Decision made: I will start with the B-25 and will start on the weekend.
Approach:
- build the fuse first to see how much room the fuse has for batteries and the radio
- build the wing per plan but move each rib outboard one position so one wing bay is added to each wing half (1.5"). Add two new ribs in the center. That will increase the span 3" wider from 26.5" to 29.5". I may attempt to add a wider chord to the wing-tips for stability. As well, lots of wash-out for safety.
- make each wingtip plug in outboard of the engine nacelles. Permanently attach the motors/wing centres/nacelles to the fuselage.
- leave decision on the motors until the bones are built, then do the weight calculations and decide on the motors. Prop diameter will help determine the motor as well.
- diplomatically build in all the requests (Simon's turret, Andy baling out of the bomb bay doors, etc.)
Fingers crossed
Frank
Opened the box. Need to get registered for the nuthouse!!! This is going to be a challenge.
Ordered the motors today. Want to try the E-flite 180's first because they are 3S-able. This plane is not that large.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on November 19, 2020, 10:00:01 PM
Opened the box. Need to get registered for the nuthouse!!! This is going to be a challenge.
Ordered the motors today. Want to try the E-flite 180's first because they are 3S-able. This plane is not that large.
Frank
Don't worry
@Frank v B . Getting you registered for the nuthouse will not be a challenge!! ;D
Andy
Houston.... we have a problem!!!
I started cutting and the fuse formers and then realized there are no wing ribs!!!!!!! The balsa is missing.
The package was factory sealed yet I cannot find them anywhere.
Will have to fake it.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on November 20, 2020, 09:50:04 PM
Houston.... we have a problem!!!
I started cutting and the fuse formers and then realized there are no wing ribs!!!!!!! The balsa is missing.
The package was factory sealed yet I cannot find them anywhere.
Will have to fake it.
Frank
"Warning! Warning! That does not compute! Danger
@Frank v B ! Aliens are near!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GydbuH4C8QA
Picked up the motors yesterday from John's Hobbies.
I love these 180's because they can accept 3S to give some "More-Power" options when building.
Will start with the 180's to see if it can fly. If it is not powerful enough I will upgrade to 280's but that starts higher wing-loading issues.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on November 20, 2020, 09:50:04 PM
Houston.... we have a problem!!!
I started cutting and the fuse formers and then realized there are no wing ribs!!!!!!! The balsa is missing.
The package was factory sealed yet I cannot find them anywhere.
Will have to fake it.
Frank
@Frank v B do you mean "make" or "fake" it? Airplanes do not fly well with fake wings...
Quote from: Frank v B on December 10, 2020, 11:15:57 AM
Picked up the motors yesterday from John's Hobbies.
I love these 180's because they can accept 3S to give some "More-Power" options when building.
Will start with the 180's to see if it can fly. If it is not powerful enough I will upgrade to 280's but that starts higher wing-loading issues.
Frank
O.M.G. @Frank v B is trying to kill me.
FOCUS! FOCUS! FOCUS! Macro! Macro! Macro! :PAndy
re: "O.M.G. Frank v B is trying to kill me. "
"Failure is not an option!!" ;D ;D
Frank
Guy,
re: "Frank v B do you mean "make" or "fake" it? Airplanes do not fly well with fake wings..."
I did mean fake it. When picking up the motor I told Roger at the hobby shop about the missing ribs. He confirmed that the curvy part of the wing is on the top. ;D ;D That's all I need to know to make my own wings. I will show you how. 8)
Frank
I think twin 180s will be fine, especially if counter-rotating.
Let's start something...
- put all the formers on the plan to mark all the stringer cut-outs. They are not die-crushed. (photo 110). Also the pieces that make up the keel have been pinned down, glued and allowed to cure.
- all the formers glued in place on the keel (photo 111)
Letting it cure overnight (carpenters glue)
F.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 12, 2020, 09:41:52 PM
Let's start something...
- put all the formers on the plan to mark all the stringer cut-outs. They are not die-crushed. (photo 110). Also the pieces that make up the keel have been pinned down, glued and allowed to cure.
- all the formers glued in place on the keel (photo 111)
Letting it cure overnight (carpenters glue)
F.
@Frank v B's very clever cover for the
real (morse code) message: "Andy keep out!" :D
A flat half of a fuselage is now round....ish.
F.
Notice
@Frank v B muttering to himself in Morse code in the box of pins in the top left corner of photo 3112! 8)
Andy
Fuselage stringers installed and fill-in sheeting.
The fuse is quite strong even at this early stage.
Andy, the box of code letters (pins) has been shaken.
F.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 13, 2020, 04:14:49 PM
Fuselage stringers installed and fill-in sheeting.
The fuse is quite strong even at this early stage.
Andy, the box of code letters (pins) has been shaken.
F.
Hmm...
@Frank v B, this looks like a
really juicy message from Cynthia!! 8)
Something about your van, the basement and the garage. I can't imagine what that would be about..... ;D
Andy
The wing:
BTW I found the ribs. They were hiding in plain sight. They didn't look like regular ribs because you have to cut out all the notches for the spars.
The main decisions:
1) Ditch the polyhedral. It was a minor gull wing. Am making it straight with dihedral at the fuse.... for simplicity and strength.
2) Increase the wingspan Am adding 1.5" to each half. The total span will be just less than 30".
3) Increase the chord. Starting at the root rib with the same chord but tapering less towards the tip. This adds more wing area at the tips for stability and reduces the twitchiness of small models.
4) Plug-in wing halves. The wing halves will plug into the fuse with carbon rods.
5) Ditch the scale ailerons: Will cut them out from the trailing edge stock and make them go to the motor nacelle. Note: the original TE was two glued pieces of 3/32 balsa. Replaced it with proper trailing edge stock.
The method: build one wing half in its entirety, including motor installation, then make the second wing half exactly the same way with all the same errors.... mirror image of course
Guiding Principle: as long as all mistakes are symmetrical, the plane will fly.
The purple pen is at the new wingtip. The plans show the old wing in grey.
F.
Good construction log
@Frank v B ! The thought process is inspirational!
Andy
Andy,
Re: "The thought process is inspirational!"
Do you realize this sounds like a compliment. Are you OK? ;D
Ribs glued in place. The ribs outboard of the motor were spaced farther apart. Only the trailing edges were trimmed. The reason for not touching the leading edges is so the spar slots would still line up.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on December 14, 2020, 12:59:29 PM
Andy,
Re: "The thought process is inspirational!"
Do you realize this sounds like a compliment. Are you OK? ;D
Ribs glued in place. The ribs outboard of the motor were spaced farther apart. Only the trailing edges were trimmed. The reason for not touching the leading edges is so the spar slots would still line up.
Frank
Yikes! This is serious. Must be COVID. I better get to Emerg right away! Nice knowing you
@Frank v B !!
Andy
Andy,
re: "I better get to Emerg right away! Nice knowing you"
Go to Emerg at Sunnybrook. One of my long-time customers is a psychiatrist there. In fact, he is a geriatric specialist....always looking for a challenge. ;) ;)
Frank
Stringers added to the top of the ribs.
Note the trailing edge near the wingtip is lifted off the board by a piece of 3/32 balsa to add wash-out.
Frank
explanation- "wash-out" (trailing edge is higher than the leading edge, sometimes called "twist") is added so the wingtips will stall last. Generalization: if lift is lost at a 12 degree angle of attack at the root, the tips will have a 14 degree stall. You will lose lift but the tips will still be flying. It gives you time to save the plane. If the tips have "wash-in" (trailing edge lower than leading edge), the plane will flip on its back at the moment a stall sets in. No way to save the plane.
@Frank v B, with all due respect, here is an explanation about the structural angle of incidence difference between the root. Both the root and tip will still stall at approximately 16 degrees angle of attack from the airflow. This of course depends on the airfoil selected/used.
Washout is commonly achieved by designing the wing with a slight twist, reducing the angle of incidence from root to tip, and therefore causing a lower angle of attack at the tips than at the roots. This feature is sometimes referred to as structural washout, to distinguish it from aerodynamic washout.Source, Wikipedia, the source of all knowledge ;D : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washout_(aeronautics)
Guy,... same thing.... Tomato, tomatto. I looked at it as angle of attack, the article looked at it as wing incidence. One looks forward, the other looks backwards.
Added the three bottom stringers (spars?). Photo 120
Oops, mistake. Realized I installed the tip rib backwards because the slots did not line up (photo 121, love the out-of-focus element). No problem with a little bit of sandpaper. Problem solved.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on December 14, 2020, 04:00:24 PM
Guy,... same thing.... Tomato, tomatto. I looked at it as angle of attack, the article looked at it as wing incidence. One looks forward, the other looks backwards.
Added the three bottom stringers (spars?). Photo 120
Oops, mistake. Realized I installed the tip rib backwards because the slots did not line up (photo 121, love the out-of-focus element). No problem with a little bit of sandpaper. Problem solved.
Frank
SAME THING?!? Absolutely not the same thing... The angle of incidence and the angle of attack are
DIFFERENT THINGS!!! ::) Please advise if I should bring my
From The Group Up or
Flight Training Manual or other publications on the topic of aeronautics. Bernoulli must be rolling in his grave.
I will let
@Andy Hoffer to comment on the out-of-focus picture.
Back to building*:
Finished the port wing and rough sanded it. Will round the leading edge after the motor is installed so the gluing surface is larger.
The root rib is at the root rib of the plans to show you the extra wingspan.
Motor stuff is next.
F.
* Guy, re: Bernoulli. The only turning in the grave he will be doing is when he says "Not that Frank guy again". I did a presentation to Ryerson Aeronautics about 7-8 years ago with the title "Bernoulli has left the building". They invited me/us back 6 months later to do it again. We will settle this over a beer...post Covid.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 14, 2020, 05:43:57 PM
Back to building*:
Finished the port wing and rough sanded it. Will round the leading edge after the motor is installed so the gluing surface is larger.
The root rib is at the root rib of the plans to show you the extra wingspan.
Motor stuff is next.
F.
* Guy, re: Bernoulli. The only turning in the grave he will be doing is when he says "Not that Frank guy again". I did a presentation to Ryerson Aeronautics about 7-8 years ago with the title "Bernoulli has left the building". They invited me/us back 6 months later to do it again. We will settle this over a beer...post Covid.
I will
definitely have my vicennial beer for this one. I think it would be
huge fun for
@GuyOReilly and I to do a ground school presentation to
@Frank v B !! We will bring the latest editions of
both "From the Ground Up" and the
"Flight Training Manual". I think we should be able to get this done with a two-day session at the field. 8)
Andy
Motor position.
Photo 123- the motor on top of the plan to determine the size of the stand-off.
Photo 124- the plastic nacelles held in place.
Photo 125- the front view of the motor location.
Decision:
The easiest way to handle the motor location is to
1) glue a balsa fake firewall to the leading edge of the wing
2) build a balsa box with the proper stand-off to bring the prop out of the cowl.
3) screw the motor in place so it is absolutely in the middle of the cowl
4) remove the motor and glue a 1/32 plywood firewall to the front of the box so it will hold the screws, re-install the motor.
F.
Installed one firewall. I had to roughly shape the leading edge because of the contour of the plastic.
Found a piece of trailing edge stock to handle the sweep of the leading edge. Glued it and clamped it in place.
F.
Love following your build of the B-25.
Great work!
Thanks, Guy.
Building further:
Installing the motor.
1) Check the alignment of the firewall o make sure it is at 90 degrees to the root rib. I used a triangle with one side parallel to the root rib. The 90 degree angle shows where zero thrust line is. Photo 130
2) I measured one side with a red line on the on the piece of balsa wood. Then moving it to the other side showed there was waaayy too much (inward) side thrust. Photo 131
3) sanded the angle to zero thrust. Then added two layers of balsa to the back of the motor as a spacer to bring the prop out past the cowl.
4) put a pin in the firewall (photo 133) , mixed some 5 minute epoxy and pinned the motor in place. Photo 134
5) Put the cowl in place and fine-tuned the centring of the motor. Photo 135.
Letting it cure.
F.
Elegant
@Frank v B ! We just need photos of your accompanying facial expressions. 8)
Andy
Nice work Frank.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 16, 2020, 09:36:28 PM
Thanks, Guy.
Building further:
Installing the motor.
1) Check the alignment of the firewall o make sure it is at 90 degrees to the root rib. I used a triangle with one side parallel to the root rib. The 90 degree angle shows where zero thrust line is. Photo 130
2) I measured one side with a red line on the on the piece of balsa wood. Then moving it to the other side showed there was waaayy too much (inward) side thrust. Photo 131
3) sanded the angle to zero thrust. Then added two layers of balsa to the back of the motor as a spacer to bring the prop out past the cowl.
4) put a pin in the firewall (photo 133) , mixed some 5 minute epoxy and pinned the motor in place. Photo 134
5) Put the cowl in place and fine-tuned the centring of the motor. Photo 135.
Letting it cure.
F.
Hey @Frank,
I love the perfectly focused Flyzone B-25 box, baseboard and floor tiles in photo 3134!! ;D
Andy
Finishing the port wing to see where everything should go.
Photo 136- Found two matching 6 Amp ESC's. These are two cell ESCs. They are light and they are new.
Photo 140- the top of the wing showing the aileron servo in place and the ESC connected.
Photo 141- The bottom of the wing showing the servo installation. The aileron servo arm will protrude from the bottom plastic belly thingy. The edges of the servo bearer balsa will become the fasteners for the plastic belly thingy.
Photo 142- out-of-focus photo bottom of the wing showing the servo/esc installation.
F.
As you can see,
@Frank v B can focus when he puts his mind to it, and that usually occurs when the subject matter is of sufficient import, such as:
Photo 3136- If you squint really hard and use copious amounts of imagination you can indeed see two matching 6 Amp ESC's. But I won't comment on that.
Photo 3140- Focus check acknowledged. The little red scraps on the floor, the package of Norton sandpaper, the small sheet of sandpaper, the instruction booklet, the short lengths of black and red electrical cable, the ruler, and two of Frank's knot-tying practice ropes are indeed perfectly focused.
Photo 3141- Notice that Frank's hand is perfectly sharp and in focus. As for the servo and motor... and the gratuitous use of inflammatory
red pins ..... Never mind... I don't want to bother Frank....
Photo 3142- The focus of Frank's thoughts are clearly evident in this one. Once again the relative importance of the subject in Frank's intellectual hierarchy are manifest in the distribution of focus in this insightful image.
Salvador Dali has nothing on this guy! 8)
Andy
Back to work:
- The port wing is done... more or less. The aileron is cut out and hinged, the aileron servo arm is cut through the nacelle, the landing gear mount is installed behind the firewall (3 layer), the nacelle mounts (screws) are done. Photo 3146 shows the bottom of the wing with the nacelle in place. Photo 3147 shows the bottom of the wing with the nacelle removed.
- put the wing on the fuse just to see its size. Photo 3144 and photo 3145
Notice I found a setting on the camera that makes the close-ups a lot more in-focus. Now what will Andy bother me about? Do you think he will notice? Nah! ;)
Next are the tail feathers.
F.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 18, 2020, 10:19:27 PM
Back to work:
- The port wing is done... more or less. The aileron is cut out and hinged, the aileron servo arm is cut through the nacelle, the landing gear mount is installed behind the firewall (3 layer), the nacelle mounts (screws) are done. Photo 3146 shows the bottom of the wing with the nacelle in place. Photo 3147 shows the bottom of the wing with the nacelle removed.
- put the wing on the fuse just to see its size. Photo 3144 and photo 3145
Notice I found a setting on the camera that makes the close-ups a lot more in-focus. Now what will Andy bother me about? Do you think he will notice? Nah! ;)
Next are the tail feathers.
F.
This must have been done by an impostor. The real
@Frank v B would never lower himself to such a high standard of close-up photography!
Andy
Andy,
Admit it you are stunned that I can find both the fill-in flash setting and now the macro setting.
Listening to you is getting some results...eventually.
Frank
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
@Frank v B,
"Stunned" is an understatement, but "ecstatic" better describes my immediate reaction to your superb close-ups. (Peripheral observers will recognize this as positive reinforcement for
@Frank v B's epiphany, and an expression of hope for its longevity!)
Andy
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Was just looking through my collection of covering and have decided on the following livery.
There had to be invasion stripes on it to get visibility for such a small and twitchy model.
Googling "B-25 invasion stripes" brought up the following photo.
F.
Building the stab and elevators (Photo 148) and one rudder (photo 149, needs 2).
The elevators have been joined with a wire and it has been glassed to the wood.
Note: I thought the tail feathers were overbuilt so I have used thinner wood. Plenty strong. That's why the wood does not match the drawing. Also note that I leave all pieces long because it is easier to sand it to shape afterwards than to fiddle with a knife during construction.
Figured out the main landing gear. Photos `150, 151
No photo but have installed the landing gear mount for the nose wheel.
F.
Photo #3148: Good focus on the x-acto knife and forceps at the very top edge of the photo!
Photos #3149 and #3151: Oh good. I was waiting for a good opportunity to move on to the depth-of-field (a.k.a. depth-of-focus) lecture. I have been holding back until we got a good foundation! (Quoting
@Frank v B from Reply #37: "Notice I found a setting on the camera that makes the close-ups a lot more in-focus. Now what will Andy bother me about? Do you think he will notice? Nah! ;) ")
Nice build Frank. 8)
Andy
Good work, Frank.
Well thought out.
Hey
@Frank v B ,
Just wondering how you will get the main landing gear to retract into those tiny little holes in the nacelles?! ;D
Andy
re: Andy's "how you will get the main landing gear to retract into those tiny little holes in the nacelles?! ;D"
I'll just have the landing gear fall off after take-off and do a scale wheels-up landing.
F.
ps: trying to put retractable landing gear on this project would be absolutely insane.
Yes, I thought about it... for about a nano-second. 8)
Tail feathers done and test assembled. Gluing will be done after covering each item.
F.
Figured out the nose gear.
Added balsa strips to the tail end so I can sand it straight when the stabilizer is lined up.
F.
Looking great!
Thank you for sharing the progress of the build.
Making the second wing half (starboard).
Remember how I said "make all mistakes symmetrically". I messed up. Cut the trailing edge material for the wing on the plan. I forgot the extra wingspan.
How to repair a wrong cut in balsa wood (LE, TE, spar, stringer)
Step 1- cut one side at an angle (approx 45 degrees). The angle doesn't quite matter. Any angle will always be stronger than a 90 degree butt joint because it has more gluing area.
Step 2- lay the cut angle over top of the remaining piece and trace the angle. Cut the second angle. Photo 159
Step 3- pin one side in place and place a straight edge up to it, put glue on it and join it with the straight edge pushed up to it. The joint will match exactly. The straight edge makes sure the two pieces are straight. Let cure. Photo 160, 161.
Had to mark the spars on the ribs and cut the slots. A pain. Photo 158.
Frank
ps: Andy, you should be proud of teaching me about the "Macro" setting on the camera.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 20, 2020, 12:46:07 PM
re: Andy's "how you will get the main landing gear to retract into those tiny little holes in the nacelles?! ;D"
I'll just have the landing gear fall off after take-off and do a scale wheels-up landing.
F.
ps: trying to put retractable landing gear on this project would be absolutely insane.
Yes, I thought about it... for about a nano-second. 8)
Hi
@Frank v B,
Would have been a perfect fit for the builder!! ;D
Andy
Quote from: Frank v B on December 22, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
Making the second wing half (starboard).
Remember how I said "make all mistakes symmetrically". I messed up. Cut the trailing edge material for the wing on the plan. I forgot the extra wingspan.
How to repair a wrong cut in balsa wood (LE, TE, spar, stringer)
Step 1- cut one side at an angle (approx 45 degrees). The angle doesn't quite matter. Any angle will always be stronger than a 90 degree butt joint because it has more gluing area.
Step 2- lay the cut angle over top of the remaining piece and trace the angle. Cut the second angle. Photo 159
Step 3- pin one side in place and place a straight edge up to it, put glue on it and join it with the straight edge pushed up to it. The joint will match exactly. The straight edge makes sure the two pieces are straight. Let cure. Photo 160, 161.
Had to mark the spars on the ribs and cut the slots. A pain. Photo 158.
Frank
ps: Andy, you should be proud of teaching me about the "Macro" setting on the camera.
Hi
@Frank v B ,
I am absolutely bursting with pride! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrHxhQPOO2c 8)
Andy
Andy,
Ah, the clips of the movie Cool Runnings.
Reminds me of the way you drive..... Sanka!.
Frank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEIfp1Uvoqc
Building the starboard wing.
Set the root rib, then the leading edge (LE), then the trailing edge (TE), then marked the tip rib by measuring.
These 4 pieces are glued together first. Everything else slips in between. The rubber bands at the root and tip keep pressure on the ribs while the glue sets.
Note the splice in the trailing edge. Put it on the outboard end for the least stress.
Also note that the LE, TE are left long on both ends. Will trim them afterwards.
F.
Finishing the starboard wing
Photo 3163- shows the top spars in place and drying. Also, the cockpit hatch has been glued. Will be sanded to the shape of the fuse once the glue dries.
Photo 3164- shows the bottom spars glued in place. The cockpit hatch has been sanded and the clear canopy temporarily set in its place... as is the nose cone.
Now back to my grand-santa chores.
F.
Lesson learned- next time it will be much better to draw the outline of the new wing on a piece of paper and then build it. Looking at mirror images all the time confuses both of my brain cells.8) 8) The drawing would only need the leading edge, trailing edge and rib locations drawn on it in the correct location and dimension based on the first wing half.
That's really looking good.
Put the bones together to see what it looked like.
Still have to work at the symmetry (wheels, props, dihedral, etc.) and figure out a way to attach the wings. The plans show the root rib butt-glued to the fuselage. That won't work. I will pass on the idea of removable wings and just use carbon rod(s) through the fuse to secure them.
The plane in the photo sat on its wheels but I had to put 1/2 oz of lead in the nose to make it happen. It could be that it is tail heavy or it could be the wheels need to move back about 1/2". Will deal with that when the plane is closer to the finish line.
Measured the span and it is 31" compared to the 26.5" as designed. A quick calculation shows the new wing has 25.6% more wing area than the original design. That adds up to a lower wing loading and a much more stable platform. I will have much more control all the way to the scene of the crash. 8) 8) ;)
Frank
This is looking really fine.
I love the seismic tremor in Photo 3172 !!
Estimated power to weight ratio? :D
Andy
Andy: re: your question of the power to weight ratio... Just enough! Don't know the weight yet.
re; my earlier post " I will have much more control all the way to the scene of the crash. 8) 8) ;)" Veteran watchers of the Montreal Just for Laughs Comedy Festival, will recognize this as a paraphrase from Ron White's comedy routine (below).
Frank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH-LmkLFJg0
Adding aileron hinges- I cut a CA hinge into 4 small pieces and used it to hinge the starboard aileron. The hinges will not be glued in until after the covering is finished.
trick: cut the 4 corners off the hinge to make it easier to install. It doesn't catch the edges of the slots. Photo 3176 shows the aileron hinges in place. The extra hinge has one of the 4 corners trimmed.
Next problem- how to connect the servo to the rudders.
Opted for a tiller arm inside the fin area (see photo 3180). The tiller was made of 2 layers of 1/64 ply epoxied in place.
The photo is of the bottom of the stabilizer (photo 3181) and shows the pushrod clamped into position. The pushrod was made of thin plastic tubing with very thin piano wire running inside it.
By using a tiller arm the pushrod only has to make one 90 degree bend. A normal horn would require two bends and all the slop that comes with it.
Frank
Installed the rudder (top) and elevator (bottom) servos.
F.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 26, 2020, 09:40:41 PM
Installed the rudder (top) and elevator (bottom) servos.
F.
Hi
@Frank v B So glad to hear that you're putting the rudder on top and the elevator on the bottom! This is inspirational! :D
Andy
I hate electronics!!
Decided to test the electronics and motors before trying to figure out how to attach the wings.
Bad luck. How bad was it you ask??
- one ESC I had attached did not spin the motor. One of the leads had broken off. It was 2S limit anyways
- found a twin ESC (3S) set-up and connected it. One motor did fine. The second one would not spin. Switched things around. Conclusion: one of the ESC's was toast. Clipped the wires and chucked it.
- found two matching 9 Amp Castle Creations ESCs (3S). They worked fine after soldering on new (smaller) bullet connectors.
- tried to bind a Spectrum AR 6115 and it would not bind, tried an Orange receiver and it would not bind. Finally tried a new Spectrum RX and it bound immediately. It's a keeper.
Once all the plugs are connected and everything tests out, I will try to assemble the wings. Will not glue them in place until after covering them.
Frank
Photo shows the 3 RX. The top right one worked. Both 9 amp Castle Creations ESC's worked fine.
Quote from: Frank v B on December 27, 2020, 05:12:53 PM
I hate electronics!!
Decided to test the electronics and motors before trying to figure out how to attach the wings.
Bad luck. How bad was it you ask??
- one ESC I had attached did not spin the motor. One of the leads had broken off. It was 2S limit anyways
- found a twin ESC (3S) set-up and connected it. One motor did fine. The second one would not spin. Switched things around. Conclusion: one of the ESC's was toast. Clipped the wires and chucked it.
- found two matching 9 Amp Castle Creations ESCs (3S). They worked fine after soldering on new (smaller) bullet connectors.
- tried to bind a Spectrum AR 6115 and it would not bind, tried an Orange receiver and it would not bind. Finally tried a new Spectrum RX and it bound immediately. It's a keeper.
Once all the plugs are connected and everything tests out, I will try to assemble the wings. Will not glue them in place until after covering them.
Frank
Photo shows the 3 RX. The top right one worked. Both 9 amp Castle Creations ESC's worked fine.
I LOVE electronics! I guess that's why @frank and I get along so well!!! ;D
(Wondering if the binding issues could be a DSM2 vs DSMX compatibility issue for your particular TX/RX combinations. I'm sure one our sages like
@bfeist ,
@Oscar ,
@pmackenzie ,
@electroflyer ,
@Gil.E or
@deltawing could offer more polite insights into your e-troubles than I could possibly publish in a public forum!!) 8)
Glad you sorted it out before your maiden flight ! :D
Andy
All the electronics work now. Motors are spinning. The servos are working.
Attaching the wing. Figured out a simple way to handle the wing attachment and spar re-enforcement, dihedral setting etc.
- Held one wing in place and drilled across all the ribs with a 10" drill bit. (photo 3188)
- Cut out the slots around these holes to allow the flat carbon spar to slip through all the ribs in the first wing half.
- Cut two slots in the fuse- one on each side. (Photo 3189)
- glued the spar into one wing half with 5 minute epoxy. (Photo 3192)
- do the other wing half the same way.
I will cover the wings first but leave the bottom of the second wing half open. Once the second wing is covered on the top, I will glue the wing half in place with the access through the bottom. Then cover the bottom.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on December 27, 2020, 10:45:20 PM
All the electronics work now. Motors are spinning. The servos are working.
Attaching the wing. Figured out a simple way to handle the wing attachment and spar re-enforcement, dihedral setting etc.
- Held one wing in place and drilled across all the ribs with a 10" drill bit. (photo 3188)
- Cut out the slots around these holes to allow the flat carbon spar to slip through all the ribs in the first wing half.
- Cut two slots in the fuse- one on each side. (Photo 3189)
- glued the spar into one wing half with 5 minute epoxy. (Photo 3192)
- do the other wing half the same way.
I will cover the wings first but leave the bottom of the second wing half open. Once the second wing is covered on the top, I will glue the wing half in place with the access through the bottom. Then cover the bottom.
Frank
Hey @frank,
Are you referring to the plane or yourself?! ;D
Andy
(P.S. Elegant solution.)
Finished the wing attachment.
Added a wood dowel to the back end of the wing to lock it in place. Used the same long drill bit and drilled through the fuselage and two ribs.
It does not have to be glued in now because both ribs are accessible through the plastic cowling to glue the dowel in place permanently.
The photo of the fuselage side shows the slot near the leading edge for the carbon spar and the wood dowel hole near the trailing edge.
F.
Spent two hours getting ready for the covering process:
- went over every joint to make sure they were properly glued. Found four without glue.
- removed excess glue with an X-acto knife.
- went over every part with sandpaper
- properly formed the taper in the leading edges of the two wing halves....then blunted them outboard of the nacelles to avoid stalls.
- sanded the stabilizer to lighten it.
- added a balsa floor behind the nose gear for the flight battery.
- opened up all the insides of the 3 fuselage formers near the servos and battery area.
- added some balsa webbing in the tail section for the elevator pushrod.
- removed any excess balsa around the servos, tail section.
Ready for covering after dinner.
Frank
Hey
@Frank v B Couldn't you just snack or something while you're working and just keep going? I've been waiting ALL afternoon for you to get to the "cover photos" !! The anticipation is brutal! ;D
(Any photos of the glue bits and sawdust from your final prep work?!)
Attentively yours,
First Officer Hoffer
Started the covering. Starboard wing done.
Note- the aileron is not covered until the wing is finished so I can locate the hinge points on the wing. Once found and the covering is sliced, I then transfer the hinges and cover the aileron.
F.
Nice job on the covering!
Quote from: Frank v B on December 28, 2020, 10:35:08 PM
Started the covering. Starboard wing done.
Note- the aileron is not covered until the wing is finished so I can locate the hinge points on the wing. Once found and the covering is sliced, I then transfer the hinges and cover the aileron.
F.
@Frank v B your creative use of flare is exemplary. It actually looks like one of the theatrical masks of tragedy and comedy. Your choice! 8)
Bravo!!
Andy
Just about finished covering the separate elements. Some detail work to go before final assembly.
The one wing is not covered on the top outboard of the nacelle because the two spars have to be glued together. Once assembled, the wing can be covered.
Frank
BTW: This covering job is more time consuming than a .40 size airplane!! Tedious as hell.
Looks fantastic
@Frank v B !!
Houston- we have another problem!!
Dropped the wing and landed on the spar. It allowed the ESC to pull out. The weakest link- the solder joint between the motor windings and the red wire.
Decided to see if I could solder the wire back. The joint went well but then black wire pulled out. The wire from the windings was so short that it was hard to solder. The motor spun but it got hot. I probably permanently shorted it out.
Conclusion: The missing item: the soldering skill of Greg "AMD Chip man" Hazelton. ;)
The photo shows the red wire separated from the motor.
The magnifying glass was very helpful and so was the fine-tip soldering iron. Just the ability was lacking. A white cane would have been more useful. ;D ;D
Will get a new motor. Not worth the risk.
Frank
Hey
@Frank v B Sorry to hear of your pre-completion hangar rash. What a bummer! :(
Well, at least you can say you ended 2020 with a bang!
See https://temac.ca/smf/index.php?topic=7745.msg52637#msg52637 for choice of masks.
Andy
Everybody on board!!!!
Just about to glue the wings to the fuse.
Notice from the nose to the back:
i) - the wires from all the electrical stuff in the cockpit. What is showing are the ends of 2 "Y" connectors (aileron, ESC.), 2 HST plugs plus wires from the elevator and rudder servos.
ii) Next is the flat carbon main spar that extends to the outer ribs of the nacelle.
iii) next is the balsa sub-spar that slips just into the fuselage but not across the fuse.
iv) The ESC wires- both the lipo connection and the receiver wires.
V) The aileron servo wires (red, white, black)
vi) The rear dowel to hold the rear portion of the wing. Extends through the fuselage.
Next steps- glue the wings in place with 5 minute epoxy. Will hold it and watch it until it cures. Have to make sure the dihedral is proper and the incidence is correct. If it sets wrong it will be a lot of work to fix it.
.... after dinner tonight.
Frank
Notice the missing motor on the starboard wing.
- Wings glued in place with proper dihedral.
- Tail feathers glued in place.
- wing covering finished, last aileron covered and hinged permanently.
Photos of the rough assembly. Still a lot of detailing to go (pushrods, wheels, nacelles, cowling, nose and tail cone, aileron, elevator and rudder servo hookups, etc.)
Will weigh it tomorrow when more of the stuff is in place.
Frank
Note: Holding it and looking at it with the larger wings, this plane looks like a midair collision between a B-25 (the original design), a B-29 because of the proportions and shape of the wings, and a Lancaster because of the combination of the larger wing and twin tail. I suspect the plane will look like a twin engined Lancaster in the air. The look will change again once the nose and tail cones and nacelles are in place.
Hey
@Frank v B ,
It definitely looks like a Francaster! ;D
Andy
Andy,
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8)
Frank
ps: Happy New Year everyone.... in 56 minutes.
10 minute accurate invasion stripes. Original photo of the full size plane shows the stripes.
Step 1- Accurately eyeballed ( ;)) the photo and decided that the total pattern (white, black, white, black, white) should be 4" wide.
Step 2- cut white covering 4" wide and applied it (accurately of course). Photo 3211
Step 3- measured black covering and cut the stripes (4/5") and applied them onto the white. Photo 3212
Step 4- stand back and admire. ;)
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on December 31, 2020, 05:06:35 PM
Houston- we have another problem!!
Dropped the wing and landed on the spar. It allowed the ESC to pull out. The weakest link- the solder joint between the motor windings and the red wire.
Decided to see if I could solder the wire back. The joint went well but then black wire pulled out. The wire from the windings was so short that it was hard to solder. The motor spun but it got hot. I probably permanently shorted it out.
Conclusion: The missing item: the soldering skill of Greg "AMD Chip man" Hazelton. ;)
The photo shows the red wire separated from the motor.
The magnifying glass was very helpful and so was the fine-tip soldering iron. Just the ability was lacking. A white cane would have been more useful. ;D ;D
Will get a new motor. Not worth the risk.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on December 31, 2020, 05:06:35 PM
Houston- we have another problem!!
Dropped the wing and landed on the spar. It allowed the ESC to pull out. The weakest link- the solder joint between the motor windings and the red wire.
Decided to see if I could solder the wire back. The joint went well but then black wire pulled out. The wire from the windings was so short that it was hard to solder. The motor spun but it got hot. I probably permanently shorted it out.
Conclusion: The missing item: the soldering skill of Greg "AMD Chip man" Hazelton. ;)
The photo shows the red wire separated from the motor.
The magnifying glass was very helpful and so was the fine-tip soldering iron. Just the ability was lacking. A white cane would have been more useful. ;D ;D
Will get a new motor. Not worth the risk.
Frank
Hi
@Frank v B ,
Mind if I have a go at your dead E-flite 180? Just for entertainment, and to have a memento of you to hang in my shop as reminder of shop practices to be avoided, I thought it would be fun to try teasing out one turn of the affected winding to get a strand long enough to allow proper resoldering of the motor lead. I could even balance the windings by unwinding equivalent lengths from the other two phases and resoldering their respective leads. Of course I would checking for a short(s) elsewhere in your physics experiment. 8)
Cheers!
Andy
Andy,
Here's the deal on the motor... If you can fix it in 10 minutes- no. If it takes you a month- absolutely.
Four weeks of peace for a $40 motor- absolutely priceless. 8)
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on January 01, 2021, 09:34:42 PM
Andy,
Here's the deal on the motor... If you can fix it in 10 minutes- no. If t takes you a month- absolutely.
Four weeks of peace for a $40 motor- absolutely priceless. 8)
Frank
Thanks
@Frank v B . I'm sure I can stretch a 5-minute job to go along with a few nice Brahms concertos, say the Piano Concerto No. 1 in D minor, Op. 15 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOlc2PAiWUU), the Piano Concerto No 2 in B flat major, Op 83 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40NsFKuskH0), and the Violin Concerto in D major, Op. 77 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C_U7eUbVd8), for starters. Just imagine what you could do if you listened to these while you're doing a build!! 8)
Andy
Now for the final assembly
- painted the cowls, nacelles and installed them permanently. Yes, I did install the new motor first.
- assembled the landing gear. Even spray painted the wheel rims to match.
- installed the servo arms and centred the arms.
Next on the list: canopies (nose and tail), connect the flying surfaces to the servos.
Assembled it to see what it looks like. Cute. It is a lot smaller than it seems in the pictures.
Frank
Total weight so far (no battery) is 10.4 oz.
Better than I thought it would be at this stage.*
F.
Someone built the same size Guillow's P-38 and it came out at 32 oz. and it flew fine!!!
He used an 1800 mah 3S battery. Mine will use one 300-400 Mah 3S battery.
Looks amazing!!
These props should be black or metal grey, then it would be OUTSTANDING! ;)
Love to follow that build.
I am on vacation all week therefore free to attend the Maiden Flight! ;D
Awesome build Frank. Nice job!
Looks great!
Andy,
Those are not skis, they are barn doors!
Love the photo of the Basler BT3 turbo DC 3 in the second photo.
Frank
ps: I have decided to build the Guillow's DC-3 as well when this is finished. I love the low cost tinkering involved with these planes. They suck up hours, not money or storage space. :D ;D
Will the DC3 be in Buffalo Air bright green colours?
Thanks Guy, Simon and Michael.
Sprayed the canopy. It came clear so I masked off the windows and sprayed it grey.
Photo 1- masked and sprayed.
Photo 2- masking removed in the windows. Clean-up still required.
F.
Andy is holding the damaged motor with support equipment (battery, ESC).
Do you think he will be able to fix it???
Stay tuned for the updates.
Frank
Installing the rudder and elevator linkages. I use the British method of small plane horns.
The steps are easy and automatically absolutely centre the servo/pushrod linkage:
step 1- cut a horn from plywood and add a hole for the pushrod with a #11 blade.
step 2- connect the pushrod to the servo in the centred position.
step 3- tape the moving surface in the neutral position (masking tape on the aileron in photo 3230)
step 4- cut and bend the pushrod to the correct length
step 5- cut a slot in the moving surface
step 6- fill the slot with 5 minute epoxy, attach the horn to the pushrod, insert the plywood horn in the epoxy-filled slot. It will now be absolutely centred when the glue dries. Note: let the 5 minute epoxy ooze out of the slot so it strengthens the joint. This is very visible at the base of the elevator horn in photo 3228.
The reason I like the plywood horn- the slot will always be across the grain of the moving surface. When the glue dries it makes the wood much stronger.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on January 05, 2021, 06:46:31 PM
Andy is holding the damaged motor with support equipment (battery, ESC).
Do you think he will be able to fix it???
Stay tuned for the updates.
Frank
Bingo! One of the silver linings of COVID-19 is that it has given
@Frank v B way more time than he would otherwise have had to build testosterone-based micro planes and drop the occasional wing directly onto its spar, ripping the guts out of the unsuspecting motor which had been quietly minding its own business. This presented me with an opportunity to rebuild one of his casualties, and the time to do it.
So, in keeping with the spirit of technologically significant TEMAC build threads and artistic macrophotographic expression, I am pleased to present the
E-Fright Park 180. Careful examination of the dismembered windings on Frank's motor indicated that they would probably not have been up to the task Frank would be inflicting on them anyway, so I elected to dispense with them altogether. X-acto knife and hemostat in hand, I performed a microsurgical windingectomy and opted for direct connection of the leads to the stator laminations, yielding maximum current flow and superior electromagnetic flux. The new configuration approaches 0 kV, with virtually zero internal resistance, allowing the rebuilt motor to swing a full-scale 12ft-7in 3-blade prop which should fill the bill nicely.
(I haven't done this since my slot car days when we used to rewind the motors with excess windings (secured with epoxy to handle the potentially explosive over-spec rpm), the electromechanical equivalent of overclocking the CPU on a computer, or performance tuning a hot rod engine.) What a great afternoon in the shop! Thanks so much Frank!! 😊
My motor has been Hoffered!
Poor little thing. ;)
To heck with E-Fright. It will be No-Flite!
F.
Progress!
- installed the canopy over the hatch cover. Still have to figure out a way to secure it. Probably magnets.
- painted the bare wood areas with silver paint (ply horns, exposed balsa, some joints)
- installed the nose cone. To hold it in place I drilled through the barrel locations, dipped a toothpick in 5 minute epoxy and glued them to the firewall. The gun barrels hold the nose cone in place. Snipped off them points and painted the gun barrels black. The sinister nose of the B-25's business end.
All servos are now hooked up. Testing later.
Looks cool.
Frank
ps: yes Guy, I will paint the props black!!!
Finished!! 8)
Connected everything today and did the final details. All the wigglers work.
Guy, notice the props are painted black with yellow tips. Just for you. ;D
Frank
Note: I will be maidening the plane on 72 meg equipment. Since these small planes are so twitchy, with 72 meg equipment you can do instant full trim corrections. None of this 2.4 gig beep, beep, beep one click at a time trim levers. It has saved many a small plane. I will use a Berg receiver, essentially an electronic wart on a wire and weighs next to nothing.
Thank you
@Frank v B , black props with yellow tips are much nicer.
Quote from: Frank v B on January 07, 2021, 10:13:03 PM
Finished!! 8)
Connected everything today and did the final details. All the wigglers work.
Guy, notice the props are painted black with yellow tips. Just for you. ;D
Frank
Note: I will be maidening the plane on 72 meg equipment. Since these small planes are so twitchy, with 72 meg equipment you can do instant full trim corrections. None of this 2.4 gig beep, beep, beep one click at a time trim levers. It has saved many a small plane. I will use a Berg receiver, essentially an electronic wart on a wire and weighs next to nothing.
Congrats
@Frank v B !
Can't wait to see how the E-fright 180 performs versus E-flite 180! ;D
Andy
Thanks Guy and Andy.
Forgot the water slide decals of the USAF insignia. New photo below.
Beautiful!
Great work Frank!
Thanks guys. It was a fun build. Tonight I will start the post on building the Guillow's DC-3 with a huge 34.5" wingspan. Motors will be E-Flite 280's. I ordered the ESC's today. I already have the motors.
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on January 08, 2021, 04:52:19 PM
Thanks guys. It was a fun build. Tonight I will start the post on building the Guillow's DC-3 with a huge 34.5" wingspan. Motors will be E-Flite 280's. I ordered the ESC's today. I already have the motors.
Frank
Hi
@Frank v B Don't forget to install a sponge crash pad on the floor of your shop to handle any spar-with-innocent-mounted-motor impacts! ;D
Andy
re: my earlier comment "I will use a Berg receiver, essentially an electronic wart on a wire and weighs next to nothing."
For those of you who missed RC's middle ages, below is a photo of a 4 channel Berg receiver next to a quarter.
F.
Maiden day: June 13, 2021
Tried 3 times to get it off the ground on our brand new runway. All 3 times it broke ground and flew nicely but would not gain altitude. I cut the throttle and ditched it slowly near the apron each time. Suspect the plane was nose-heavy since full "up" elevator would not allow it to gain altitude.
Will make two adjustments-
i) move the CG back about 3/8"
ii) add more power via props that are about 1/2" greater in diameter.
Frank
Made the following adjustments:
- changed the props from 4.0"x2.5" to 4.5"x3"
- changed the servo output arm from a 2 hole to a 3 hole arm.
- swapped the location of the receiver and battery. The RX is now in the nose, the battery as far back as possible.
Ready for attempt 2.
Frank
Hey
@Frank v B Why not just up the ante to 6S? ;D
Andy
TEMAC, June 20, 2021.
Photo #36 -
@Frank v B fully charged.
Photo #38 - Where does this go?!?
Photo #45 - Two heads are better than one...
Photo #46 - Here we go.
Photo #47 - To please
@Andy Hoffer , you can almost see the plane in the bottom right corner - also, I need to clean the lenses...
Video 1st Attempt - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpnnP1oOE30
Video 2nd attempt - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ANQHDKjdVs
Thank you for a fun afternoon.
Hey
@GuyOReilly I love the warm and fuzzy UFO's in photo #47. People make too much of a fuss about sharply focused images! ;D
And is that big dog whistle in
@Frank v B 's mouth in photo #36?!!
Andy
The re-maiden went fine today.
- moved the CG rearward by moving the RX in front of the battery and upgrading the battery to 3S 250 mah from 180
- the prop diameter was increased by 1/2"
- re-set the servo arm to increase the elevator throw and give it more "down".
Did two circuits of the field and then landed with a nose-over. Airplane in one piece.
Frank
Beautiful little plane!
Here is the larger scale model! ;D
Beautiful flying by
@Frank v B !!
Andy