I saw this advertised on Great Hobbies' website. It is a medium size (62" wingspan) flying-boat-style model airplane balsa kit. I found the Value Planes website, but could find no other information.
A further search yielded no links to any build threads, reviews nor photos of finished models.
Because it looks like something that I could fly from land, water or snow, and because I'm stuck at home so much (thanks, COVID), I bought it to entertain myself.
I cleaned a reasonable area on my building table and opened the kit.
My first impression was that this was a good value for the price. There is a lot of very well laser cut sheets of balsa and plywood. There is a small bag of hardware and a large sheet of a printed drawing showing a built-up structure.
There are no building instructions whatsoever. I have no idea where to start, but I'll figure it out. Also, there are no ailerons on this model. I'm pretty sure I can add ailerons without too much effort.
Those drawings look eerily like the ones put out by Maratuka and Pilot models 20 plus years ago.
Happy building. Go make some dust. ;D
Frank
Thanks Frank.
The laser cutting is really nice, but due to the large number of parts, it took me more than 2 hours to cut everything loose from the balsa and plywood sheets. All parts are separated, or in plastic bags, by component (fuselage, wings, etc.).
I'm perplexed by the total lack of instructions, but I think I can do this. I once built a Sig 1/5 scale Cub, and the fuselage was completely assembled without glue, held together with elastics, and glued. I'll try that approach.
Good luck. Looks a bit like that other plane you built and you love flying.....you know the one! The white one with the blue windows. ;D
Nice looking model.
"No ailerons", but there are clearly servo mounting provisions out in the wing for them ???
Is the trailing edge squared off, so that strip ailerons would be possible, or will you have to cut away some structure?
For sure it needs them, not enough dihedral for rudder control to be effective.
edit - DOH! - I should have looked more carefully :(
What I thought were servo mounts are tip float mounts!
Actually Pat, you're right.
I guess I missed this because there are no instructions.
The wing halves are built in one piece each, (there are no separate parts for ailerons; there are parts to hold a servo) but the drawings clearly show an option for ailerons. I didn't notice before.
The ailerons will have to be cut out, both they and the wing sections will have to be re-enforced and strengthened.
Faked myself out ;D
Strange that there are no build threads (that I could find). The owner has an account on RCG, but very few posts.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3244361-Naked-wood-Nieuport-28-2825mm-wingspan
Some of the models that Great Hobbies lists have instructions that you can download, others say instructions are included.
But the Seagull - nothing??
FWIW, I liked the look of the "Cloud Walker 65" - so I ordered one :)
It at least claims there are instructions included ;)
I couldn't find any build threads anywhere. When I finish this one, Ill post it on RCGroups.
The other kits are quite nice, and as easy as they seem to build, they do seem targeted towards experienced builders.
As I suspected, the fuselage can mostly be assembled without glue, and will be glued later. It does take some fiddling and minor adjustments, but it all fits nicely.
It would be very difficult to build if each piece was glued on as work progressed; I have to loosen previous joints to fit additional formers and other pieces as they are added to the assembly.
Fuselage inner structure is assembled and glued.
There is still balsa sheet surface to be applied, but I will leave this until the major components are built and I can figure out where the electronics and control parts need to be.
I'm taking my time building because I am giving a lot of thought into the assembly and gluing. Without instructions, I need to pre-plan the building in my head before committing to glue.
Fin and rudder assembled and glued. Without plans nor instructions, but with a diagram, I care fully put this together on a flat surface. Not hinged nor sanded yet.
A few wood strip parts were missing, but were easily cut from scrap.
Stabilizer and glued. Also, without plans nor instructions, but with a diagram, put together on a flat surface. Elevators not joined, hinged nor sanded yet.
Again, a few wood strip parts were missing, but were easily cut from scrap.
Tip floats assembled and glued. as per the diagram. This was put together like the fuselage; mostly assembled and then glued.
Motor pod assembled and glued.
The wings were also able to be mostly assembled before gluing. These are not pinned down, nor built over plans. Construction is basically tabs and notches, and the parts fit is snug. I keep referring to the drawings, but it's no substitute for plans or instructions. The only problem is that some parts (spars, etc.) were perhaps only a millimeter longer or shorter at some ends, and this was very hard to observe until things were glued. The lack of instructions remains a serious challenge. Anyway, a little bit of sanding, repositioning and creative gluing solved any obstacles I faced.
Back to the fuselage.
Without instructions or an order to the construction, I assembled the side sheeting before gluing it to the fuselage, to measure whether the sides overlap the top and bottom, or the other way around. Once I confirmed that the tops overlap the side sheeting, I glued on the side sheeting.
Next, I will bevel the bottom of the structure and the bottom sheeting, and glue it to the frame. I'll leave the top open for now, to facilitate the radio and linkages installation.
Adding balsa surfaces to the fuselage and wings.
As much as I enjoy building this kit, I've come to the conclusion that it is definitely not for a beginner, especially because it lacks any kind of instructions. I find I'm using techniques from over 40 years of model building experiences.
I'm using green masking tape and heavy batteries to hold things down as they dry.
Wing sheeting added.
Wings sanded and sheeting trimmed.
Ailerons marked between 2 rear spars, cut out and sanded. A front edge will be glued onto the ailerons, and sanded to a bevel, and then hinged.
Ailerons trimmed and sanded to shape, and end-ribs cut from scrap and glued in.
Leading edge of ailerons glued on, and center-hinge line marked.
Leading edge of ailerons shaped and sanded to a bevel.
Wing tips glued on and shaped/sanded.
Despite no instructions nor plans, the progress is logical and based on decades of past experience.
Fuselage nose carved and sanded to shape.
Tail feathers sanded, leading moving surfaces beveled, and elevators joined with a wire.
I'll start the radio/linkages/power-system/installation next (tomorrow morning), before sheeting the fuselage top and before covering covering.
I've complained about the problems with this kit, but I realize I have enjoyed working on it so far. The included hardware package is more comprehensive than I thought, and the laser cutting is close to exceptional.
The plywood parts for the aileron servo holder/hatch are a tight fit. Nice!
Magnets (included) for the snug-fitting battery hatch fit tightly and securely in the laser holes. Just a drop of CA glue locks them in place.
I decided to replace the plywood windshield with my own removable balsa version (better fit), so I can have better access to the inside of the fuselage if I need.
Wire cables and sleaves are provided for the tail controls, and they fit nice and snug within the laser cut holes in the formers, but I will not be using these. The wires would come out of the fuselage under the stabilizer, and I prefer they exit above the stabilizer, for added protection from water when float-flying.
Elevator, rudder and ailerons hinged (but not glued). Tail temporarily in place. Servos installed.
The tail is not straight with the wings. I'll have to shim the fin and stabilizer.
Once the radio and linkages are fully installed, I'll install the power system.
Control horns and pushrods for the tail are temporarily installed. Everything will be taken off when the model will be covered.
The kit comes with good quality screws and EZ-connector type hardware, but I chose to use other brand units.
I also made Z-bends in the wire for simplicity. KISS!
The pushrods and control horns also came with the kit.
Pushrods set up on a straight path to the tail control horns. Plastic sleeves glued at various locations.
Fuselage top glued on; the rear portion with grooved slots/holes for the pushrods.
The screws on the elevator are temporary.
Aileron linkages done (of course, hinges are not glued yet).
I use a Z-bending pliers. It makes work much easier.
I still have to mount, or figure out how to mount, the tip floats.
The drawings do not indicate how to secure them to the wings (other than through a slot), nor how far down they should be.
I'll work on the power system first. The kit box, website and drawings suggest a 3S system. Considering the size and weight of this plane, I'll be using a 4S system (E-Flite 25 870 KV motor, 60 amp ESC, and an 11/8 prop, or a similar 3-blade if the 11 is too big).
Wiring is all done.
Next: more sanding (and maybe some fiberglassing/painting), covering, power pod installation, and tip-floats installation.
Moving right along Michael!
I posted earlier that I had ordered one of the Value Hobby kits from Great Hobbies, the Skywalker 65.
It arrived late last week, and I dove right in for a change :)
Here is where I am right now, all framed up. 20 ounces as it sits, no electronics in it yet. It is bigger than the picture makes it look, too big to fit in my shop in one piece!
Unlike Michael, I did get "instructions". But they are pretty terse, and gloss over all the tricky parts.
Quality was good overall, but I did swap out the wing sheeting because what was provided was just too heavy.
So I would rate it as good value, but a "builders" kit that will require some experience to build.
I made a few minor changes:
-Main visual one was to add cap strips to the ribs. Just looks a lot nicer to me with them :)
-I added a few extra "sticks" in the fuselage that added a ton of stiffness to the structure. They really should have been part of the original design. (See next post for details)
- Thrust line is shown as zero-zero. I modified the fuselage parts to give it 2 degrees down and right
-I built in some washout in both tips, about 1/8"
- I will probably add a "dummy" engine cylinder, perhaps some sort of sparker. Should be fun to make :)
Left to do before covering: I want to figure out how to make the stab and rudder bolt on to make it easier to transport and store. Perhaps the landing gear as well for the same reason. Trying to decide if I will change the wing to bolt on, rather than rubber bands.
Nothing about CG on the plans. They suggest a 4S setup, but to me I think a 3S set up will be plenty. But the nose is short, so it might need the weight of the 4S?
Pat MacKenzie
Details on the added structure.
At each position where the top and bottom formers were located I added the vertical pieces shown in red, and the diagonal stiffener shown in blue.
All are 3mm x 6mm balsa, using scrap from the kit. I think the added weight for all was less than 3 grams.
The yellow arrows show what happens when the covering is shrunk, the top and bottom want to push together.
The original design did not have the vertical parts show in red, so there was nothing but the bending moment of the longerons to absorb this stress.
They are basically free to bend as the yellow arc shows. The structure felt very "springy" to me. Adding the red parts made it feel stiff.
But it was still pretty soft in torsional strength. The structure was relying on the small area of the glue joints at each station to absorb all the torsion.
This sort of structure should really be considered as being free to pivot at the joints, so adding a diagonal as shown absorbs all the torsional loads.
To see this, glue up a 3" square from 1/4" sticks. Push in on opposite corners and note the stiffness.
Now add a diagonal and repeat the stiffness test. It will basically not deflect at all.
Wow, you built quickly! It looks big!
Your 'customized' steps all make sense. I'd agree with you that these kits are a good value, but definitely for someone with a fair amount of building experience.
I hope to your plane fly this season.
@pmackenzie love Old Timer planes.
Great looking bird you have there.
Transparent covering you said?
Guy
Covering started.
Wings and fuselage nearly done.
Plane looks great!
Should be very visible in the air and on water (solid or liquid...)
Have a great day!
Guy
Thanks, Guy.
A bit more progress; moving bits covered and being hinged.
Tip floats covered. I'm now working on mounting them. (No instructions)
Tail surfaces hinged and glued in place.
The upright supports/struts for the tip floats simply fit through a slot in the servo covers, but there is nothing to hold them in place, nor is there any indication of how deep in they should rest.
I approximated the depth from another similar model, and I built hardwood boxes to hold the supports/struts in place. After careful measuring and fitting, and ensuring that I would still have access to the servos, screws, etc., everything was glued together.
I painted the supports/struts, and the power pod. Both were brush-coated with a clear gloss-finish sealing finish.
Holes drilled for access to servos.
Motor pod epoxied in place, and all wiring st up. This is a simple 4-channel model, so there was nothing difficult to wire nor program.
The model is basically finished, except for balancing (needs nose weight) and decals.
Elegant solution for the access to the servo screws.
Model looks fantastic. :D
Have a great day!
Guy
Thanks, Guy!
The model is finished, except for balancing, and (aileron, elevator and rudder) throws.
4 weeks of building fun!
I hope to maiden it this coming week.
Balanced, throws adjusted, ready for maiden.
It was a bit cold today, but with a blue sky and the sun shining, and light winds, so this model airplane was maidened.
It took-off, flew and landed great! It's a slightly heavy plane, but has plenty of power. I did a few rolls, and was able to cruise at half-throttle.
The second flight was even easier.
Congratulations on a successful first flight and many more to come.
Guy
Congrats Michael.
What was it? Box of wood to first flight in 30 days. Covid ain't all bad.
Great winter colours.
Frank
In-flight photos by David K.
The finish gives this model excellent visibility. Aerobatics and slow steady flight are easy. Takeoffs and landings (grass) are easy.
I fly for about 6 minutes on a 4-cell 5000 mah lipo batter, and use about 40% of the energy available. The battery packs remain cool after a flight.
This summer, I'll try to fly it from water.
Now that the model is finished, and I'm very happy with the flying characteristics, I spent some time adding additional decorations.
Finished in Canadian rescue colours, I added white and red stripes, from white Monocote adhesive sheet and red ΒΌ" red tape.
Very nice :)
Since you are adding stuff, a fairing for the motor would add a lot to the looks ;)
Quote from: Michael on March 11, 2021, 08:46:46 PM
The upright supports/struts for the tip floats simply fit through a slot in the servo covers, but there is nothing to hold them in place, nor is there any indication of how deep in they should rest.
I approximated the depth from another similar model, and I built hardwood boxes to hold the supports/struts in place. After careful measuring and fitting, and ensuring that I would still have access to the servos, screws, etc., everything was glued together.
I painted the supports/struts, and the power pod. Both were brush-coated with a clear gloss-finish sealing finish.
The Valueplanes.com website description for this model now includes a hyperlink to 20 pages of instruction sheets. Clicking on the picture of the skeleton picture of the model may be needed to surface the link.
In the now available instructions there is a bit more about the length of the float struts but their solution to anchoring the float strut in servo box - apparently gluing in a single batten between the strut and botton of servo box - isn't as robust as yours.
I had to laugh...... in their instructions it says to "build the tail parts over the plan".... but the picture of same clearly shows the build is just over the perspective assembly drawings, not an actual plan.
Perhaps they should advertise their offering as a "model airplane kit puzzle".
Over at rccanada Mike Sebastian has a build thread on Value Planes 3.8:1 Tiger Moth with what appears to be even greater "opaqueness" in the build information accompanying that kit.
I remember a time when model airplane kits were not widely distributed while still in their prototype stage ....smiley
Michael in Newmarket, Ontario
Thanks. Here's a link to the instructions, if anyone wants to see.
http://hkwb588a3.pic17.websiteonline.cn/upload/SEAGULL1570MMSEAPLANE-EDIT-2.pdf
Those sure would have come in handy a few weeks ago.
Quote from: pmackenzie on March 28, 2021, 02:01:22 PM
Very nice :)
Since you are adding stuff, a fairing for the motor would add a lot to the looks ;)
Great idea!
For now, though, I'll fly it as is. Maybe later in the season or next winter I'll build a fairing and use a spinner.
Quote from: GuyOReilly on March 05, 2021, 06:44:04 PM
@pmackenzie love Old Timer planes.
Great looking bird you have there.
Transparent covering you said?
Guy
Transparent? No.
Translucent? Yes :)
Finally reliably warm enough to be able to open the shop door (for ventilation )and start covering.
Might start a new thread with more details.
Updates:
1. The model has successfully flown of water several times. It was easy and fun.
2. When landing a bit hard at TEMAC, I heard a slight crack. I thought it was nothing serious.
3. It turns out, the plywood dihedral (wing angle) brace cracked in half. On the next flight, when entering a loop, the wing folded and crashed straight into the ground, badly damaging the wings and the forward fuselage.
4. After some time, I decided to buy a new kit (about $180) and rebuild/repair.
The fuselage was damaged from the rear of the wing area, forward. The rear fuselage and tail were in good shape.
Since the front fuselage was almost a complete separate construction from the rear fuselage, I simply built a new front fuselage, and spliced it onto the surviving rear. I did some additional bracing and repairs, but overall, this worked.
I noticed recently that the product page for this model on the Value Planes website (China) is featuring images of my plane.
http://www.valueplanes.com/Old-Timer?product_id=20
I decided to rebuild the wing, except for the wing tips and servo hatches, which were in decent condition.
Since this is where the damage occurred that ultimately caused the crash (the plywood dihedral brace cracked, and the wing split exactly on the glued rib center joint), I added some additional support and strength. There are now bolts and blind nuts holding the center ribs together, and a thick carbon fiber circular rod acting as an additional dihedral/center support, glued and held in place with wood.
Another area of concern is the attachment of the tip floats onto the wing.
On rough landings, especially with some lateral (side) sliding, the tip floats kept breaking off and needed to be repaired.
Since I'm building a new wing, I added extra wood supports in the wing and on the tip-float pylons, and use magnets to hold them in place.
It's a very strong hold, but detaches easily with side force.
very nice work
The plane has been flown several times off the snow. Lots of fun!
Here are a few beautiful photos, taken by David K, of the plane flying from Lake Scugog, summer 2021.
Quote from: Michael on February 08, 2022, 04:59:06 PM
The plane has been flown several times off the snow. Lots of fun!
Here are a few beautiful photos, taken by David K, of the plane flying from Lake Scugog, summer 2021.
Ah, summer 2022 will soon be here. The photos are great...