I would like to start some discussion on the fine tuning of the TEMAC Team Racing, Piker Class BL.
Here are some thoughts and I would appreciate your comments.
Observers:
It is obvious that we need an observer for each pilot.
The models are too fast for a flag man to be effective and reporting cuts may be problematic for the same reason.
We need a lap counters to create lap charts.
Speed:
Estimating a turn of 150ft at each end and using Ed's recorded speed of 1:22 min. for the race then Ed's speed was 97.75 Mph.
2S Battery or entry level class:
I saw Ken's model on two cells and it was marginally slower than the three cell version. I doubt that this combination would be suitable as an entry level class. We would have to come up with a much less powerful combination. I'm open to suggestions. We need something with a top speed around 60Mph.
My personal feeling is an entry level will pull entries from the full class. The secret to exciting racing is in numbers. Fewer entries are boring and will quickly loose interest.
I would rather have novice class using the standard spec model and restrict it as to who can run it and for how long they can run in it. If we went this route I would expect the teams to be responsible for the novices and use the class as a farm team for the main team.
Points System:
I'm happy with the points system as all teams are very close as are the pilots who competed.
Jack.
2S is an interesting idea. I might just try that for mine :)
For a 60mph plane, maybe a stryker class? A delta foamie like a stryker or my projeti (which isn't made anymore I believe) is a great introductory plane into higher speed flight. It slows down really well and doesn't stall due to the delta wing. It's also Elevon controls, so similar to a pylon racer with no rudder. Just a suggestion.
In the 90s era Piker class races, each pilot had an observer and a flag man. I wasn't there for the race yesterday. Is this already the same setup for the Nooners?
Ben
I agree that a race spotter per pilot is needed, to record position.
Not sure about a flag man, for the corners. I appreciate it relies on trust, but I like the honour system.
The points system is awesome.
I drew against Ed and Pike in my heat. I'd be interested to know what the pilot-heat selection system is. I don't want to always have them in the heats! Next time I may meet them in the final!!
I like the thought of entry level racing. And an off the shelf PnP or BnF model would be ideal. Not a Nooner. We may need to wait until next year though.
It was an awesome first race, Jack. I loved it.
I still think that using park zone warbirds would be the best entry level model. Lots of people have them, especially pilots who have graduated from a trainer. It might be worth a trial.
As for the nooners, I didn't see the race, but what about making the distance between the pylons greater? The speed would stay the same but it would make the race longer, and give the pilots more time to recover after the turns.
I agree that a spotter per pilot might be a good idea. As a "judge of fact" for the first race to count laps of the first place finisher it was a challenge to keep eyes on position of even just one place.
The top four overall finishers without trying to sound boastful are experienced go fast flyers. One of which only flew his plane a handful of times prior to racing it. I personally put in a lot of time flying my plane to try to do well against some very capable competition. I feel that now that the others have one race under there belt they might know just what to do to make themselves more competitive and practice if they wanted. It did not seem to me that my plane was markedly faster than the other planes I just took a shorter circuit. As this is a for fun class I have and will continue to offer any assistance to the other racers(unless there name is Glen, Robert or Frank). I hope the racers that finished lower in the standings do not get discouraged. The reason I'm in this is to push myself and try to improve and hope that others will challenge.
I do have one question in regard to the points system though. I searched and could not find the breakdown for points awarded. Please don't think I'm "complaining" but I don't understand how a first in the heat race followed by a first in the final only resulted in a two point lead. I'm sure once I find the breakdown it will be clear.
Thanks
I think the scoring system is excellent. I like how it rewards participation toward the team score. i know those who can't make it have very good reasons, but it's nice to recognize the efforts of those who are able to come out and get the heart hate elevated.
I know Jack knows the system we used in the past, that worked very well... I dare say "flawlessly" with planes at these speeds. The only down side is it required a volunteer spotter for each pilot (shouldn't be a problem with the team scenario) and a flagman per plane. Each flagman was responsible for only one plane and simply dropped a coloured flag at the plane passed the far pylon (the flagman's near pylon). The Pilot's caller would shout the pilots name or designated colour at the plane passed the lap count line and the race marshal would put a check on the box beside that name. The first pilot with all 10 boxes filled was the winner.
For an intermediate level racer, may I suggest the Nooner? ;D Remember, the Nooner was designed for the "sport" class of pylon racing. It was never meant to be raced at the speeds we're flying them now. Yes, I agree that they are good for the racing we're doing, but they're even better as a race trainer on more modest power systems. The speeds would be downright boring for the hot shots, but quite exciting for the average pilots. They used to fly on Speed 400 motors on 7 cells at about 10A. That's about the same as a two cell packs now, but we would need to limit to only 10A max somehow. For that I suggest each pilot, at the beginning of the race day, be required to bring their plane to registration and demonstrate the max current draw to the contest director. It would only take a few second for each plane , and would be the responsibility of the pilot to set-up the quick demonstration. With proof of current draw under 10A the pilot is registered. Of course, the honour system would need to be in effect as a full pack need to be used, and it's assumed nothing is changed after registration. Someone cheating would be quite apparent during the race as with this system, the planes should be very well matched.
Robert
Points system from the TEMAC Race Series section of the main homepage (not the forum):
Individual 1st Place 2nd Place 3rd Place 4th Place DNF
Race (heat) 5 pts. 4 pts. 3 pts. 2 pts. 1 pt.
B Main (semi) 7 pts 6 pts 5 pts 4 pts 3 pts
A Main (final) 10 pts 9 pts 8pts 7 pts 5 pts
Ken Coleman I don't think uses the forum very much so here are his comments. Jack.
Thanks Jack and Simon for the fine pylons and an exciting first race! I learned a lot from this experience and have these suggestions for future races.
1. All pilots should have a spotter/lap counter.
2 I think we should reinstate the Formosa lap count/scoring program.
3. White is a bad colour for visibility in most conditions – also Monocote has a high reflectivity which makes it invisible at certain angles. Ultracote is less reflective. Looks like
yellow, orange, red are the most visible colours!
4. Racing before 2pm presents a sun hazard. [don't ask me how I know]
5. A 2-cell class would give some incentive to potential racers. I have tested the 2-cell format and even though it is about the same speed as the Formosa, it is markedly more manageable
than the 3-cell Nooner. Might be a plan to ask the pilots to try it and give an opinion?
6. Congratulations Ed for the best race flying we have ever seen and for setting the benchmark for aspiring winners! Also thanks for your help and advice trimming my plane!!!
Lastly, I am really upset with myself for ending up the victim of my own prediction. My sincere apologies for tainting the first race with a close call – it will not happen again as I intend to follow my recommendations backed by hours of practise before next race.
Thanks team for your ear! I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Just to comment on Mikes suggestion for entry level and really on all expansion of the racing. We have to bear in mind how much appeal this has for the club membership as a whole. Any "special" event cuts into the regular activities at the field. Most seem willing to accept some displacement but the racing with more than one class would evolve into a Mini Fun Fly time frame and we may have to look at curtailing some of the others.
If we did go with a slower entry level such as war birds I would want each "Senior" racing team to form a "Junior" racing team and support it with training, expertise and encouragement. It would also be a super pool of spotters etc. We would need to develop a method of judging when a "junior" was ready to fly "senior".
When you have an entry level class two things become apparent very quickly. Some participants want to move up and out of the class very quickly and the second is that many want to stay having found their level of comfort. There is not a lot you can do in either case but it can result in an un-even performance range and that can frustrate the comfortable pilots.
One other point, we have just had one race and I won't make major changes until we have a few more under our collective belts. The spotter thing we have to change immediately and I will think long and hard on the course length increase for next race. Some of you still building may want to take note of Ken's comments regarding colour.
My personal observation, based on many years in auto racing officiating, is that this was one of the best start ups I have ever seen. The patience and cooperation was second to none. We really have a good thing going here let's not screw it up by changing too much too quickly
Jack.
I agree with Simon regarding "entry level" racing.
I strongly suggest any stock Parkzone warbird, PNP or BNF.
They all use similar power systems, are about the same size and weight, are all available at local hobby shops, and parts are readily available.
They are flown by beginners to experts.
They are not too fast.
All things considered, they are cheaper than a Nooner, can be used for regular sport flying, and can be used on Warbirds day.
I also agree with waiting for next year.
Guys,
The first race is done. A copy of my notes to Jack after the race.
- great to have four planes in the air in all 3 races. More would be tough, fewer would be boring.
- surprising but avoiding collisions is not a focus. Racing your own race is fine. Lots of sky in 3 dimensions.
- they are quick planes!!!- any faster would be scary and dangerous. The 18 amp max was perfect but for advanced flyers.
- this was my first pylon race ever, believe it or not.
- fun bunch of guys.
A few extra observations:
1) I was a second place spotter in the second race. Impossible because you lose track of 1,3 and 4. If someone passes, you don't know who it is and you lose second place plane. The only solution is a lap counter for each racer. That would have solved the Piker/Glenn lap issue as well.
2) I feel every pilot should have a mandatory trim flight before the racing starts. Ken Coleman, I think, entered the race cold. So did Bobby. Bobby was smart to pull out and just fly around the course.
3) Thanks to Simon for the instant OK to letting me launch for Bobby who did not feel comfortable throwing and flying. Much appreciated and it did not cost anyone a place.
A lot of fun but very nerve wracking. These planes are not just a Sunday afternoon walk in the park. My other Nooner (10 years old) has 250 watts going through it versus the 200 watts for Temac racing
Who is this Ed guy?? Which planet did he come from? 8)
Frank
This is Ed's day job......
Quote from: Frank v B on June 11, 2013, 10:26:51 PM
These planes are not just a Sunday afternoon walk in the park. My other Nooner (10 years old) has 250 watts going through it versus the 200 watts for Temac racing
Frank
This was my point earlier. I think you guys are scaring any potential new participants away with the talk (and demonstration) of the speed of the Nooners. I cautioned at the beginning that putting 200+ watts through these planes was going to make them very fast. It's not the fault of the planes. These planes were designed as entry level pylon racers to be raced much slower than the "open" class at the time. The open class racers were more the size of Ed's Pyro. The Nooners are HUGE compared to that plane, but if you pack enough power into them, they'll go pretty quick.
If you fly your Nooner around at half (or less) power, its actually a very sedate, yet predictable flying plane. This is the message we need to share in order to encourage more people to participate. I know this is the message that Ed tries to convey when he demonstrates the low speed, and even glide, capabilities of his Nooner.
People should be encouraged to get a Nooner, fly it as a fun sport plane until the plane starts to feel comfortable and even slow, then start upping the speed to start racing when they feel comfortable.
Robert
Like I have said before, the Nooner is the nicest flying plane I have ever flown. Predictable. Direct control. Responsive.
Just getting the creative juices flowing in my brain and I wondered......
Are there any other designs available for the Piker class speed 400 pylon race series?
Yes, you can design your own, if it's creative juices you want to appease.
Jack.
I said creative, Jack, not ingenious!
Quote from: Papa on July 22, 2013, 10:20:22 AM
Yes, you can design your own, if it's creative juices you want to appease.
Jack.
i have one in mind... but i'm a little un-sure how check if the wing area meets the requirements
I have seen the Nooners fly up at Orangeville and they are fast enough for club racing, just keep your designed program, that way it will be successful.
If you learn to fly tight on the race course they will seem faster, its the same with E F1.
Someone should look at putting a v-tail on a Nooner, that will make it still a better flying plane and will fly very tight around the pylons, with the nose not dropping or digging in.
Ken
Damn it Ken, you've spoiled my plan for 2014!!!
I was going to post something but remembered I haven't hugged my trophy yet today
Quote from: Polecat on July 22, 2013, 12:54:40 PM
I have seen the Nooners fly up at Orangeville and they are fast enough for club racing, just keep your designed program, that way it will be successful.
If you learn to fly tight on the race course they will seem faster, its the same with E F1.
Someone should look at putting a v-tail on a Nooner, that will make it still a better flying plane and will fly very tight around the pylons, with the nose not dropping or digging in.
Ken
say someone was looking at doing that to their crashed nooner (not naming any names) ... would the v-tail be enough to turn the plane or should
i they still install ailerons?
Lol "should i they" very inconspicuous Greg :P
Quote from: battlestu on July 22, 2013, 02:34:10 PM
Quote from: Polecat on July 22, 2013, 12:54:40 PM
I have seen the Nooners fly up at Orangeville and they are fast enough for club racing, just keep your designed program, that way it will be successful.
If you learn to fly tight on the race course they will seem faster, its the same with E F1.
Someone should look at putting a v-tail on a Nooner, that will make it still a better flying plane and will fly very tight around the pylons, with the nose not dropping or digging in.
Ken
say someone was looking at doing that to their crashed nooner (not naming any names) ... would the v-tail be enough to turn the plane or should i they still install ailerons?
You would still need ailerons and just one servo for the elevators.
Anyone know if there are plans or kits around for the Kaplouie?
http://community.fortunecity.ws/marina/tidal/192/sport.html (http://community.fortunecity.ws/marina/tidal/192/sport.html)
And did Rob Nelson come out with a design?
Look at the bottom of the link there is a .dxf plan available, he says.
Jack.
Link doesn't work. I'm not that stupid Jack!
:-)
Everyone cover your eyes for Jack's anticipated response!
Andy
Todd was one of the guys who'd travel to our events, from Syracuse, for pylon racing "back in the day". I haven't seen him since. I could probably track him down if you like.
I'm going to try to find the plans for my Morphine. That plane made the nooner's stand still ;D
Hope you like this "hunger" you've created Jack/Robert/Frank!
Hunger for speed.
Hunger for technical excellence.
Hunger for a win!
I was going to replay but it's not worth the effort, Mary has the air conditioning turned off and it's hot and humid.
I have models to fix and other important stuff!
Have a nice day y'all!
Jack.
Quote from: sihinch on July 23, 2013, 04:13:30 PM
Hope you like this "hunger" you've created Jack/Robert/Frank!
Hunger for speed.
Hunger for technical excellence.
Hunger for a win!
Nooners might be a gateway to something! Use at own risk!
Cheech & Chong - What do you guys want? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RmxW4GJ1GA#)
Finally settled down long enough to write about today's Nooner racing at TEMAC. And here are my thoughts...
BEST DAY EVER!
I'm hooked. Need to do it again!
The rest of my day is going to suck in comparison to the fun I had at the club today.
Agreed!
The Nooner racing was a lot of fun, and the flying after was also great!
A terrific afternoon at TEMAC. ;D
12 pilots I believe! Great turn out and some great racing. I had the opportunity to be a spectator for a few races and it was VERY exciting! The closeness and speed of the planes is perfect. Two more races left and I'm going to try and regain my title!
Watch out guys more Mr Nice guy!
Quote from: Ededge2002 on July 28, 2013, 08:44:41 PM
Watch out guys more Mr Nice guy!
Does that mean you're not going to race in the final again???? ;D
I think that was the name of Ken's plane.
I think he's suggesting some sort of accident may occur that would make it unavailable for the next race..
Some how Simon has hacked my post and removed the "No" from "no more Mr Nice guy". I don't know how he did it but it was him. I bet Ken helped him just like how they knocked me out of the final. Who's got the target on there back now mister? Hahaha
Check the news letters, the results are in!
J.
Jack told me the racing yesterday was great. Sorry I had to miss it. Refereed the Niagara Triathlon. My prayer was answered in my good luck post to my team mates of Team Spades (the fast guys)
"Good luck, race safely and most importantly.... someone, anyone, from any team... get Ed!!!" ;D ;D
I hope to make the next race.
Frank
I just managed to cut the tail off a donkey (Nooner!)
I cut the horizontal and vertical stabilisers out of Bobby's old Nooner and realigned them (incidence wise) to the wing. I also changed the elevator servo (to eliminate the play.)
Now all I need is the new "super hot" motor and then it'll be ready to test......
I think this Baby could be quick....
Jack,
Since Ed was so sporting in letting someone else win last Sunday's race, I am going to hold off on the 3rd and newest award with the name HPNRWNINEM*.
Frank.
* you figure it out! ;D
Something something Nooner Race Win Now It's Not Ed McMann?
Quote from: sihinch on July 30, 2013, 10:11:06 PM
I just managed to cut the tail off a donkey (Nooner!)
I cut the horizontal and vertical stabilisers out of Bobby's old Nooner and realigned them (incidence wise) to the wing. I also changed the elevator servo (to eliminate the play.)
Now all I need is the new "super hot" motor and then it'll be ready to test......
I think this Baby could be quick....
just make sure it's only fast in rounds 2,3,4. Tanking in round one is your pathway to success in the standings!
Quote from: Frank v B on July 30, 2013, 10:51:20 PM
Jack,
Since Ed was so sporting in letting someone else win last Sunday's race, I am going to hold off on the 3rd and newest award with the name HPNRWNINEM*.
Frank.
* you figure it out! ;D
Don't worry I don't plan on doing it again!
Simon, you were close:
I am going to hold off on the 3rd and newest award with the name HPNRWNINEM*.
"Highest Placing Nooner Race Winner Whose Name Is Not Ed McM."
Frank
My Nooner is currently being repaired; I'm still hanging in.
Excellent!
Nooner repaired.
Ugly, but flyable.
Good luck to Mike and Glenn of Team Hearts! Hoping you get 1 & 2 in the final.
Ed told me he wasn't feeling confident this weekend!!!!
I was going to let you win this one Simon. Too bad your off gallivanting around the globe. As the wolves are gaining momentum I think its time I prop UP!
A little bird told me that Hearts took the win!!!
Way to go team!
(It was on the BBC news at 10!)
Wooooo!!!! Team Hearts is moving up the standings!
I warned you guys, I wasn't coming out to race, I was coming out to win!
Some people my remember things a little differently today. But in my mind, it was pretty much like this...
Ricky Bobby's First Race (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riBA-FsJJmY#ws)
Shake and Bake!!!! ;D
I really enjoyed the racing today and learned that it is a really intense exercise. Wow, it is fast.
I shot a couple of vids of launches that you might enjoy watching, then commenting on the techniques (or lack thereof). Have fun!
This video is of the Consolation group. Now I know that Consolation usually means you have some consolation about not quite making the big league. Now I have found out from watching this competition there is some other consoling happening here.
Link to first video:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41094129/CAM00040.mp4 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41094129/CAM00040.mp4)
Now we have the pros launching. They were in the finals group...no consoling here.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41094129/CAM00041.mp4 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41094129/CAM00041.mp4)
Vic W
Nice videos!
That's my plane crashing in the first video.
As much as I find this extremely challenging, I regret informing you all that the damage to my plane is very minor, and it will be ready to race next time. ;D
Wow I try to spread out the winning trophy and this is the thanks I get? I recommend you sleep with and spend your days with the trophy by your side till the next race...
My precious! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk4Ntcq5uNg#)
Here are today's results.
Sorry they are coming out so late, I fell asleep watching TV after supper.
Must have been more beat than I thought.
Enjoy
Team Clubs all the way!
OK, my Nooner is ready to fly.
True, it looks more like an exercise in CA, packing tape and epoxy, and maybe the motor shaft is bent a tiny bit, but I intend to lose the honourable way! ;D
well done on the racing to day boys! Some great action and fierce flying!
Congrats to Frank for taking the crown this week.
The field is very competitive which is good for the series. Can't wait for the rematch.
Wow! Frank won! Cool. I think it's so fantastic that we're having such a variety of winners. That's perfect for a race series. It's so nice of Ed to let everyone have a turn at winning ;D
Congrats Frank!!!
I was just trying to follow our motto. I would like that be courteous part removed before the next race!
Yes. That's been MY motto all summer... to let other people win for a change :-[ Ugh!
Thanks to Ed and Glenn for letting me win. I am still trying to figure out whether Ed tried to block Glenn by nicking Glenn's prop with his wing or Glenn trying to slow down Ed by slicing his wing. Seemed like a roller derby blocking move.
As for Piker's nice comment:
"I think it's so fantastic that we're having such a variety of winners. That's perfect for a race series. It's so nice of Ed to let everyone have a turn at winning"
Problem: too many people will have bragging rights all winter long without resolution.
I hereby challenge all winners to a final race immediately after the next race. One race, all winners in the air at the same time. From memory that would be Ed, Ken, Mike, yours truly and the winner of the last race. 5 planes ...if there is a new winner for the last race. Four if there is a repeat winner. ;D 8) ;D 8) :D
Frank
Don't forget Simon!
But isn't the overall winner determined by points? I think Ed has that one tied up.
Please ignore Frank. This win has gone to his head or he's painting and has way too much time on his hands.
The individual championship will be determined by points as will the team championship.
We could have a ceremonial end of season Race of Champions for all the winners. It would be for bragging rights only and we could take the winning plane and put it in our Hall of Fame for 12 months.
What do you think?
Jack.
Yes Papa, the overall winner is the total points person... as you designed it. No question, no challenge, no second thoughts, no regrets.
I just think it would be neat to have a final shootout at the end of the season when everyone has had a season of practice. Several of us have not had the luxury to have attended all races. I could only participate in 3 so far. I will be cancelling (delaying) a job to be able to participate in the last race. Also, we will have the entire winter to repair the carnage from this last race. ;D
No I was not painting today. 8) Your call. If I get shot down, I get shot down!
Frank
Frank just wants another shot at me. Its the trophy it does things to the race winner like make them feel invincible or some kind of lord of the rings insanity.
I guess Frank wasn't paying attention during my qualifiers. I'm going to spank him next race just like I spanked everyone else. (My bet is he will like it!)
My precious! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk4Ntcq5uNg#)
I have a cunning plan for the next race!
http://youtu.be/Gp5St7hORyw (http://youtu.be/Gp5St7hORyw)
Does it involve cookies and sweets?
Quote from: Ededge2002 on September 16, 2013, 07:20:20 PM
Frank just wants another shot at me. Its the trophy it does things to the race winner like make them feel invincible or some kind of lord of the rings insanity.
I guess Frank wasn't paying attention during my qualifiers. I'm going to spank him next race just like I spanked everyone else. (My bet is he will like it!)
My precious! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk4Ntcq5uNg#)
Darwin clearly has a lot of gene pool housekeeping to do!
Quote from: Ededge2002 on September 16, 2013, 09:22:03 PM
Does it involve cookies and sweets?
i can be bought for cookies and sweets!
Hey Jack, how long does the average race take? Also what are the average lap times?
Colin
I have a timer that measures full throttle time. Consistently times are in the 1:20 range after a race. But that isn't measuring the time that I'm not at full throttle hahahaha yea right!
Approximately 7.5 - 9.0 seconds per lap and 1:15 - 1:20 per race depending on seeding etc.
Jack.
Quote from: Papa on September 26, 2013, 06:57:21 PM
Approximately 7.5 - 9.0 seconds per lap and 1:15 - 1:20 per race depending on seeding etc.
Jack.
Jack What is the length of the two pole course 300ft or more. The times are pretty good but that's with a hot motor and a 3c battery.
We have never done any timing with the F 1's on the legal course yet but I think a 1:15 would be a really good time and a flying a very tight course.
We will see next year.
Keep up the good work with your club pylon.
Ken
Thanks Ken, It's 300' more or less.
Jack.
Quote from: Papa on September 26, 2013, 06:57:21 PM
Approximately 7.5 - 9.0 seconds per lap and 1:15 - 1:20 per race depending on seeding etc.
Jack.
Thanks Jack!
Colin
Just heard from Etienne at Icare-rc, Nooners will be back in stock in a few weeks.
Anyone want to try another group buy? I will organize.
Let me know here....
How much is one?
Etienne is saying somewhere $129 - $149 for the ARC version, depending on how many we order.
And the wing will be 1 piece this time.
I look at this and wonder if the wing area includes the portion covered by the fuse as it is calculated in the Piker rules. Its just a little short of wing area and it has a 12% airfoil. Wonder how much the physical measurement's are out.
http://www.icare-rc.com/cavallino.htm (http://www.icare-rc.com/cavallino.htm)
Yes i'm interested ;D this racing stuff looks like fun
I have an apology to make. The results of the last event were slightly askew as I had inadvertently used the "B" main points structure rather than the final points. so here is the final adjusted standings.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
Jack.
Anyone else other than Imran interested in a Nooner?
Imran - are you still interested? So far it just looks like you, so could be $149 for the bare airframe.
I may be interested, Is that going to be next years racing plane?
The rules for the aircraft are not changing for next year. What is changing is a limit on airframes.
This year the Nooner was the only airframe allowed to race. Next year other airframes that meet the rules will be allowed to race also.
So yes, the Nooner can race next year. But it won't be the only design.
hmm.. i'll think about it then..
If we're not placing a group order, then would we just be ordering it on our own?
The "group" may be 2 or 3 people at most, at the moment.
I was offering to organize because this is what I'd said I'd do. But if you're happy to order on your own, then that's fine.
Please let me know either way (because I may order another for me.)
Okay, I'll have to talk to my dad about it and get back to you
Thanks
I'm on the fence about ordering a spare. I haven't decided my plan of attack for next year and the airplane fund is occupied with one project already. If we are to organize a group buy could we set a deadline date? That would give us fence sitters a time line to decide.
Agreed with Ed
Hi Simon,
I would like to order another nooner. However, can you remind me (us) what are the requirements for next year?