Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Topic started by: Michael on December 03, 2022, 04:04:26 PM

Title: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 03, 2022, 04:04:26 PM
Even though I plan to fly all winter long, there are some days when the weather is just not right. For those days, building a new model is in order!

My newest project is a laser cut balsa and ply kit of a Tiger Moth. It has a 980cm wingspan, so it should fit in most cars fully assembled. The version I bought was under $300, but that also included a brushless motor, speed control, servos and a propeller.

It looks like a great quality kit, but I started having some reservations once I got started.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cmm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 03, 2022, 04:11:35 PM
The fuselage sides are made of balsa, with plywood and balsa parts added for strength where needed, however, the rest of the basic fuselage construction is all in plywood. The parts fit is fair (not very good), and the gluing was not what I anticipated. While balsa glues to balsa with CA very quickly, plywood to plywood joints require more (medium consistency) CA, and more time to dry. Also, minor cutting and sanding of parts, to help fit, is also not as easy as with balsa.

The fuselage is not built over plans; it is basically assembled and glued together in your hands or on your workbench. In fact, there are no plans, and no 3-view drawings for reference.

Anyway, complaints aside, it took me a couple days to assemble the fuselage, and now I am beginning to sheet (balsa) the upper fuselage.

I would suggest to anyone, to trial-fit and assemble parts, even a few steps ahead, to make sure parts fit, before committing to glue.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cmm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 03, 2022, 06:00:14 PM
I use an old technique to help in sheeting curved sections with balsa.

Before actually gluing, I soak the pieces that will be curved with Windex (plain water will do almost as well). I let it soak in for a few minutes, and it helps the wood to bend without cracking. I then secure the parts (wood grain perpendicular to the bend) with elastics to a curved shape close to the size of what's needed. This dries quickly, and the balsa retains most of the curve.

With the curve in the balsa, it is easier to apply and glue, and less likely to crack or break.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cmm wingspan
Post by: Frank v B on December 03, 2022, 06:42:02 PM
Balsa dust!  Love it.

The first day of spring is when Michael has finished his 4th project.
This is project #1.  Please keep building to help speed up spring!

Frank

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cmm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 04, 2022, 11:21:09 AM
Fuselage sheeting is almost complete. The rear sections weren't wide enough, so I had to add a strip of balsa. I built the fuselage almost perfectly, but some parts just don't fit right.

The building process is slower than usual, because plywood glue joints take longer to set than balsa glue joints.

I would have to recommend this kit only to experienced builders. Anyway, I'm still enjoying building it, and assuming it flies well, the extra time and work will be worth it.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cmm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 05, 2022, 06:37:39 PM
Basic fuselage construction done. Not yet sanded.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 05, 2022, 06:40:40 PM
The tail is constructed entirely of laser cut balsa. There are no plans, but the parts fit here was essentially perfect. I initially glued the pieces together with white glue over wax paper`. CA glue would have stuck to the wax paper too much, however, I soaked a little CA into each joint once the structures were removed from the table/board. Sanding will be done later.

The pieces are assembled onto the fuselage, but not yet glued. tapered and curved sections are carved and sanded to shape.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 06, 2022, 11:25:14 AM
The center section of the upper wing, is of plywood and carbon fiber tube construction with balsa sheeting.

The instructions were not very clear as to which plywood pieces went where, but a little common sense (regarding how the struts would be secured) went a long way. I always suggest reading a few steps ahead of what one is working on, so you will have a better idea of what's needed as you build.

The instruction sheet suggests wetting the balsa to bend it over the curve of the front ribs. In my opinion, that would be very difficult to do without breaking the balsa, so I came up with another idea.

I made a series of cuts, half-way through the wood, so the wood would bend while dry, and using masking tape on the inside to make sure it wouldn't come apart, in case the wood split along one of the cuts. The technique worked perfectly.

The kit includes formed carbon fiber struts. They didn't fit easily into the center wing section nor the fuselage, but a little cutting and sanding silver this.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 07, 2022, 10:52:57 AM
The upper wing is built over provided plans, but without instructions. There are 2 drawings on the 'instruction' sheet, but I would still recommend fitting all parts together before committing to glue. It took an hour, maybe more, to cut the pieces (plywood and balsa) from the sheets, and to sand off the little tabs that held the laser cut parts to the sheets of wood.

It's a very light structure, fitting onto the center section on carbon fiber tubes. Each individual wing has been glued together, but the assembly (wings, center section, struts) have not yet been glued. I put them together to make sure everything fits.

The lower wing (I'll start in a few days) is more complicated as it has servo bays and ailerons.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: msatin on December 09, 2022, 08:45:25 AM
Excellent progress Michael.
I really liked the technique of making "half way" cuts to bend the balsa over the front curve of the ribs.
The resulting gaps are so small that I don't think you'll need to fill them in prior to covering
Very Nice!
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 15, 2022, 06:02:53 PM
Thanks, Mark. I'll sand them, but not fill them.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 15, 2022, 06:14:16 PM
Lower wing construction.

Warnings:

1. If you want to build this kit, be aware that the lower wing should almost be put together, before committing to glue. If the ribs are glued onto the spars first, then some parts won't fit.

2. There is a 3-piece plywood rib made up of parts D8-1, D7 and D8. These are not shown properly on the plans. The D8-1 should be facing outboard, and D8 inward. Otherwise, other parts won't fit.

3. Curved parts on the wing tip are too tall. They're easily sanded to shape, but it's easier done before gluing them on. As with the rest of the wing, the entire wingtip should be assembled completely, and then glued.

Anyway, it was still fun, and the lower wing construction is done. Ailerons are next.

Another warning: The illustrations intended as instructions, do not show servo installations. I'll figure it out later.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: octagon on December 15, 2022, 06:33:05 PM
Looks great. Obviously not a beginners kit so good of you to point out what needs paying attention to.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 16, 2022, 07:41:28 PM
The ailerons are shown on the plans, and slightly on the instruction-drawing, but with no specific instructions about how to build them. The construction is mostly of plywood, hardwood, and only one piece of balsa. I needed thin CA, medium CA and CA accelerator to put this together.

There are two errors on the plan. After carefully fitting parts together without glue, I found that:

- The plans infer that part D29-1 fits behind part D29. That is wrong; D29-1 is in the front; on the front face of the aileron facing the rear wing.

- D25 is shown flipped 180 degrees left/right, and forward/backwards. The side tab on D25 must face towards the wingtip, so the small tab fits on the bottom of rib D23.

I assembled the ailerons as follows: first, the 2 leading edge pieces were glued together, then the small ribs and D25 are glued on, the the trailing edge is glued, and lastly, the wingtip parts are glued on.

I used some of the supplied balsa strip-wood to fill in the edges of the aileron leading edge, so I could later sand them to a double-edge bevel, which will be slotted for hinges. This was obviously needed, but was not indicated on the plans nor instruction-drawing.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 16, 2022, 07:50:24 PM
Basic construction is done. The instruction-drawing shows some assembly and rigging images, but first I'll sand everything, install (but not yet glue) hinges, install landing gear, install radio/servos, all assorted horns and struts (but not yet glue), motor system with ESC, finish battery placement/tray, and cut/fit the cowl.

Then covering, assembly (with glue) and rigging.

Instructions are minimal. For example, the instruction page simply says: "Connect the aileron wing with paper hinges .... Of course, that's not what I'll do. CA hinges are included with the kit.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: GuyOReilly on December 16, 2022, 07:57:45 PM
The Tiger Moth looks great @Michael
Instructions for my DR-1 from th same company were also minimal at best.
Quality of material I found to be quite adequate.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 19, 2022, 04:50:40 PM
Sanding, hinges (not glued), and landing gear assembled. Nothing glued together yet.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 21, 2022, 08:09:06 PM
The tail wheel is, in my opinion, a poor design. With any bouncy landing, it could damage the rudder. I've bought a better tail wheel which I'll use, or if not, design my own.

Tube guides for the rudder and elevator installed. Aileron servos installed, cowl fitted, pilot area painted black and servos installed.

Wing tabs for the wing struts all had to be sanded and shaped to fit. Lots of work, and since they're all slightly different shapes, I colour-coded them.

There are a few drawings, but no formal instructions. This is definitely a kit for someone with a lot of experience; not for a beginner. That's too bad, because it's a nice model, and really good instructions would help this plane find more builders.

Anyway, I think I'll start covering and painting soon.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 22, 2022, 12:01:47 PM
I added hatches on the bottom to help with radio installation once the model is covered.

I assembled the (after-market?) new tail wheel, and it looks right.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 22, 2022, 12:02:54 PM
Ready for covering. I'll be aiming for a non-scale, but sort-of-scale-looking Canadian look.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: sihinch on December 22, 2022, 12:25:13 PM
Something like this?  ;D
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 23, 2022, 12:54:23 PM
Maybe. I'm still trying to decide.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: davidk on December 23, 2022, 03:43:30 PM
Flannel... for sure.  The buttons will act as vortex stabilizers... very cool.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: GordPayne on December 23, 2022, 08:58:27 PM
Great scheme! To paraphrase Spinal Tap, "There's none more plaid!"
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2022, 07:07:45 PM
Covering and painting done.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2022, 03:25:15 PM
Deflect-able surfaces hinged; tail assembled and glued together, and servos and linkages set up. It wasn't difficult, but took some time due to a lack of instructions. I used the supplied servos, and they seem to function well. Instead of the kit supplied servo-arm - wire push-rod connector, I purchased and used mini-EZ-connectors.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2022, 03:31:59 PM
Next up is the bottom wing. After setting everything up, it turns out one of the thin sub-micro servos in the lower left wing was not functioning well.

I chose to replace them both with small (but larger than the kit supplied servos) Hitec HS55 servos. This necessitated cutting the wing open to get to the wiring, mounting the servo hatches on top of (instead of flush with) the wing surface, to allow for the slightly thicker servos. There were other modifications, but I'm not listing them all. Suffice to say I am only recommending this kit to experienced builders. I'm pretty sure this kit will produce a nice and well-flying model, but it's a challenging process.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2022, 05:51:25 PM
The wings are intended to be removable, but I decided to glue them in place. It's not a large model, and the trouble of attaching and detaching rigging each time I want to put on or take off the wing, is not worth it. I will add the rigging, but it will be decorative, and not functional.

The cowl has been painted and attached. The included speed control was programmed (that was easy with the proper instructions), and propeller attached.

Windscreens are not included in the kit; I'll have to make them.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2022, 11:29:41 AM
Upper wing parts glued together, strut-tabs glued in place, and struts being loosely attached to the bottom of the upper wing. The included nuts and bolts were too wide for the holes in the carbon-fiber parts, so each hole had to be drilled a bit.

A well-equipped kit shouldn't need so many modifications and corrections to fit together.

Custom-printed and painted pilot installed on a magnet, for easy removal and access to servos.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: GuyOReilly on December 28, 2022, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: Michael on December 28, 2022, 11:29:41 AM
Upper wing parts glued together, strut-tabs glued in place, and struts being loosely attached to the bottom of the upper wing. The included nuts and bolts were too wide for the holes in the carbon-fiber parts, so each hole had to be drilled a bit.

A well-equipped kit shouldn't need so many modifications and corrections to fit together.

Custom-printed and painted pilot installed on a magnet, for easy removal and access to servos.

Great work putting that kit together. I looks great, should fly fine too.
I was surprised to see the bolts (I suspect supplied in the kit) are not flat, but rather countersunk head.
The bolt is sticking out and would be prone to snag on anything and everything (if that was me of course).
Would you consider reversing the bolt so that it could be countersunk in the tab and not the carbon fibre strut?  Just wondering...
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2022, 03:12:52 PM
Thanks, Guy.

I don't think it's a critical issue, so I'm leaving it as is.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2022, 03:14:13 PM
Receiver and stabilizer (electric 3-axis gyro) installed in the lower fuselage.

Upper wing screwed and glued on.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 29, 2022, 03:44:05 PM
I put 12½ ounces of lead weight up front, and it's still a touch tail heavy!

The plane now feels a bit heavy, but I think it'll fly okay. I won't construct and install windshields until I have a successful flight or two.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 29, 2022, 03:45:15 PM
Decals attached. I'll adjust the triple-rate throws next, otherwise, ready to fly.

Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: davidk on December 29, 2022, 04:07:31 PM
She's so pretty.  Wow 3/4 of a pound of weight.
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: Frank v B on January 04, 2023, 10:19:25 PM
Couldn't help it! 
Loved Simon's post #20 on the Canadian colours (photo 1 shirt suggestion) and Michael's mock-up of the Canadian wing (photo 2). 
Then ran across this display car at Steeles west of Yonge.  Had to stop and take this picture (photo 3, real, not photo-shopped).

Nice finished model Michael.

Frank
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: msatin on January 04, 2023, 10:23:50 PM
Beautiful build Michael!
Congrats
Title: Re: Dancing Wings Tiger Moth 980 cm wingspan
Post by: GuyOReilly on January 06, 2023, 09:09:34 AM
Great looking yellow plane!  Love the Canadian Airforce roundels.
To solve the nose weight problem (that was anticipated for my Seniorita) I elected to use a 2X4 solid piece of pine for the motor mount. 
It is visible in the picture.