I have bought a new(to me) radio and Plan to go to FASST this season. I have had great results with 72 and Spectrum but as my planes have become more powerful I want to take the best action available in the mind of safety. The FASST system is what is recomended to be used in high power/high carbon airframes. I do plan on using some of the FrSky compatable Rx's in some of my more generic airplanes. I will need more than 10 recievers and cost out weighs the good reviews that the FrSky is getting. The radio I will be using is the T10CAG.
We can trade info on the HK receivers....I need to buy a smaller one for the P51, the one I got is a bit big, but as far as performance...they look good.
Steve
Oh no, you won't be able to teach me how to program my 9C anymore.
Actually Ben the programing is very similar. You can even move stuff with the campac module between the two radios!!
Hit a snag last night..
Previously I tested the data transfer from 9C to 10C. All looked great oh what a pain that will save I thought. So i moved everything over last night and cleared/packaged my 9C up for shipping. When i went back to examine the models in the radio all the expo, dual rates, end point setings are there. But NONE of the mixes and or programs have made the trip! Sure for normal planes this will be fine but the planes that I had programed coupling mixes, flap trim settings, landing and launch modes are all gone!!
Beep Beep beeeeeeep Beep Beeeeeep.
Oh that wasnt swearing that was the sound of programing more than 10 models worth of crap into the radio
First two flights on the books! Flew my old Formosa same throws/expo settings from previous
Initial impression
Very smooth I swear there is a noticeable gain in both speed and precision. I have a ton of time on this airplane and I'm quite pleased and impressed with the difference.
Receiver was FrSky TFR6 Fasst comparable.
Good news... I will be using a few of those ;D
Steve
I just installed my first 7ms latency high speed Fasst multi-channel mode receiver (yes I know lots of fancy words).
This mode is only to be used with digital servos as analog ones can not keep up with the data rate.
WOW! Do the surfaces ever JUMP when you touch the sticks! The visual resolution of its movement is shocking. This is with digital servos running 6volts.
Receiver is : Corona R6FA
Ed... have you seen this one...:
http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk9410-14sg/index.html (http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk9410-14sg/index.html)
I think I have found my new radio. Will have to wait until next year...But this has it all at a reasonable price...May even find a good second hand one by end of summer...Just need to convert my DM-8 so that I can use it with this radio.
Steve
Quote from: sts41 on April 19, 2013, 10:48:34 AM
Ed... have you seen this one...:
http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk9410-14sg/index.html (http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk9410-14sg/index.html)
I think I have found my new radio. Will have to wait until next year...But this has it all at a reasonable price...May even find a good second hand one by end of summer...Just need to convert my DM-8 so that I can use it with this radio.
Steve
Yes Steve that radio and the one I purchased were the two I had on my list. There features are similar and priced in the same range i believe. The advantages of the 14 are in the flexibility and SD card but the radio felt funny in my hand. Sort of felt like I was driving a Saturn!
...the radio felt funny in my hand. Sort of felt like I was driving a Saturn!
As opposed to ...?
A roadster Tesla, Ferrari etc or as opposed to Turnigy??
The 10c has a bigger screen. Is campac module not SD card memory. And is a more conventional shape.
Quote from: Ededge2002 on April 19, 2013, 02:44:18 PM
The 10c has a bigger screen. Is campac module not SD card memory. And is a more conventional shape.
I like the module option - mainly for the possibility to use FrySky with all their telemetry etc. but I thought you once mentioned that the non module Transmitters are more reliable.
The module in it is for model memory not transmission. Campac is Futaba's little cartridge style memory card.
I had ordered an Ultra Campac....Works great. That gives me a max of 32 models. I will check out both models this summer...The 14 has the Fasstest feature with a nice cheap SD card, but the sensors for the telemetry are pretty expensive. The 10 can support modules.
I will do a bunch more reading...
Steve
I just managed to program my first model in my 9XR. I could get used to this programming stuff!!!!
I did flaperons and throttle kill, plus the regular DR and expo!
Once you get onto the programing its a sinch.
A cool feature of the radio I noticed when I was looking it over was the dual trainer plugs! Futaba AND Spekrtum! What a great feature. There are many ways programing the radio can make a tough plane to fly much more tame.
I am sure most users of other systems are thinking - big deal. :)
But once you have the hang of er9X it can do things that are generally impossible with any other radio.
For example, how about reducing aileron throw on a delta wing in proportion to throttle position?
So at high speed you have lower rates than when gliding. (Or conversly increased throws while gliding)
Or putting aileron differential or something like rudder to elevator mixing on a knob so you can tweak it in flight?
I think the SD10 G can do the latter, but not sure there are any other radios that can. Certainly no "name brand" at anywhere near the price of the 9XR.
The Taranis from FrSky is coming out soon. For $200 it will be just about impossible to match in features, no matter what you pay.
On screen telemetry that can trigger audio messages. Flip a switch and the radio can tell you what flight mode you just selected. 16 channels.
PC application for programming, transferring models and firmware updates. SD card. headphone jack.
Hopefully the hardware (sticks and switches) is as good as the firmware. The one I held at Toledo seemed pretty good, and the production gimbals are supposed to be better again.
About the only thing it does not have is a colour touch screen or a roller for data entry.
Pat MacKenzie
Quote from: pmackenzie on April 20, 2013, 04:03:16 PM
But once you have the hang of er9X it can do things that are generally impossible with any other radio.
For example, how about reducing aileron throw on a delta wing in proportion to throttle position?
Pat MacKenzie
This got me thinking, Pat. I have a Tornado F3 EDF with swing wings. I could program the 9XR to have smaller aileron and elevator throws with the wings forward, and increase them as the wing sweeps. I could even put the sweep of the wing on one of the potentiometer/variable switches, and then adjust the throws accordingly.
Can you give me a hint on how I may do that? Just to get me started?
Thanks!
Tell me what surface is on what channel, and what switch/pot or combination of the two you want to use to swing the wings and I will see what i can figure out.
Is the swing wing on a servo or something like a mechanical retract mechanism? If a servo, would you want it to move slowly or as quick as possible?
Pat MacKenzie
little tiny antennas.
attached there are a couple photos of my instalation of the FASST reciever antenas. PLEASE critique, knit pick and scrutinize the photos as im looking for any flaw to how ive done them. after all YOU have to stand on the field beside me!
Orange plane:
Enigma F5B 72" span 4lbs and well over 100mph
Carbon wing and carbon tow in the fuse.
Futaba R617FS receiver
taped to sides of the fuse in a downwards direction. 90degrees opposing.
Yellow plane:
StratAir Pyro 33" span 14oz and 150mph
Carbon wing and carbon tow in the fuse.
Futaba R6106HFC receiver
1/64ply mounting fin with tape.
Please any reply would be appreciated. Even a couple of Robert Pike "looks good" 's would let me know
You would get more informed responses by posting over in the High Performance section on RCG.
On my DLGs I just let the whiskers hang in the breeze, I don't tape them down to the fuse.
Pat MacKenzie
posted on rcg. I have a thread going there too about this.
as for taping them down the wiskers can suffer metal fatigue and fail from the high wind speeds these types of planes encounter. The US F5B team used this method and had no troubles/failures
Thanks i do appreciate the input.
Quote from: pmackenzie on April 20, 2013, 07:17:12 PM
Tell me what surface is on what channel, and what switch/pot or combination of the two you want to use to swing the wings and I will see what i can figure out.
Is the swing wing on a servo or something like a mechanical retract mechanism? If a servo, would you want it to move slowly or as quick as possible?
Pat MacKenzie
Hi Pat,
Currently I am using my DX7s for this plane. The swing wing is on a servo controlled by the 3 position flap switch. So I have full forward, middle swept and fully swept back. I added a slow-down to smooth the movement.
Ideally I would have different throws and different expo for both aileron and elevator, based on the wing position. Ailerons are 2 servos on a Y lead. Same for elevators.
I'd be happy to continue using the 3 position flap switch on the 9XR.
Thanks for your help!
Y leads???? say no to Y leads!
flaperons and elevons AND swing wings! It would be impossible to fly normaly but the radio could do it!!!!
would make it so you could disable it though as that is a lot going on to get set up lol
Using the three position switch makes it easy.
Assign it to the flap servo channel (I will pick ch5 but it could be anything)
ch5 +100% 3POS
You can adjust each of the three positions in the LIMITS page.
If your 9XR has the original HK firmware it may not have 3POS, so the mix would look like:
ch5 -100% FULL IDO
R 0% FULL ID1
R +100% FULL ID2
Rates for each position can be assigned to the same switch.
See the first image below (from the companion9X transmitter simulator) to see what the switch assignments look like.
!IDO means "Not" ID0, in other words it is On when ID0 is OFF. AKA logical negation :)
Then it is simply a matter of setting the rates for each position of the switch as desired.
If you want the wings to sweep slowly then that is just a matter of putting values in the SLOW DOWN and SLOW UP feilds in the mixer editing window
(Second image below)
Rate changes will happen immediately, only the swing wing speed will be slowed down.
(Sorry Ed, we are dragging your thread waaayy off topic - perhaps we should start a new one?)
I agree - no reason to use Y leads with er9X.
Initially you could simply use the channel output as the input to the second surface, basically electronic Y lead them
This would give you reversing, subtrim and limits for all surfaces with no real "programming" required,
So for second aileron on ch6 and first on ch2 it would simply be"
CH6 +100% ch2
Second elevator would be similar. Assuming no rudder you could use ch5"
ch5 +100% ch3
You could reverse the second channel by either inverting it in the limits menu, or changing the mix weight to -100%.
Later on you could start to get tricky and add things like differential, flaperons, elevator to flaperon mix, taileron mixing, whatever you can dream up.
Sorry Ed! Didn't mean to hijack your thread. I did debate starting a new one but thought that anyone following (to learn/for interest) may lose the info!!!
Thanks so much Pat. Makes logical sense. I'll have a play with it.
Using Y leads at present on 4 channel RX. Could swap to a 6 but on the Tornado I don't want flaperons. So I was OK with the Ys.
After range testing. checking and checking again i flew these two models today. +50 paces in range testing all solid.
No troubles to report. I acualy think BOTH models despite being basicly maiden flights again flew better than they ever had. The little Pyro pylon is realy getting its groove on and with a little tweaking will be perfect. The Enigma holiner was great too! I moved some travels around when I re set everything up and it was terrific! Even managed to catch some lift and stayed up without power for 12:30minutes that is when I wasnt burning up the sky with it!
great day! Think the sun had anything to do with it?
Was a great day. I loved the Pyro again and I'm sorry I missed the Enigma.
Are you sure they're FASSTer Ed???
I know the responce time is measured in mili seconds and I was using good equipment previously but I did feel that the planes felt smoother and if the word "lighter" could be used I think its what I would say. Could this be the faster speed of the signal and higher resolution?
What system are you coming from?
You can compare latency of various systems here:
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/ (http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/)
FASST is not spectacularly fast ;), 18msec frame rate I think.
But depending on what you were using before that could be a big improvement. Some of the Furaba PCM stuff was pretty slow.
Airtronics SD10G like Colin and my brother Ivan flies is just about the fastest system out there.
I am hoping that FrSky ups their game with the new Taranis and its new PXX digital protocol, but I fear it will still be slow.
Pat MacKenzie
I was using Futaba 9C with pcm on the Enigma glider(for the failsafe),
Straight Fm on other planes
Others again with the Spektrum DM-8 module.
do you know where i could print that chart from? its tough to look at all the numbers at once hahaha
This post tells a shocking tale!
Quote"
This just in...
Finally got around to testing a Futaba 9C with an R149DP PCM receiver. It's not good...
Minimum Latency to First Change: ~ 44ms
Minimum Latency to Last Change: ~ 110 ms
I found it more difficult to test this setup due to the odd nature of how the channels change so I only went for the minimums. In theory you would add one frame time to get the maximums.
Bottom line... The 9C is sloooowwww. The Futaba PCM1024 scheme is partly to blame of course."
My understanding is that the Fasst numbers are 14ms in low speed mode and 7ms in high speed(requires digital servos mode)
So you are going from what was arguably one of the slowest systems out there (9C running PCM mode) to a much faster one.
No wonder you noticed the difference. :)
Frame rate is one part of the equation, computational speed is another. It might take 4 or 5 msec to do the calculations.
So you can miss the next frame if your stick input was too soon before the end of the current frame.
This means that average latency would be something like the frame rate plus the calculation time.
It requires some careful work to reduce the system latency. Airtonics did a good job. It seems like Futaba has a poor history.
I think that the published results on runryder sort of pushed everyone to up their game. Before that there really was not any independent testing.
I have a setup to measure this and will see how good the Frysky transmitter is when I get one. As I said their module systems, which I use in my gliders, is pretty slow.
Pat MacKenzie
If you ever wanted to measure the fasst let me know!
in reading the chart it looks that I went from 80 something ms down to sub 20ms. that seems to me like a fair jump by the numbers!
With the digital servos and on high speed mode I swear the servos are already moving when i move the sticks! I havent flown the one plane I have set up like that though.