and bind some to bring to the next build meeting. Let me know.

Download PDF (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hyc8f2fyb4lbcr7/9DLVNzouqC/Skywriter%20Build%20Blog.pdf)

Ben
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 10, 2014, 04:19:56 PM
Holy Crap!  You created an instruction manual for the build!  Great work, Ben.  That'll make the build much easier for everyone.

Thanks for doing that!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 10, 2014, 04:47:49 PM
Stop Press!

News!


The next meeting has been moved from the 19th to the 26th. Kumar forgot he had a booking for 60 customers that evening and also Robert would be unable to attend. Same place same time.

Michael has decided to join us although he may be somewhat impatient and get ahead of us

Robert will build from scratch using his own techniques and style. This will be the result of years of building experience and we are fortunate to have access to his skills.

I will build from scratch using Ben's excellent build blog compilation. Thank you Ben. This will form am interesting comparison between Robert's and mine.

Greg Hazelton may also be building from scratch.

This so exciting!

Jack.




Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 10, 2014, 05:36:05 PM
Yikes!  That's a lot of hype.  I guess I had better figure out something good.

I'm glad the next meeting date has changed as I really want to be there.

And we all have to make sure Michael doesn't build ahead.  That guy needs discipline!   ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 10, 2014, 09:03:50 PM
Thanks so much, Ben!  That's awesome.

I've nearly finished the rudder tonight....not as much progress as I'd hoped.  :-\
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on March 11, 2014, 09:11:55 AM
Any chance all you eager beavers could post weights of your framed up empennages? I'm trying to figure out how I want to frame/build since the plan build is heavy?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 11, 2014, 10:17:36 AM
My aim tonight is to build the vertical stab, and to sand the rudder.  I will post weights of those 2 when I'm done, Bill.

I like the frame of the horizontal stab in the build instruction that Ben got us.  I may go that route rather than the ply top & bottom.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 11, 2014, 10:43:20 AM
I'm looking, but can't find...

Didn't Jack post the weights of his, and Franks tail sections recently?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 11, 2014, 04:18:58 PM
And now the only weights I will admit to.

Fin                 15g
Rudder          11g
Stab              53g
Elevator        21g (includes wire joiner).

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 11, 2014, 08:54:08 PM
My fin is 10g.

Just finished the vertical stab but the glue is drying.  Will weigh it when I can.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 11, 2014, 09:03:03 PM
That's a rudder not a fin??

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 11, 2014, 09:04:20 PM
I knew that!  :P
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 11, 2014, 09:52:34 PM
My fin, as per the plan is a whopping 26g!

When weighed together fin & rudder show 38g on the scales!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 12, 2014, 03:44:34 PM
Post some detailed photo's, that does not seem right somehow.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on March 12, 2014, 10:21:58 PM
OK, I've joined the group!  ;D

Rudder and fin built and partially sanded. One deviation from plans: the fin is sheeted with 1/32nd balsa instead of the supplied plywood.

Starting the stabilizer /elevator.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 12, 2014, 10:24:54 PM
Looking good and welcome.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 12, 2014, 10:34:49 PM
Your plans look they show both halves of the horizontal stab. I'm sure mine only show half. Dis you adjust them?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 12, 2014, 10:45:16 PM
You make a photocopy of the half, cut it with a scissors, carefully, flip it and attach it to the half on the plan.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on March 12, 2014, 11:03:27 PM
Mine was a scanned copy, carefully reprinted to the correct size, traced on the back with black pen, and taped onto the plans.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: imran13 on March 13, 2014, 01:24:28 PM
Did all of you use the supplied pieces from the wood pack? I remember that Frank build his rudder differently because in the wood pack, the grain is going cross-wise (tip-tail), whereas it was strengthened the way frank built it, with the grain going vertically. I'm thinking of re-building my rudder the way Frank did.


Any opinions/suggestions?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 13, 2014, 02:38:06 PM
Dang! I missed that. I just built the rudder with the wood in the kit. So my grain is tip-to-tail.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 13, 2014, 08:34:00 PM
Don't worry about it. The fake ribs will add lots of strength.

It will work out fine. Just bought the fixings to start the lower wing.

Will complete my kitting out this weekend.

See you in Aurora.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: electroflyer on March 14, 2014, 04:00:23 PM
What a nice looking Bipe. I checked out a YouTube video of it flying and was very impressed. I hope you all enjoy your building experience and appreciate the skills you develop. Is this scratch building or from a kit/short kit?


 Glenn
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 14, 2014, 05:05:25 PM
Both, we have seven building from short kits and two maybe three building form scratch.

Thank you for your encouragement. We would love to have you drop by anytime and offer experience and advice.
It's a mentoring and demonstration sort of learning process. If you would like I can put you on the mailing list so you can stay
up to date with meetings etc?


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: electroflyer on March 14, 2014, 09:38:45 PM
Yes Jack,
Please add me to the mailing list.
 Glenn
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 14, 2014, 10:49:52 PM
Would be great to see you in class, Glenn!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: kclau on March 15, 2014, 07:24:56 PM
Hey Folks,


Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth of information regarding my build. I started with the tail feathers, but could not find any feathers in my kit...."oh, yeah! It's all balsa wood...not feathers" ::) [size=78%].  So, I got done to it "starting the build",  and it seems to weigh a ton with all the extra bracing I added..."that was trying to copy Jack and Frank's beautiful[/size][/size], perfection tail feathers...oops! ;D  I meant Horizontal and Vertical Stabilizers!"  I guess if I sand it down far enough i.e. 1/64th thickness, then it will look lighter, and not way a ton...lol![size=78%]


Never-the-less, almost done with the H&V Stabilizers, just need a little sanding, and add the additional plywood.  Then I'm up to speed...I think? ???


That's all folks for now....talk to you soon :D


The King Pig
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 15, 2014, 10:18:05 PM
Looking good Kevin. Nice straight and clean work.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 17, 2014, 10:44:26 PM
I mentioned I was going to build the lower wing as one wing and cut it later to build in the dihedral. To make this easy I wanted to have a complete plan. I started with the printed plan on one side of my board and added some blank paper for the second half of the wing. I used Banner Paper from Staples.

I measured the distance from the centre line to the outside of the wing tip rib and transfered it to my blank paper. I then extended all the spar lines etc.

I got a piece of card stock, lined it up with the centre line and marked the location of all the ribs. I flipped it and starting at the centre marked all the rib locations at the LE and then at the TE on my plan. I then connected the dots and I had all the major locations I need to build a single piece wing.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: bfeist on March 18, 2014, 12:55:34 PM
Very helpful, Jack. Thanks for posting that, I was wondering how I was going to manage that.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: bfeist on March 19, 2014, 05:56:21 PM
I'm finally making a start and have already run into a problem. I guess this comes down to just how much I should be trusting the CNC cuts. Are these just rough shapes? The balsa laser-cut rudder is the wrong shape. The cut parts cover the vertical 1/2" x 1/4" structural piece in the plan. This doesn't seem to have tripped anyone else up. Am I being overly sensitive? I'll just get the saw out and get on with it.


Ben
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 19, 2014, 06:27:37 PM
That's not a 1/2" x 1/4" piece. It's two 1/2" x 3/32" one on either side of the rudder. They help to lock the rudder pieces together.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: bfeist on March 19, 2014, 06:30:57 PM
That's not a 1/2" x 1/4" piece. It's two 1/2" x 3/32" one on either side of the rudder. They help to lock the rudder pieces together.

Jack.


Well that explains it. How should I be reading these plans in order to know that?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 20, 2014, 01:14:35 PM

Quote
Well that explains it. How should I be reading these plans in order to know that?

Hi Ben Sorry to take so long to respond. I have attached a PDF that shows where the information was but it is not very clear and you have to work out things for yourself. It requires a lot of "imagineering" and building in your mind.

Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: bfeist on March 20, 2014, 02:53:48 PM

Quote
Well that explains it. How should I be reading these plans in order to know that?

Hi Ben Sorry to take so long to respond. I have attached a PDF that shows where the information was but it is not very clear and you have to work out things for yourself. It requires a lot of "imagineering" and building in your mind.

Jack.


Thanks Jack. Wow! Somehow I had convinced myself that that was a picture of the stab in position. But of course it isn't. I guess it's pretty clear I didn't attend engineering school.


Ben
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 20, 2014, 04:46:00 PM
Neither did I so we're both in the same boat. many of these plans are designed for "experienced builders" but it's a catch-22. How do you become experienced? You just have to bash on. I find that reading the blog and the 8 page magazine article with the plan in front of me helps me visualize my next steps. Then I visualize building that piece and see if I encounter any problems and make sure I have all the tools I need.

Jack.


Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 20, 2014, 09:22:37 PM
I've been finding that the best way for me to visualize the errors I am making is to start building and then realize you've gone wrong! It's great for teaching you how to correct things and overcome mistakes!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on March 25, 2014, 09:20:07 PM
Looking for a piece of hardwood approx 2x1x3 inches so I can fabricate one of Jack's "groovy" sanding blocks with a groove 1/4-9/32" across. Please LMK if you have something.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on March 26, 2014, 05:14:12 PM
See you tonight
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 26, 2014, 10:22:34 PM
Another awesome class tonight! Thanks so much Jack and Frank.

And also thanks to Ben for the build manual/memento!

I find the sessions so interesting and informative but most importantly this building lark is so much fun!

I will post notes and photos tomorrow (hopefully).

I can't wait until next week!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 27, 2014, 08:41:13 AM
So here are the notes from last night;

Recommend HS65 or similar for aileron servos.
Suggest add an extra rib at the middle of each wing, where they join.
Frank used 5/16 for trailing edge and 1/2 x 1/4 for leading edge.
Don't forget to add the 1/4 x 1/4 second spar under the ribs before you build - but line ribs up to main spar and TE.
L shaped aluminium 3/4 x 1/2 from Lowes for strut attach point.
If wood is bowed make sure you oppose the bow with the symmetrical piece - to form either concave or convex structure. Never parallel.
You can lick bowed wood - see picture of Frank!
Wing tips should be on center line of last rib, not flat bottomed.

Hope this helps and jogs memories!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 27, 2014, 08:49:03 AM
Very good.


I added two ribs in the centre from soft 1/8" balsa.
Don't forget to add openings for the servo leads!


Jack
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on March 27, 2014, 09:32:49 AM
Yes!  Great time last night.  It's always fun to get together with TEMACers.

I need to start cutting ribs now.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on March 30, 2014, 10:25:11 AM
Robert and I found nearly a perfectlly-proprtioned L-shaped aluminum rod, which we are cutting using for our wing/wing-strut attachment pieces.

The finished product ia approx. 3/4" x 3/4" x 3/8".

They may need some more cutting, filing/sanding, and will need further shaping and drilling.

If anyone needs/wants any by next Wednesday's building class, just reply here.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 30, 2014, 10:31:12 AM
If you're offering, yes please!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: bfeist on March 30, 2014, 02:13:42 PM
Pretty please, me too.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on March 30, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
Or you could use the 1/2" x 3/4" from Lowes as I did. less filing required. The fold under has to be about 1/8" so Michael and Robert you will have some filing or grinding ahead of you.


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on March 30, 2014, 04:11:41 PM
Actually, I cut the groove (for the plywood support) a little deeper, glued the L-bracket onto that, and then the 2 plywood pieces (one cut into 2 pieces) on either side.

I then used CA and accelerator underneath to lock it all in place.

I did not drill the holes in the L-brackets for the screws (that will hold the struts to then); I will do that later when I line-up both wings.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: bfeist on March 31, 2014, 05:35:13 PM
Hey, does anyone have an extra piece of pink foam to use as a build surface? I've about had it with this drywall and bent pins. Happy to pay.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on March 31, 2014, 06:15:07 PM
I do Ben. Will bring it gratis on Wed.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on April 02, 2014, 12:10:17 PM
Covered the tail feathers...weight went from 32g to 45g... :-\
BTW, anybody got some spare aluminum stock for interplane strut brackets? Offering coffee or cash (limited amount!)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on April 02, 2014, 01:32:32 PM
Hey Bill,  You're not supposed to start covering until the plane is completely built!  How can you get that very satisfying pre-covering photo?

Anyway, I have four sets of angled aluminum pieces that I'll bring to the class tonight (enough in each pack for all strut connections on the plane...plus a spare or two).  One for Simon, one for Ben, one for you, if you want it, and one for anyone else who needs some.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on April 02, 2014, 01:56:24 PM
Hey Bill,  You're not supposed to start covering until the plane is completely built!  How can you get that very satisfying pre-covering photo?

Anyway, I have four sets of angled aluminum pieces that I'll bring to the class tonight (enough in each pack for all strut connections on the plane...plus a spare or two).  One for Simon, one for Ben, one for you, if you want it, and one for anyone else who needs some.
Thanks in advance for the alUmineeum or however Simon says it...sorry about the covering...should I remove it?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on April 02, 2014, 02:33:47 PM
The damage is done  :)

Michael still has a foot or more of the aluminum extrusion, so if there is still a demand after the fourth set is spoken for tonight, I can cut some more pieces.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on April 02, 2014, 02:54:49 PM
Do you drill the holes, too?!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on April 02, 2014, 03:05:21 PM
I could, but I haven't.  These are just rough cuts off the extrusion while I had a fence set-up on my band saw.  Trimming, smoothing, rounding, and drilling is up to you scratch builders   ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on April 02, 2014, 03:18:14 PM
I'm only a kit builder!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: battlestu on April 02, 2014, 03:41:05 PM
I'm only a kit builder!

not any more ;)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on April 02, 2014, 11:48:23 PM
Jack, Frank,
Thanks for the Skywriter Build classes...I have enjoyed learning more about building model airplanes from you and others in the class...
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: battlestu on April 03, 2014, 08:43:54 AM
great time last night... thanks again Frank and Jack

Greg

Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on April 03, 2014, 02:21:39 PM
Believe me Frank and I get much more out of these classes than we put into them. The look in your faces, when you get something you did not know before, is all worth it.


Home work to be completed by late September 2014:
If you have any problems and feel you need a meeting let me know.


What is the status of your Lower Wings? Post some photos and information on the forum so I can be assured we are making progress.


Issues:
Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on April 03, 2014, 02:28:19 PM
I'm warped and need help getting straightened out. Would attend group help session.

For my formers, that is.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on April 03, 2014, 02:42:08 PM
Woodworking and Psychiatry all at the same time!


Are we good or what?


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on April 03, 2014, 03:09:07 PM
I can't believe we have to take a break while we're on a roll!  The classes are very informative and a lot of fun.

The work completed by the students (and teachers) so far is looking really great, and I know we'll all end up with very cool models when finished.  Man!  I'd hate to be one of the TEMAC members who is missing out on this opportunity.

I think EVERYONE (including Kevin, Frank, Imran/Imran, Jack, etc.) need to post their progress too.  Let's all try to stay at the same pace, so we can enjoy a test flight party when done!

Thanks, Jack and Frank, for doing this.

Wait!  Here's a thought.  I assume it would be O.K. for others to attend the classes even if they don't want to build this particular plane.  It's VERY useful information for any type of building, modifying, or repairing.  Maybe an invite (Tickler?) to the general TEMAC population could be extended when it's time to start the classes again.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on April 03, 2014, 03:27:23 PM
Good ideas Robert. Whenever I have talked at Pilots's Meetings about the class I have made it clear that all are welcome. Ken Coleman took in some last year. I will mention it again.


jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on April 03, 2014, 03:52:47 PM
To make my formers from Lite Ply I use my band saw, Skill saw and drill press.
From this you can see how easy and quick it is to open up the former.
The pictures should be self explanatory.
My band saw should be back in running order tomorrow afternoon.


Jack.





Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on April 03, 2014, 05:21:38 PM
Sadly I only have a razor saw and emery board!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on April 03, 2014, 06:16:12 PM
Wimps!

I build all my models with an old butterknife for cutting, I use the sidewalk for sanding, and I use a mixture of spit and flour for glue!

 :P
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on April 03, 2014, 06:30:21 PM
Too funny!

Here's my ply-straightening set-up.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on April 03, 2014, 09:34:04 PM
Did it work?


Jack
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on April 03, 2014, 10:27:46 PM
Not sure yet! I was planning to leave it until after I come back from UK!

After all, I've got 2 wings to finish first! :-)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: imran13 on April 09, 2014, 07:32:21 AM
Hey guys,

There's a class today right?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on April 09, 2014, 08:23:39 AM
Hi Imran

No class tonight, last week was the final class until Fall.

We missed you last week.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on April 09, 2014, 08:30:36 AM
Hi Imran, You will need to complete the Lower Wing and also the Upper wing by Fall.


Since you missed Frank and I can meet with you if you need further help.


Let me know.


 Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on September 04, 2014, 02:01:20 PM
Well it's getting close to the end of the Summer Flying season and time to start thinking of building again. Once again the location will be Col. Mustard's on Hwy 7 just west of 9th Line. Food at 6:00pm for 7:00pm start to the class. First class will be Monday October 6. You should have completed your upper wing so bring it along to the meeting. Frank will start construction of the fuselage.


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on September 04, 2014, 05:51:27 PM
I'm afraid I'm going to miss the first class. Sorry.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on September 04, 2014, 05:54:25 PM
Also, since this is a build class, please can we have a lesson in sheeting the wings? We never got that far last year and I've never done it before.

How do you get the balsa to stay on the formers? Which way should the grain go? How do you make the radius in the fillet for sheeting.

Perhaps we can do a wing refreshers.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on September 04, 2014, 08:30:37 PM
I thought we had all built the bottom wing?


Let me know how many have not built a wing yet besides Simon and Imran?


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on September 04, 2014, 10:08:18 PM
In class we did ribs, spars, leading and trailing edges.

We've not really talked about or seen how to do sheeting and then there's the wing tips too.

Servo mounting and bracing should be OK.

This is a first time kit build for me and I'm sure some others. I'm not confident I know what to do for some aspects that may seem natural to experienced builders.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on September 04, 2014, 10:17:57 PM
No problem. We will start with the lower wing. Then do the upper wing before going on to the fuselage.


OK everyone?


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on September 04, 2014, 11:49:22 PM
I agree with Simon.  We kinda did say...


Put down a spar
Glue on the ribs
Add trailing edge
finish both wings so we can start the fuselage   ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on September 18, 2014, 07:56:33 PM
I need some help please.

The aluminium L shaped brackets that are meant for the upper wing strut mounting. How do they glue in the wing?

The 2 ribs have slight cut-outs on the top, which I could glue the aluminium L into but then there would be no room above to sandwich some wood above it.

Any help please?

The L bracket is not really as per plan as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on September 19, 2014, 08:20:36 PM

@Papa or @Michael or @piker or @Frank v B [size=78%]Would love some help please.[/size]
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on September 19, 2014, 09:29:02 PM
Here's a picture of how the designer did it. Glue a piece of ply on the bottom of the wing and when it's dry cut it so the aluminum lug goes through. make sure it's the right way up or down as the case may be. Use epoxy on all the gluing. I glued another piece of ply over the bottom of the lug to seal it in.


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on September 21, 2014, 09:27:01 AM
It seems strange to me from what I recall.  I think at least the ply piece has to be wider so the slot doesn't just cut it in half.  That way there's ply on one side and spar on the other... if I'm picturing it properly.  I haven't looked at it since last winter.


I'm not using that technique.  I'll put the ply plates in, then drill a hole to accept a screw, then the Al angled piece will be attached to the strut end.  Then for assembly the strut gets screwed to the wing directly.



Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on September 22, 2014, 10:56:05 AM
It is a poorly designed attachment, however, I built it as per the plans, but then glued another piece of plywood across the aluminum and plywood on the inside of the wing between the ribs, sandwiching a liberal amount of thick CA, and then spraying the whole thing with accelerator. It seems strong enough to hold everything in place.


Robert's idea is better, but a small wood screw in plywood is only going to be marginally stronger.



Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on September 22, 2014, 02:11:21 PM
I was in a hurry when I typed that, so was not very descriptive... plus we have to keep it short for Simon.

I'll probably use captive nuts with bolts.

But I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I don't think the interplane strut are functional.  They don't have to be that strong.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on September 22, 2014, 07:39:44 PM
I can't even find what I built last year!  :(
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on October 06, 2014, 10:24:46 PM
First meeting of the fall-2014 building class was lead by Frank VB, and attended by: Jack H; Robert P, Bill Q and Michael R.

We had supper in the restaurant and then descended into the meeting room, where Frank essentially built a good part of an upper wing of his Skywriter.

We discussed various building techniques and variations from the plans, and of course, understanding the personalities present, endured plenty of stupid jokes and puns.

It was a lot of fun!  ;D

Frank will talk to Jack and make sure the next meeting more accurately targets the needs of those who will attend. As well, anyone can bring their model along and build at the class.

Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on October 07, 2014, 01:49:45 PM
Yep!  It was fun to get together and shoot the poop about the Sky Writer build, planes in general, and some MAAC politics  ;D

I hope more students show up next time so we can move ahead on the build.  Michael's anxious to test fly his Sky Writer  :o

Oh, and Frank... You drove away and left your bag of wood laying in a puddle.  I scooped it up and brought it home.  Thanks for the donation.  Now I don't have to cut out all the parts for my Sky Writer.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Frank v B on October 07, 2014, 09:18:21 PM
Robert,


Now I have to be nice to you.... until 30 seconds after I get my hands on the bag of wood. ;D   I'll buy it back at the Pilot's Meeting.  A can of Coke should do.


Thanks for picking it up.... and telling me about it. :D


Frank
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on October 08, 2014, 10:20:29 AM
I have all the Coke I need.  Just a lifetime of undying gratitude will suffice   ;)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on October 18, 2014, 07:20:43 PM
What is the focus for Monday night and what are we supposed to have finished?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on October 18, 2014, 08:09:25 PM
The focus is the upper wing and you should have the lower wing complete.


However if you are not quiet there yet bring what you have and we will work with you to get you and anyone else up to date. We won't go forward until all have caught up.


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on October 18, 2014, 08:53:38 PM
Jack,


Are we still going to have one table working to catch up (Frank) and another (me) showing sheeting techniques?  If so, I'm ready to do my part, but I'm wondering how those catching up will learn about sheeting.  Does is just make sense to have one table (Frank) showing / building everything in order?


Is the plan to have everyone bring in their work and build during the class to get us all (except Michael) at the same level?  If you want to do that, I can float as a helper.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on October 18, 2014, 09:15:13 PM
I think we need to get everyone as close in their build as possible so we can go forward at the same pace. So please float and bring the wing anyway just in case. We may have to wait sheeting until next meeting.


Jack.



Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on October 18, 2014, 09:46:59 PM
Makes sense.  It'll be fun!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on October 20, 2014, 12:51:01 PM
Taking care of my dad this morning, so while he was sleeping, worked at framing my top wing. Ran out of trailing edge so will have to go to P to get some. Waiting for the white glue to dry before I move it.  Beyond gluing in the ply strut mounting pieces, anything else needs to be done before sheeting...1/16 sheeting?
My bottom wing's about the same stage...top in the picture
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on October 20, 2014, 12:56:32 PM
The lugs for the struts have to be glued in plus the ply braces for the cabane and it is 1/16.


Check out the instructions it has the steps outlined.


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on October 20, 2014, 01:53:28 PM
I can't recall if they're called for in the instructions or on the plans, but I added shear webs to mine.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on October 20, 2014, 02:27:48 PM
1/16 sheet for shear webs?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on October 20, 2014, 02:32:04 PM
That's what I used.  I just glued onto the back edges of the spars.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on October 20, 2014, 03:35:16 PM
If you used the spruce spars then shear webs may be overkill but if you used balsa spars shear webs would be a necessity.


I don't know what was in the short kit but I used Obechi spars on mine since its true scratch built. I'll also show you a trick I did with the leading and trailing edges. I'm trying to use up old stock I have lying around from other builds.



Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Gregor77 on October 21, 2014, 11:56:55 AM
I had an opportunity to visit the class and I was pleasently suprised how much you can learn in just 30 mins of this class.  If anyone is interested, you should stop by and learn from theses guys!  Expect Simon, he should have a class on what 'not' to do when building model planes.  Just kidding... But please check it out, I am going to try to go next class, it was fun!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on October 24, 2014, 08:02:39 AM
Greg came mainly to drink beer and eat wings! ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on October 24, 2014, 10:17:45 AM
What's wrong with that?  ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on November 14, 2014, 03:58:26 PM
Since Jack started it......going back to April 3rd, my formers are warped and my straightening method didn't work.  So will you please show us how to fix them (not make new ones)?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on November 14, 2014, 04:03:08 PM
I wonder if wetting them, then placing them under a flat board (or piece of glass) until dry would work.  Maybe you could even place them between towels to help them dry with limited airflow.

However, as ugly as they are, being a little twisted, I think they will straighten out when you build them into an assembly.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on November 14, 2014, 04:24:32 PM
That's what I did last time, to try and flatten them!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on November 14, 2014, 05:38:47 PM
You made them good and wet, or just put them under a flat surface?
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on November 14, 2014, 05:51:30 PM
Wet them, put them between 2 pieces of hardened glass and then put 40lbs of weight on them and left them for 2 months!

They were straight when I took them out but now they have warped again.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on November 14, 2014, 08:03:30 PM
Then just straighten them as you glue them to the fuselage sides.  It'll be fine
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on December 01, 2014, 10:07:00 AM
Skywritter class tonight!!

Can't wait!   ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on December 01, 2014, 10:55:54 AM
I'm looking forward to it. I need some help shaping the sheeting on the nose, around my new shaped formers.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on December 02, 2014, 09:31:09 AM
Another great building class last night!

Michael worked hard to help Kevin get most of his lower wing built (after completing Kevin's upper wing in preparation for the class), Simon modified away on the nose of his Skywritter, Bill showed his plans for his modified Skywritter fuselage, and Jack, Frank, and I sat around to shoot the poop.  We were just missing Ben!

A lot of fun talkin' planes, as always
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on December 02, 2014, 09:58:52 AM
It was fantastic!  I had so much fun and felt so much satisfaction at progressing with a little complex problem (like modifying the nose.)


I got expert advice and input from Frank, Jack and Robert, and I'm very grateful.  And I'm excited about seeing the results - I really think it will work!  :D


And Michael's jokes were almost worth the trip, alone!  ;D


Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on December 02, 2014, 06:35:17 PM
I agree Michael should always take a trip .... alone!


LOL


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on December 15, 2014, 11:02:28 AM
Tonight is our last Build Night of 2014 so try and make it out.


We will start on the fuselage.



Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on December 17, 2014, 04:05:43 PM
The following comes under the heading "Do as I say not as I do".


Last Monday night watching Simon fuss and fiddle with Windex and Spittle to bend 1/8" balsa sheet over the top of the fuselage I remembered another way. If you score the inside surface with closely spaced grooves the wood bends quite easily. I used a straight edge and a 4" nail rounded at the tip (First Picture).


I glued the flat portion first and let it dry. (Second Photo). Then I glued it around the curve.


Now comes the stupid part. Stupid because I know what I'm about to do is incorrect in two ways but having got away with it before my arrogance knew no bounds. I was in a hurry so I took it to my grinding disc to do a coarse removal of waste before a fine sanding. The glue was not completely cured and I was using both the up coming side of the disc and the down going side of the disc. Naturally the glue caught and jerked the hatch out of my grip and sanded a corner off. (Third Photo)


I thought I'd turn my dumb act into a learning moment so I glued a chunk of scrap balsa in place and when the glue was fully dry I sanded it to shape. (Fourth and Fifth Photos). When covered in film only I will know.


The moral is don't go near a sanding machine until the glue is fully hard and never use the upward side of the disc.


Enjoy my discomfort.


LOL


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on December 17, 2014, 05:54:53 PM
Better your hatch than your thumb!

Nice fix.

And nice hatch.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on December 20, 2014, 07:44:32 AM
Score two thumbs up for Jack's repair. Nice!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on January 25, 2015, 09:16:44 AM
Hey class mates - if anyone in the class is not using the front engine fairing pieces can I have them please? To make my nose longer!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on January 26, 2015, 11:54:00 AM
I'm looking forward to the Skywritter build class tonight!  I think Monday is my new favourite day of the week!    ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on January 27, 2015, 10:06:53 AM
Just a small group of builders last night, but we had fun as always. 

Bill's Skywritter is coming along nicely and starting to look more complete with the top and bottom wings mounted, and the modified fuselage styling that looks fantastic.   Simon has done a wonderful job on the modification and sheeting of this forward fuselage and now his fuselage is mostly finished.  Simon was working on mounting the lower wing last night.  My Skywritter is moving VERY slowly forward and just needs a couple of evenings to bring it up to the level of the others (I think), but I'm torn between working on that and working on my other winter project.  For now, the Skywritter waits.

There was talk of going through sanding techniques during our next class (in two weeks), so we'll have to make sure our models are pretty much finished the building process by then.  After that, the covering will begin.   ;D
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on January 27, 2015, 10:11:29 AM
Very happy that I got my bottom wing mounted last night.  A ply plate worked very well and the seat is good.  I will post photo later.


Now I need to check it's alignment vs. fuselage and top wing.  I hope it all lines up!  ???


Then just need to add vertical and horizontal stab, finish the nose, hook up the surfaces and cover!  Sounds simple, right!  8)
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on January 27, 2015, 01:21:53 PM
First picture... Bill creating

Second... Jack Judging

Third... Simon reworking

Fourth... artsy shot

Fifth... ???

Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on January 27, 2015, 01:24:06 PM
Hey Bill!  I have your Mitre Box.  I'll bring it to the Dome on Sunday.  I hope you can wait until then    :o
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Wingnutz on January 29, 2015, 09:35:33 AM
Thanks Rob...BTW, not sure if your last photo is "artsy" or not...a finger might not do as good a job but it'd be less painful!...laughed so hard, I couldn't hit the keys on my tablet!
Simon, I'm glad your bottom's in place! It'd never do for it to fall off!
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on January 29, 2015, 04:18:25 PM
Wow! I didn't know Bill was building a bigger Skywriter than all of us!



Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on January 29, 2015, 04:36:31 PM
Well he built a giant Norseman, so it makes sense.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Frank v B on January 29, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
Sorry I missed the class.  My brother from Calgary and his wife were in town and staying at our place for 4 days on their way to chase the sun.


I have been working on my Skywriter and the fuse is finished.  I elected to make the nose longer by an inch and moved the motor forward about 1.5 inches.  The motor mount is now flush with the ply nose former.  The other change is that the shape of the nose was changed to look a little sleeker by sweeping the left and right side backward 45 degrees (when looking from the top).  It gives it a more refined look versus the flat nose on the plan.  The round air duct under the engine hole was elongated.


Will bring it to the next build session.




Frank
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: piker on May 08, 2015, 03:43:50 PM
I didn't know where else to hang my head in shame, so I chose this thread.

Unfortunately, I will not have my Skywritter ready for the group test flight day tomorrow.  In fact, I can't even attend, and cheer on those who accomplished the wonderful builds.  I'm sad that I'm not ready and I'm sad that I will miss a great event.

My excuse is that we've recently bought a house and the preparation for the purchase, as well as the planning since, has used up my limited build time that I would normally squeeze in after I get home late in the evenings.  Anyway, excuses...excuses   :)

Good luck to everyone who will test fly their Skywritters!  Please take lots of pictures for us! 


 
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on May 08, 2015, 04:18:17 PM
Don't worry Robert you're in good company. I had expected to finish it all up but I am much slower than I planned. So I will represent the "Forlorn Hope" group who are not ready and will cheer lustily for those who completed it on time. Then we will have a mini maiden between ourselves and we won't let on to anyone.


Jack.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: sihinch on May 08, 2015, 09:00:13 PM
Congrats on the new house Robert!

Shame you and Jack aren't flying with us tomorrow.

Hoping I can fly - putting a request out for some spare weights if anyone has some. I only have 1oz and I think I'm a little tail heavy.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Michael on May 08, 2015, 09:51:52 PM
I don't have any weights.

Stop by A+J's or Pinnacle on the way and pick up some of those sticky-backed lead weights.
Title: Re: Skywriter 2014 Build Class
Post by: Papa on May 08, 2015, 11:28:33 PM
I'll bring some.


Jack.