Had a laugh reading Michael's post about his wife asking him to go build an airplane with lots of sticks. There is no way my buddy Michael is going down this road alone. http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,7322.0.html
Found this kit in my shop. It is an Easy Built Stinson Voyager. 50" span originally built for a Cobalt 05 electric. I believe I bought this from Ken Rawlins at last year's club swap meet.
Googled the plane and noticed it had flaps that only came out below the wing. The top of the wing stayed solid. Will incorporate this. If it looks good at the bare bones stage I may cover it A La Piker (transparent covering).
Will decide on the power as it comes together. Will probably go for the lightweight option. (smaller battery, smaller motor, smaller servos, lighter covering, etc.)
Frank
Don't know what it is about yellow planes... but that's a great picture... and particularly next to the car.
Glenn put those kind of flaps on his Vampire EDF... pretty cool.
Finished cutting out the parts. Turns out one of the cowl formers is missing so I will have to fake it.
The punishment has started. AUGHH!!!
Frank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in5H8Zg4jME
Building the cowl:
BTW: don't ask me why I started with the cowl. ;D
Problem: one half of the large former was missing and the entire middle cowl former was AWOL.
Solution:
- copy the large former and glue together mirror image. Photo 02- pinned to the board.
- made the middle former out off 4 individual pieces of balsa that will be glued in the corners and then sanded. Photo 03
Frank
Cowl finished!
Photo 04- New (missing) former made out of 4 pieces, clamped while glue dried.
Photo 06- Cowl finished
Stabilizer:
The stabilizer looked weak. Maybe enough for a rubber model but nowhere near strong enough for RC application...in my hands. ;)
Upgrades:
- trailing edge of the stab was changed from balsa to spruce and twice as wide.
- ribs were changed from 1/8" square to 3/16 x 1/8.
- the center section was supposed to be sticks, I made it from 1/8" solid balsa.
Note: I always cut sticks oversize at the ends (leading edge, trailing edge) and trim them afterwards.
Frank-proofing the model. ;D
Frank
Elevators.
The plan showed two separate ones joined with a wire. Not strong enough when the wood is only 1/8" thick.
Approach
- Cut both halves as one piece but left about a 1/4" wide bit of balsa joining the halves.
- Cut a slot behind the balsa bit and inserted a hardwood dowel about 3" long. See first photo.
- Cut two pieces of 1/64" plywood about 4" long by 3/8" wide.
- pinned the elevators to the board and snugged a metal ruler up to the leading edge to guarantee the joint dried absolutely straight.
Frank
Sanded the elevators and thought they were a little flexible along the grain. I know the guy who will be flying this plane. Belt and suspenders! 8)
I cut back the cut-out for the fuse and rudder by 1/8" (approx.) and glued a balsa stick across the grain.
Note:
- The sticks were left long and the balsa brace is higher than the elevator thickness. A few quick passes with a sanding block and it will be perfectly flush everywhere.
- The assembly was pinned along a metal ruler again to make sure it remained straight while the glue was drying.
Frank
Starting the fuse:
Problem:
The plan calls for 1/8" square balsa to make up the fuselage crutch. 1/8" square cross members then become the formers to make up the width of the fuse. Then the rounded formers are added on top and on the bottom to round out the fuselage box.
Decision:
No way for 1/8" balsa. Either 3/16" or 1/4". Sorted through my collection of sticks and have enough for either. Now I have to match the sides.....because.... if the density of the wood is not the same, the fuse side with the softer balsa will bend more than other side. No banana fuselages for me.
The photo shows the difference in the wood sizes.
Final decision: Will go with 3/16" wood*.
Frank
* quick math:
- 3/16" wood has 2.24 times the cross-sectional area of 1/8" wood
- 1/4" wood has 4 times the cross sectional area of 1/8" wood.
Photo16- The black area on the plans are the two fuse sides that have to be built out of.... 3/16" sticks.
Photo 17- the matched density sticks for sides 1 & 2 so the fuselage will bend straight towards the tail.
Frank
One fuselage side completed. The glue is going to dry over dinner. The second fuse side will be built on top of this one so..... all mistakes are symmetrical.
After the second side is done, I will be adding sticks from the bottom of the fuse to the top of the cabin top to act as doublers for the window area. Lots of stress there because of the wing... and the pilot. ;)
There is other stupid stuff on the drawings like no upper re-inforcement on top of the stabilizer slot. Will add that before commencing side 2.
Frank
Photo 20- the second side built on top of the first one with waxed paper in between.
Photo 21- made vertical doublers to support the cabin structure and the wing. The round toothpicks point to the doublers... before I trim them.
Frank
The fuselage sides are put together with formers.
Problem- there are many formers missing. Have to fake them. Luckily there is one for the top at the trailing edge of the wing (F 5) and the front bottom 3 around the landing gear.
Put blank formers on top and will cut the slots in once the glue has dried so they all line up.
Will add them to the fuselage bottom once the frame has dried.
Frank
Fuse is almost finished:
Biggest problem- there was no firewall!!! Picked a 160 watt 3S bell motor because it was the lightest and can swing a 10" prop. It is 15 amp continuous and picked an 18 amp ESC. Built it into the cowl and made the cowl removable in its entirety. Held on with 2 registration pins and 4 sets of rare earth magnets.
Photos:
25- fuse without the cowl. Two Hitec HS 81 servos for elevator and rudder.
26- fuse view from the nose showing the magnets and registration pins.
27- bottom view. All the stringers in place.
28- the cowl with the motor and ESC in place.
29- side view of the cowl.
Next: the wing.
Frank
Just weighed the plane:
Fuse (not covered) incl. servos, receiver, motor, esc and 800 mah 3 cell lipo is 10.7 oz.
The finished plane will probably come in at less than 2 pounds.
80 watts per pound is more than good enough for take-off.
Frank
Lookin' great, Frank.
Ya gotta love a fuselage with stringers.
Robert
Thank you Mr. Piker. I know you love building with sticks.
Built the starboard wing. Will let it dry overnight. (No I did not use 5 minute epoxy. Carpenter's Glue.)
Note the wing center section over the fuselage is flat with the dihedral joint at each fuse side.
The flat sheets between the ribs near the tips are the two wing strut anchor points and the aileron servo mount.
Frank
I love reading this Frank.
One of my 2020 objectives is to build a plane with balsa. Maybe I just finish my little EE. Lightning! ;)
@sihinch, I've been thinking exactly the same. I love these step by step posted projects like
@bweaver and
@Frank v B ... they are inspiring. I'm not sure I'll start with just "sticks". Maybe a pre-cut kit is ok for a first go.
David,
If you want to build with sticks, get a laser cut kit and save about half the aggravation. Laser cut is much better than the old "die-crushed" or "You cut'm yourself you lazy-ass" balsa kits ;D
I believe the new Guillow's and Dumas kits are laser cut.
Frank
...back to building.... the wing center section.
When a wing has dihedral I always build the second half onto the first half so there is no problem with the angle of the ribs, leading and trailing edge alignment at the dihedral joint. Most kits supply a gauge to set the rib angle but..... not this one.
The wing's center section is flat for the width of the fuselage and the dihedral joint at the side of the fuselage, not the middle.
The photo shows the wing with the plywood dihedral joint, rib doubler and center section all pinned in place with.... 5 minute epoxy. What else did you think?
When this is dry, I will build the port (left) wing onto the center section with the starboard wing raised the proper amount.
There were two major errors in the plan.
i) the dihedral angle is shown as 2.25" under each wing tip. It is actually the total dihedral or 1 1/8" under each wing tip. Confirmed by the plywood center brace angle.
ii) the plan shows a single rib at each dihedral joint with a double rib in the very center where there is no dihedral joint. Duh!
This is clearly a DWI* plan. :D
Frank
* two definitions i) "Drawn While under the Influence" or "Deal With It" 8)
Frank
Left wing mostly done. Still needs to have the leading edge installed.
Photo 38- shows the wing tip details. Note that I leave the pieces long and high. Will sand them afterwards.
photo 39- shows the left wing panel pinned down. The center section and wing tip are raised for the proper dihedral angle.
Frank
So the plans say the leading edge needs to be sheeted with 1/16 balsa. It seemed odd to have it sit in air. It is usually attached to an upper spar. What upper spar? Install shear webs but attached to what?
- there was no cut in the printed ribs for a top spar
- none was shown on the side view of the fuse/wing.
All it said was "see detail B" (See photo 41). It showed a 1/8" square top spar!!! The knife* is pointing to it. WTF!!! ???
How to retrofit a top spar.
- used a 24" metal ruler to make cut marks across the ribs
- used a piece of 3/16" square (upgrade from 1/8") to make each individual slot for depth and width. See photo 42.
- glued in the 3/16" square spar. See photo 43.
Built the fin and rudder as well. Changed the design to strengthen the grain at the top and the bottom of the rudder. The plans want you to cut it out of a single piece of 1/8" balsa. So wrong! See photo 44.
Frank
* in case you are wondering about the green tape on the knife- to stop it from rolling onto the floor without affecting the grip.
I'm liking this one... there's almost more questions than answers.
David, start asking questions!
Sheeting the centre section with 1/16 balsa. Notice the wing is pinned to the board. You gotta start straight to finish straight.
Frank
I meant that you're asking the questions and being presented with a number of challenges.
David,
OK. The object is to have at least 1 answer for every question. ;)
Decided to sheet the entire center section, not just the leading edge. Sheeting the starboard leading edge.
I put a 3/16" scrap piece of balsa under the trailing edge of the wingtip for wash-out. This wing is so tender the wash-out can be added at the covering stage.
Frank
The top of the wing (LE) sheeting and center section sheeting is finished.
All the shear webs have been installed (vertical 1/16 grain balsa between the upper and lower spar).
Off to dinner (drying time).
Cap strips are next.
Frank
Cap strips done. 1/4" x 1/16" glued on top of the ribs.
How to add ailerons to a 3 channel wing.
1) Pin the wing to the building board, draw the aileron on the trailing edge and the ribs affected.
2) Make the first cut 3/32 uphill from the aileron edge so we can add the wing's new trailing edge ahead of the aileron. Photo 52
3) Glue in 3/32" hard balsa vertically into the slot. This creates the aileron bay in the wing. This goes rib to rib, wider than the finished aileron size. Photo 53, 54.
4) remove the small rib portions of the ailerons and number them (1,2,3) Photo 55, 56
5) make the aileron wing bay edges from scrap balsa and glue them in place. Photo 56 (left and right edges glued in place.)
6) insert balsa that becomes the leading edge of the aileron on an angle. Photo 57
7) angle-sand the small section of rib and glue them in place. Photo 58
Note 2 things:
i) the balsa sticks up above the wing. This will be sanded flat once the glue dries.
ii) the trailing edge of the wing (and aileron) has not been cut yet. This will be done after sanding so the edge will be precise during the building and sanding of the ailerons.
I forgot the most important thing: Make one aileron to completion before starting the second one. Copy what you did on the first one so it will be symmetrical. rule: If you make all mistakes symmetrically the plane will fly fine. Do not work at both ailerons at the same time.
Frank
@Frank v B are you not finished yet? :P
Bruce,
My answer.
Get back to work after the Pilots' Meeting.
I did the second aileron with all the same dimensions as the first aileron with all the same mistakes.
Gotta get this plane done so I can get to my Warwing and drive Bruce absolutely silly. ;)
Frank
Re:
"Gotta get this plane done so I can get to my Warwing and drive Bruce absolutely silly."
@Frank v B Eventually after constructing your Warwing, the future flights and challenges you are likely to experience will have you needing to refer to...
http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,6579.msg43142.html#msg43142 ::)
Bruce,
My job is to make the time between first flight and first major repair as long as possible while inflicting as much damage to other Warwings......especially yours! ;) 8)
Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on January 11, 2020, 03:04:20 PM
Bruce,
My job is to make the time between first flight and first major repair as long as possible while inflicting as much damage to other Warwings......especially yours! ;) 8)
Frank
Wishful thinking Frank, wishful thinking. :P
Bruce,
You know we are all dreamers. It's my turn. ;) :D
Frank
Keep going!
Photos:
2859- servo glued in, balsa cover glued in, "Y" connector connected and safety dental floss added to connector. The "X" pencil marks are attachment points for the wing struts.
2861- last test with a servo tester to make sure the servos can fully deflect without binding and centering before disconnecting.
2862- center sheeting finished on the bottom of the wing with the "Y" connector sticking out.
Frank
Great morse code!!!
Andy
Andy is alive!!
I have two words for Andy in Morse Code that he will understand....
Frank
Andy and I can team up and start a new business. Our insults are much higher quality.
Saw this sign in Thornhill today.
Frank
Agonized over the wing attachment method. It had to solve the following problems:
1) the leading edge of the wing overhangs the cockpit. No option for leading edge dowels... my preferred method.
2) the cabin structure is weak so I wanted a wide area of attachment to spread the load
3) tried to use rubber bands but the problem is the dowel has to be ahead of the leading edge. The leading edge was ahead of the dowels shown on the plan.
When I put my mind to it the solution came in about 5 minutes. Decided the trailing edge would use one nylon bolt.
Glued a "J" shaped piece of balsa the width of the cabin to the bottom side of the wing. The load is spread the full width of the cockpit.
The photos show the close-ups.
Photo 66- shows the wing in position over the cockpit. Can't use leading edge dowels or rubber bands.
Photo 67- shows the wing flipped upside down over the front of the cockpit. It shows the balsa hold-down piece on the LE.
Photo 68- shows the balsa hold-down locked into place (to the left of the servo wires)
Photo 69- shows the side view of the balsa "J" hold-down on the botto of the LE.
Dried, fried and done.
Frank
Nice... resourceful.
Next problem: Accidentally ended the top of the fuselage one bay too short. I did not want to extend the permanent top because it would be tough to access the two servos.
Decided to make a hatch that covers the open bay and the top of the wing at the wing bolt. It will be held down with magnets.
How?
- made a new former same as the old one, placed wax paper in between the new and old one and pinned it in place. (see top of photo 2872)
- made a 3/32 balsa plate to fit the back of the wing and created an access hole for the wing hold-down screw. Put wax paper on top of the wing and pinned the plate in place at the trailing edge of the wing. (see bottom of photo 2872)
- added 1/8 sq. stringers and epoxied them in place. (see photo 2873). The split in the center stringer covers the hold-down screw. This will be cut back later.\
Frank
An easy way to line up magnets on a hatch.
It is frustrating when you make a hatch, glue in magnets and not have them mate properly once the glue dries. If you are not an engineer or a perfectionist here is an easy way that meets the "just good enough" standard (50:50 rule).
Note: the magnet is off the centerline of the wing/hatch because I did not want to weaken the wing joint.
step 1- drill a hole the diameter of the magnet in the hatch and glue the magnet in place with a friction fit. Let it dry. In photo 74 the balsa stick points to the first magnet on the hatch.
step 2- put a piece of wax paper on the magnet and attach a second magnet to the one on the hatch. It automatically orients the magnet so it sticks. Photo 76
step 3- put the hatch in place and push on the magnet so it dents (marks) the balsa when you push on it.
step 4- drill a hole in the second surface (in this case the wing) but make it larger and deeper than the magnet. (magnet visible in photo 76, top.)
step 5- fill the hole with 5 minute epoxy and pin the hatch with the second magnet and the wax paper in place. Let it dry. Photo 75
Here is why:
- the wax paper stops the glue that is squeezed out from gluing the hatch in place
- floating the second magnet allows 100% contact with the first magnet, same angle, absolutely proper depth and orientation (north to south*).
- it guarantees 100% success and it is accurate as hell without you having to be.
- you have 5 minutes to check for hatch alignment and adjust.
Frank
*yes, I have glued magnets in place and reject the hatch!!
Fitting the tail feathers.
The plans do not show anything about how to attach the fin/rudder. According to the plans they float on air and since I do not have any air glue had to fashion a surface onto which to glue the fin.
Used 5 pieces of soft balsa 3/16" thick to make a base for the fin.
The photos show the pieces glued in place. They will be shaped once the glue is dry.
Frank
tail piece cone* sanded.
Frank
* Katized English. ;)
Tackling the fin/rudder.
There was no attachment point. I had kept the leading edge long just in case.
At last Wednesday's build class Piker encouraged me to leave it long for extra support. See Piker, we all listen to you.
Cut a piece of 3/16 balsa 3/8" wide and made it to fit between two formers. Cut a slot in it. Then cut a cross piece to support the bottom of the fin's leading edge.
Decided to leave a bit of the stringer at each end so there would be twice the gluing surface.
Let dry. Time to hit the hay.
Frank
David,
The original post has been Katized.
Nickel=Milionaire ;D
Frank
The sticks torture continues.
Covering the wing. Used yellow Monokote to cover the wings. Here is how to do hinging using covering. This is especially good for light structures and sheeted surfaces.
Photo 85- the covered wing
Photo 86- Fold the aileron flat against the top of the wing. Use a 2" wide strip of covering the width of aileron and attach it to the aileron and the wing at the same time. Make sure there is no gap. Heat shrink it.
Photo 87- Do the same to the top of the aileron. Fold the aileron down to the max (full "down" aileron) and attach the 2" wide strip to the top of the aileron. In this photo it has been attached to the aileron but not yet to the wing. That's why it is sticking up. Now attach the strip to the wing while you hold full "down" aileron. Trim the excess, if there is any. Make sure you apply heat to the aileron gap so the covering of the top fuses to the covering on the bottom.
Photo 89- Finished aileron hinge. Gapless with free movement. The photo shows full "down" aileron.
Frank
Didn't want you to think I was slacking off.
Starting to cover the fuse.
Oh, yes. At the last Build class it was decided by the group that this should have landing gear. I was prepared to build it as a hand-launch. Had to modify the design because.... if built per plan, the landing gear would have collapsed every take-off and landing. Poor design.
Photo 96 shows the landing gear on the plan and the bend I added to it (red dotted line). This extra bend sits in a slot cut into the middle of the landing gear block.
Photo 97 shows where the extra bend comes through the fuselage.
Frank
The completed wardrobe. Finished covering the major parts.
- glued in the tail section (fin, rudder, elevator, stab)
- attached the wheels and test-fitted the nose. (? sounds weird)
Needs two things:
- a tail wheel or skid but there is no attachment point. Sh..!
- the nose looks awkward (photo 99). It is a standard nose for two of Easy-built models.... but probably not this one. Will somehow fix it. Reminds me of a Pilatus Porter.
Am glad the group insisted on wheels. Looks good. Will not add the wide LG legs or the wheel pants. They tend to get awkward after the first* rough landing.
The hatch behind the wing is a welcome feature.
Next- solve the windshield issue. Want to make it opening to access the battery connection.
Frank
* First of many.
@Frank v B This aircraft will certainly qualify as Cub type aircraft at our upcoming Canada Cub Day event, (Canada Beaver Day for some like
@davidk ), for a number of reasons; including it is yellow, because it has a high wing and because it looks more like a Cub than A Stinson Voyager. As you said
"the nose looks awkward". You said it, not me. ::)
Prepping the Cub-Day special.
The tail wheel/skid.
First had to insert a hard-point on the bottom of the fuse. Slipped in a piece of 1/8 hard balsa.
Made a tail skid out of piano wire and glued it to a piece of balsa to cover the new hard-point on the bottom of the fuse.
The reason for the tail skid is that once a burst of power is given, the back of the plane will be off the ground because it is so light. A lot simpler and lighter than a wheel.
Windshield.
I wanted to make this removable.
Made a frame and a new dashboard (two layers 1/32 balsa) out of balsa. Taped a piece of plastic (cover backing) on the nose so the glue would not stick. Built the frame in place. Note that the balsa dashboard is long. I will trim it to shape after the glue has dried.
Letting it dry overnight.
Frank
Its looking awesome!
Great idea for a battery hatch!
Final details:
Photo 32- aileron servo connections done.
Photo 33- Battery hatch off.
Photo 34- battery hatch on.
Just have to go around and do all the heat touch-ups, cover shrinking and trimming.
Done!!! Will make a final photo tomorrow with final weights and power calculations.
These 100 sticks just about killed me... but......I'm ready for another project. 8)
Frank
Wait for the final picture ::)
OK Bruce, start judging.*
Final photos of death by 100 sticks.
Photo 41- done!
Photo 42- shows the rudder and elevator linkages and the access hatch behind the wing.
Photo 43- nose shot with cowl in place (contains motor and ESC).
Photo 44- nose shot with battery hatch (windshield) off. Held on by magnets.
Photo 45- da plane!
Photo 46- nose off (crash mode!)
Will put an orange racing stripe down the fuse on a rainy day in the future but she is ready to maiden now.
Frank
* or save the insults for my next project.... the Warwing. You may know it.
For a Cub 10. ;)
For a Stinson Voyager 7.9... ::)
For a gorgeous plane... 10. Can't wait to see her fly. Is she going to be a... ur... um... fishing line plane... or a regular plane?? ;D
Bruce,
re "For a Stinson Voyager 7.9... ::)"
A brother from a different mother! I wanted need the extra points for Cub yellow on your Cub Day event.
Frank
ps: not bad for a kit that rated 2 out of 10.... because it had some wood in it. Lots of parts were missing, drawings were wrong, what was drawn couldn't possibly work, etc.
David,
re: "fishing line plane... or a regular plane?? ;D"
If you mean floats or wheels... don't push your luck. I had to be talked into adding wheels. The gear, as designed, could not work and would have collapsed on the first landing. ;D
Frank
No... I meant the radio.
Quote from: davidk on February 29, 2020, 10:28:33 AM
For a gorgeous plane... 10. Can't wait too see her fly. Is she going to be a... ur... um... fishing line plane... or a regular plane?? ;D
I gave him a 10 for a Cub.
@davidk How non-committal can you get calling it a generic 'gorgeous plane'. I thought I was being generous for a Stinson.
(Maybe all it was missing was that orange stripe that Frank was referring to.)
Time will tell. Judging doesn't require an commitment made in stone. :-\
David,
re: "Fishing"- I missed that one completely. Maybe a 72 meg fishing rod would be appropriate. Will check my stock and report back*.
Bruce,
re: "generous" All contestants know that on Cub Day we start off at Zero with you... before all the bribing starts. ;D Then there are guys like me who remain at a Zero with you. 8)
Frank
* I have at least 20 72 meg transmitters and 50 receivers. My shop is the last refuge of 72 meg technology.... right beside the 8 track tapes. ;)
I couldn't really comment on the "Stinson" part since I wasn't around when it first rolled out ;)
Flew the Stinson two weeks ago and it flew fine. The 150 watt motor was more than powerful enough to lift it off at about 3/4 throttle.
Notice the green tape- to get the CG forward for the first flight I put the battery (3S- 850 mah) right behind the motor inside the removable cowl. The tape is to make sure the nose did not take off without the rest of the airplane. ;D
It flew fine, landed fine and the three circuits of the field were uneventful. Brown underwear neither needed nor made. ;D
Frank
ps: I could not post the photo until the computer co-operated.
Congrats
@Frank v B ! Your Stinson looks great, and I really like your very artistic low lighting angle which illuminates the starboard side from within, showing both the fuselage structure and shadows cast by the windscreen framing. You are getting seriously good at this. i think you are ready for a DSLR! 8)
Andy