While I'm still 'locked up' here at home, I'm going to try something I've never done before. I'm going to try to scratch-build a 72" wingspan, 4-motor Avro York, as in the image here. It will be built of balsa and ply, and will have retracts. It will be finished in vintage Transair (Canada) colours.
I picked the size because I have 4 motors and 2 retracts that should be appropriate for a model of this size.
Any comments before I start?
Oh wow!
And it looks like it has a triple tail like the coolest 4 engine airplane ever built.... the Lockheed Constellation.
A description of the Avro York https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1642
Frank
Awesome! Do you have plans or are you going to "wing it"?
Interesting. I'm not familiar with the plane.
I am going to 'wing it'.
The Avro York was a post WW2 modified version of the Lancaster, converted to transport or for passengers.
It was also used for a time as business/personal planes for world leaders, Winston Churchill, for example.
Great Project!
I will be starting a Lancaster as soon as the Minimoa is finished.
I have 3 sets of plans and I am willing to let one go if you would need one.
The wingspan is 74 inches.
The plans were done by Paragon DPI 2 weeks ago.
What is your planned power system?
Thank you and assistance with the power requirements and system set-up would be appreciated.
Guy
Awesome project Michael. Wow! I'm so impressed.
Thanks Guy, that PDF will help. I don't think I'll need full size plans as I will sort of make-it-up as I go along.
I'm using 4 identical E-Flite motors taken from Convergence models, which are about the power of speed 400 brushed motors.
They'll be powered by a 3-cell lipo pack. I intend to build lightly.
A great Canadian modeller, Laddie Mikulasko used to build large model airplanes, but relatively light, and power them with multiple speed 400 motors.
Thank You
@Michael , I will search for that motor. Looks about the right size for the Lancaster.
Let me know if you change your mind about the plans.
I do not know the weight of this model as there is no indication on the plan.
I too will attempt a light build.
Guy
I'm not sure that motor is available. I think any speed 400 size brushless outrunner that spins a small enough prop (8 to 9") should be ok.
I'm going to use some of the techniques I used in building my Canadair Waterbomber in order to build as lightweight as pragmatically possible.
http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,6798.0.html
The wing will be one piece. It might be a bit cumbersome with four motors, but at a wingspan of six feet, it shouldn't be too hard to store or transport.
The fuselage will essentially be a lightweight, built-up hollow box.
Plenty of room in the inner nacelles.
Can I make a suggestion - don't hold the retracts in with masking tape. They will fall out! ;D
Question for
@Michael or
@Frank v B or
@bruce Would this motor, multiplied by 4 be adequate for a 6 pound Lancaster?
https://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=CSCA22121000
Price is right... I just want power that is not marginal.
It swings an 11-inch by 4.5 prop. I would prefer an 8-inch, 3 bladed one for scale effect.
Thank you for your assistance.
In order to swing a smaller prop and still produce enough thrust, you would need a motor with a higher KV number.
Maybe, just maybe, a 3-blade prop, maybe like 8/6, or 9/6 cut down to 8/6 might work.
I'm not really sure.
This motor can produce 300 watts, so 4 motors can produce 1200 watts, way more than enough power, but they're expensive.
https://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=EFLM1205
I am starting a new Blog called Lancaster 74 Inches.
Some of the posts will be copied there.
Thank you for your insightful comments Michael, Frank and Bruce.
I'm still waiting for a balsa wood delivery.
Don't you just love a public-funded company that competes with the private sector?
Canada Post Tracking for my package of balsa:
Apparently they offer time travel as one of their services.
Just curious... where you order your wood from?
Ken Fluney. "Polecat".
Same here:
Delivery status
Expected delivery: Wednesday, Apr. 8, 9:30 am to 1:30 pm Help
Delivery detailsIn transit Apr. 17
Received by Canada Post Apr. 6Expected delivery Apr. 8, 9:30 am to 1:30 pm
Delivery progress Information updated: Apr. 17
Date Time Progress Apr. 6 9:25 am
Item accepted at the Post Office Orangeville, ON
That's not encouraging.
Canada Post Status.
Did you call the post office?
Online response was: it is being processed, the status will be updated when at an other stage of the delivery. Useless to talk to Canada Post. >:(
I purchased a electric motor on RCCanada, was shipped April 7 from Oshawa still not here, showing in transit April 18. So things have come to a snell's pace at Canada Post.
Last week I placed an order at Hobby Hobby, was here in 4 days, which I didn't expect it to arrive that fast. So I don't know if it is the larger packages taking the time to process or what.
I shipped 4 packages of wood on April 14th and will check the status them.
Ken
Everyone should buy from the LHS now and say no to Hobby King.
I would have to agree with Ken.
I have been a long-time supporter of local dealers.
Balsa wood arrived yesterday (thanks, Ken), and construction started this afternoon.
It's my own design, and I'm making it up as I go along.
I'm starting with the center wing section.
I suggest seeing if you can find "Chris Golds" Lancaster plans, it was a mix of foam and ply. Maybe some of the construction can help as a guide?
Center wing and inner nacelles construction under way.
These fuselage sides (lacking entire nose/cockpit and tail cone) were much more work than one might imagine.
Straightening balsa sheets edges and gluing them together, lots of measuring, marking the outline, cutting and sanding. It took several hours.
Coming along nicely!
Thanks, Robert.
More slow and steady progress: fuselage formers, partial fuselage sides, and partial bottom sheeting.
Designing/building the outer wing panels from scratch.
Parts for one wing outer section are cut to shape and size, and set up (no glue).
I have not prepared sheeting, cap strips, nacelles nor servo bays.
The parts behind the wing are for the other side; I still have to cut the other side's ribs to shape.
Nice work Michael, you are a real old school builder.
Ken
Thanks, Ken.
"old school builder"
That could mean:
- I'm an old-school builder, in that I build model airplanes in a time-honoured fashion
or
- I'm a builder of old schools
or
- that I'm old and I build schools.
Coffee and ribs for breakfast.
Now to make plywood dihedral braces.
Webbing, wing-top sheeting, cap-strips, ailerons, sanding, nacelles and servo installation still to be done.
Starting the webbing, sheeting and cap-strips.
Michael, what is in that yellow cup? That's incredible!
Back to it after a week of all kinds of work.
Tail section, so far, took me all day today.
Partially sanded, beveled, hinged (not glued) and assembled.
Wing top sheeted and cap-stripped. rudder servos installed.
This has been a lot more work than I anticipated, and there's a lot more to go!
Retracts customized, bent, cut, fiddled-with, fitted, installed, and tested. About 4 hours work.
The sign of an experienced builder/flyer. Lots of room around the wheel when retracted.
Retracts always bend, bind, jam, slam, refuse to retract or jam in the "up" position*.
They generally refuse to do their job when too confined like modellers stuck in basements instead of at Rogo Field. ;)
Frank
* see a qualified mechanic is this happens for more than 4 hours. ;D (Sorry)
Forward and top fuselage under construction.
It's sort of like a puzzle that I make up as I go along.
More work on the fuselage and the wing-top.
Looks amazing! :D
Looking great!
Wiring done. It seems there's about 18 miles of wiring in the wing!
Anyway, the motors all turn in the directions I want, and the retracts work.
Total weight so far is 1750 grams, or about a couple ounces less than 4 pounds. Hopefully, I can keep it under 5 pounds including covering and battery.
I'm on-and-off worried that the tail is a bit too small, but (there are 3 rudder/fins) it is almost the same area as my 60-size Mustang which weighs about twice as much, so I'm guessing/hoping it'll be okay.
Next: finish the nacelles, maybe make my own spinners, and make a battery hatch.
This really is an amazing project Michael. Well done, Sir. :)
Michael,
re: "I'm on-and-off worried that the tail is a bit too small, but..."
I don't know if you are using model plans or scale 3 views. One of the guidelines I was told in WW2 models is that tail feathers should be enlarged by at least 15% compared to true scale.
For what it is worth.
Frank
Due to compromises in construction, this will be a "semi-scale" rendition.
Covering and some detailing underway.
Quote from: Frank v B on May 30, 2020, 10:51:04 PM
Michael,
re: "I'm on-and-off worried that the tail is a bit too small, but..."
I don't know if you are using model plans or scale 3 views. One of the guidelines I was told in WW2 models is that tail feathers should be enlarged by at least 15% compared to true scale.
For what it is worth.
Frank
All three fins/rudders have been enlarged.
All major construction, covering, radio installation, power installation is done.
Total weight is 5 pounds with battery.
I still have to build a battery tray, adjust linkages and adjust throws.
I'll do additional decorations after a successful flight.
I may add an ounce or two of nose weight.
Now I'm waiting for a sub 10 km wind sunny and warm day to fly it!
It flew today. It was not the best maiden weather (gusty, from the west, oscillating wind) but Michael achieved it.
The take-off was absolutely perfect and the flight looked like everything went well. Bumpy landing because of the gusts. Great flying Michael.
Frank
Thanks Frank for the encouragement and help.
Here's a great photo by Andy, taken after the maiden.
Congratulations Michael on a brilliant project climax.
That's a great picture!
Questions for
@Michael as I am planning my set-up for the Lancaster:
1- Did you use one ESC per motor?
2- Did you use "Y" connectors to link all ESC to one motor channel of the receiver?
3- I understand that you used one large battery. What is the wiring diagram to the motors?
Thank you, trying to learn from the expert.
Guy
Quote from: GuyOReilly on June 09, 2020, 02:51:14 PM
Questions for @Michael as I am planning my set-up for the Lancaster:
1- Did you use one ESC per motor?
2- Did you use "Y" connectors to link all ESC to one motor channel of the receiver?
3- I understand that you used one large battery. What is the wiring diagram to the motors?
Thank you, trying to learn from the expert.
Guy
1. One ESC per motor. All motors wired in parallel; not in series.
2. 3 Y connectors, all into the throttle channel.
3. I'll make a drawing and post it later.
4. I also used a separate BEC to power the receiver since I'm using the equivalent of 12 servos (that includes the retracts and 4 ESCs). I'll include that in the drawing.
Thank you
@Michael Pictures will be very useful.
2nd and 3rd flights.
Photos by Glenn N.
Just caught a bit of the flight and the landing. Just amazing.
Quote from: GuyOReilly on June 09, 2020, 03:22:43 PM
Thank you @Michael
Pictures will be very useful.
Ask any questions.
Anyone can feel free to verify or find errors.
Do the esc have internal BEC?
Quote from: Gregor77 on June 09, 2020, 07:34:30 PM
Do the esc have internal BEC?
Yes, but they don't have enough power for the number of servos, retracts and throttles.
Some say to cut the red wire, of the 3-radio wires, that plugs into the throttle slot, to avoid interference, but I didn't, and am having no problems.
My understanding is the red wire should be cut. As you said. It can mess with the voltage to the RX. Especially if running an external BEC.
Thank you for your drawing
@Michael , now let me see if I understand this correctly... ???
1- The Y Connectors only have the signal (blue) wire active and going to the receiver in the motor channel.
2- The other 2 wires are cut between the receiver and the ESCs.
3- The red are all wired/soldered together.
4- The blacks are all wired/soldered together.
5- There are 2 colours crossing over for the right side motors so they can run in reverse.
6- Deans (or other types of connector) is needed between the battery and the BEC.
7- The BEC connects in the BATT position of the receiver and has a MALE Dean (or other connector type) to the battery.
8- The motors should run as soon as the battery is connected AND the transmitter motor position in a position
other than in the OFF position. If the transmitter is at idle or off position, no signal in the blue wire goes to the ESCs, therefore the motors are not turning.
Let me know if this is accurate.
Once again, a picture is really simple to understand, thank you.
Guy
The blue lines represent the 3-wire radio leads (except the small ones at the motors). If you want, you can cut the red wire, but the other 2 must be connected to the receiver. As mentioned, I didn't cut any on mine.
The BEC simply has to tap into the battery for power. It doesn't really matter where this happens.
Again, the blue lines are 3 wire radio leads.
I split the diagram into 2 diagrams: motor-wiring and radio-wiring.
The BEC is shown in both diagrams.
The blue wire in the wiring-diagram represents the 3-wires from servos, throttles, retracts, etc. You do not have to cut anything.
If you want, some people suggest to cut the red (orange wire) to prevent interference, but I didn't cut anything, and I have no problems.
@Michael Thank you for taking the time to explain this rather simple thing to me. :-[
I now understand it fully and I am confident with the wiring that will be required.
The servo wires and Y connectors are all standard sizes.
The rest of the wire will be the same size as the battery or ESC.
I am looking forward to starting my project, once Minimoa is finished... One big project at the time! ;D
Guy
I hope the diagrams are not confusing; I didn't imply anything about wire sizes. In fact, wire gauge, length, types of connectors, etc., should be based on the requirements of your own power system.
When you get to that point in your construction, feel free to ask questions.
A few more recent images.