Flyzone Beaver water rudders - question - help please

Michael · July 24, 2015, 06:05:26 PM

Glenn told me that he just disconnected the poorly operating water rudders on his (otherwise excellent) Flyzone beaver, and that rudder steers the plane just fine.

Are the water rudders left to swivel freely, fixed straight, or removed entirely?

Oscar · July 25, 2015, 05:15:40 PM

I tried all kinds of method to get the float rudder better control. At the end, I followed Glenn suggestion and removed it. With a bit of practice, the rudder steering works!! For me, I just left it swivel freely.

Michael · July 26, 2015, 10:57:30 AM

Thanks Oscar. I took the rudders off and it seems to steer just fine with rudder.

Wingnutz · July 26, 2015, 05:18:09 PM

I'm still struggling to control my FZ Beaver with a slightly modified supplied water rudder system.
Last two sessions, it has developed an alarming tendency to make violent left turns just before lift off and just after touchdown.
I like the taxi speed steering the water rudders offer but the left turns are violent enough, I'm worried about flipping the model...
Thoughts appreciated...

craigc · August 02, 2015, 07:06:30 AM

Have we determined the best solution to the water rudder problem?

A) Let them swivel free ?

B) remove the water rudders completely? (once they are cut off,they would be difficult to put back on)

Craig.

Wingnutz · August 05, 2015, 03:09:51 PM

Quote from: craigc on August 02, 2015, 07:06:30 AM
Have we determined the best solution to the water rudder problem?

A) Let them swivel free ?

B) remove the water rudders completely? (once they are cut off,they would be difficult to put back on)

Craig

Craig,
Certainly, I haven't figured out my FZ Beaver yet. Equipped with the supplied floats, in the air, off the snow, off the grass it's marvellous but on the water at planing speed, it's a handful.
I have removed the water rudders and at Scugog where I usually float fly, water steering is probably better because I no longer have weeds getting caught on one or two water rudders.
However, the previously noted tendency to violently turn left once the model is up to speed but still on the water is still there.
In spite of lots of speed on full plane, full up elevator will not lift the nose, until the model eventually violently turns left

...for whatever reason, wing angle of attack seems insufficient to lift off and I'm wondering whether deploying flaps on T/O will help.
What flap settings are the rest of you using to take off with your FZ Beaver? To date, I've used 0 flap.

piker · August 05, 2015, 04:17:59 PM

Hey Bill, My Beaver is long gone, although I'm thinking of getting a new one now that all my flying is done from water

Anyway, I used the rudders as supplied and although I didn't find them very effective at steering at taxi speed, they worked O.K., and didn't seem to hurt the take-off run at all. I did find that the Beaver floats generate a bit of suction while one plane, making the release a little tricky, but I found they tracked well.

I always took off with no flap, but I'm sure half, or even full flaps wouldn't hurt, and may help.

Wingnutz · August 10, 2015, 07:34:28 AM

Quote from: piker on August 05, 2015, 04:17:59 PM
Hey Bill, My Beaver is long gone, although I'm thinking of getting a new one now that all my flying is done from water

Anyway, I used the rudders as supplied and although I didn't find them very effective at steering at taxi speed, they worked O.K., and didn't seem to hurt the take-off run at all. I did find that the Beaver floats generate a bit of suction while one plane, making the release a little tricky, but I found they tracked well.

I always took off with no flap, but I'm sure half, or even full flaps wouldn't hurt, and may help.

Rob,
We made an offer on a Scugog home but missed it, so I'm really envious knowing you're now water based!
What's the secret to minimizing float stick or suction as you call it?
Two of my waterplanes, one a flying boat and one a seaplane have flat bottom water surfaces and in my opinion don't stick at all...V'ed floats or hulls got something to do with sticking?

piker · August 10, 2015, 11:51:12 AM

Hey Bill. Sorry to hear you missed the house. It sure is nice living on the water. We just need to get the house up to the level of the location.

Re. float sticking. I'm not sure what causes it but it seems to be related to the depth of the V. Flat bottom floats or hulls work the best for models, and shallow V's are almost as good. Some floats have a curved, concave, chine shape that I feel creates suction on the underside of the float while planning. I recall that the Beaver floats are like that a bit. The old GWS floats had a terrible planning surface shape (in my opinion). I put those on a plane once and the suction effect was horrible. I think those floats can work O.K. on the slow and light GWS models (Beaver, Cub) because they can lift off at slow speed before the planning speed get's too high and the suction effect become to strong to release from the water. I've observed a similar effect with the Flyzone Beaver, but much more subtle.

Perhaps you're having issues with the Flyzone Beaver, that other's haven't experienced, because of a slight angle of attack variation. I would try adjusting the airframe AOA a bit to offer more lift to the wing. In other works, see if you can lower the front of the floats a bit. It's been my experience, several times, that the difference between a dog of a seaplane and one that performs very well, can be a mater of a little adjustment to something... often the float to wing relationship as I mentioned.

BTW, I'm thinking of getting another Flyzone Beaver. I'll let you know how it works.

And while I have your attention... I have a question. How long were the staples we used to hold the runway fabric down, and where did you get them?

Wingnutz · August 11, 2015, 08:03:12 AM

Rob,
More nice days that come along, more envious I am of waterfront owners! Enjoy!
Geotextile (landscaping I think) staples were supplied by the geotextile retailer/distributor. If you only need a few, Graham M might be able to help you out. If you need a lot, LMK and I'll see if I can find the retailer contact info.

piker · August 11, 2015, 05:21:30 PM

Hey Bill,

My sister-in-law is looking for staples like that for a landscaping project, but can only seem to find fairly short ones. Any info you can provide would be helpful.

Thanks.

Robert

Wingnutz · August 13, 2015, 03:33:16 PM

Flew my FZ Beaver at Scugog this morning and used full flap for take-off.

Lift-offs occurred with far less elevator, at lower waterspeed and without the previously mentioned violent veering or rocket ship style climb and actually looked kind of scale...difference attributable to flaps and/or 15km/h headwind.
Rob, I'll look for geotextile retailer contact info

Wingnutz · August 28, 2015, 07:52:07 AM

Okay so I'm narcissistically replying to my own post(is this like a selfie?)
Flew my FZ Beaver at Scugog again yesterday and the experience confirmed last week. No need for water rudders and with full flap and 15 kph side-on headwind, the Beaver lifted off with 1/2-2/3 throttle and rose in a dignified, majestic scale climb with almost 0 ground (oops, water!) speed...all that was needed was the sound of the Pratt and Whitney at full song...
Did a Glenn and removed the Beaver's wings for transport...if I do that again, I'll leave lots of time for set-up!

piker · August 28, 2015, 09:56:09 AM

Hey Bill. I'm glad you finally got the plane working the way it should!

I'm planning to pick up a Beaver sometime soon as it's a great looking, reliable seaplane.