Well as some of you know I picked up the Great Planes Fokker DR-1 (Electrifly version) from Pinnicle last week.
I bugged Ron for a very long time! Well he gave in and now it is sitting in my hanger.. At least it was till today. So I looked outside and noticed that the trees were not swaying back for forth as they have been for the last week. I had some time and eagerly packed up my stuff and headed to the field. Weather seemed ok with some South west light winds. Well my intention was to play around a bit doing some taxing and getting a feel for the DR-1. As most of you are aware. These things are a mother to control (at least rumour and every web stie has it). Andy was also at the field playing with his Pitts (very nice plane!) We talked for a bit and I though now would be a good time to try this thing out. Well my intention as stated before was to just lightly taxi around, well would you not guess it! Mr Fokker (or should I say something else) desides to take off towards the wind and get airborn!
Well not being that experienced with this plane and now being it's maiden for me! I found myself fighting flight characteristics that I never considered possible. I banked left and banked right, tried to keep her straight and level. Things started OK, but all of a sudden the wind picked up and the little bugger ended up on the North side of the field. I thought, ok this is good, I can head towards that south wind and come in.... Well let's say at MAX throttle, I could only hover towards that south wind... OK, that's not good. [V] I needed to get that plane down.. but how? [?] Oh if they only didn't just harvest those beans, things would have been much better. At this point the only thing that I could do was get the DR-1 as close to the field as possble and try to put it down. So much for coming in for a smooth landing and impressing Andy. The winds were picking up and it was getting throw all over the place.. it was now or never... So I got to about 6 meters from the field and it came down... thump.... I knew that this was bad.... I could feel it... It almost made me a bit sick in the stomach. I walked over and I could see that top wing had come lose from the supports. I picked up all the bits from the fresh mud and headed back. Loaded up the plane and said my failwells to Andy.
At home I assessed the damage and realised it was not that bad.. I fixed the supports and fixed some holes in the covering that occured to the fact that it was cold and some beans were sticking out of the mud.
So I was frustrated at the fact I crashed, maybe being young and cocky I promised that I would not lose a plane. So as everything dried. I recalled the plane seemed tail heavy, I added 1 oz of weight to the noise and rechecked the CG. I looked outside and guess what.. no wind again...
So this time I headed to the park... Ok, it's across the street and this thing is rather small.. I tried again! Well guess what... 20 min flight and it was fantastic! [:0] A bit of up trim and 50% throttle.. Fokker is really fun! You really need to use that rudder...
So Andy, it's fixed. I am happy that I finally mastered this thing at least for now.. But Greg H was right and to not rush out to try something right away.. These electrifly's are fun, but need ideal flight conditions for a maiden. I have learned my leason!!!![xx(]
Kudos to you for getting right back up on the horse and trying again! [:D]
Colin
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Three things are certain ... Death, Taxes and CRASHIN'! :)
Crap, I crashed again! It's fixed, but someone explain what might have happened?
So I had about a 5 min flight. Everything was good. But at the North corner of the field, the plan did a bit a wiggle in the air that was unexpected and scared me a bit. I then said forget it, bring it back. Then coming in against the wind on the North East corner, it just spun around in the air and none of my controls could do anything. I was about 1/2 throttle coming out of a turn. As I walked up the plane, I noticed that my DX5e was showing on green bar above red. Could I have lost signal? Glen mentioned that I might have stalled it in the air and caused the spiral? She hit very hard and I broke the 2 lower wings, the nose shattered and the top wing had a hole in it. Anyways, all fixed and I added another 1/4 of wieght to the nose. It really made me feel down as I loved that plane! [:(]
Hmmm ... I'm assuming that this was at TEMAC? If so that's exactly where my Yak went in (sorta north east corner) and where another member's plane went in the other day as well.
I first attributed my crash to a failed elevator but now i'm wondering if it could be radio problems since everything sorta just stopped responding. The other guy's symptoms were similar as well.
Colin
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Three things are certain ... Death, Taxes and CRASHIN'! :)
Most crashes at the north-eastern area of our flying space are due to pilot error.
Such crashes occur, flying counter clockwise, when setting up for landing at lower altitude and lower airspeed. These crashes, usually started by wobbling, are stalls.
Low speed, turning (drag) and low altitude are a recipe for a stall and crash.
Solutions:
1. Keep speed up a bit, and slow down when the plane begins to straighten out for landing.
2. Fly at a higher altitude, and keep the nose down, level over the field, and flare before landing.
All this from experience. [:D] [;)]
Michael
I have heard from other members also that there is an issue at that corner of the field. I was also hovering at the northeast corner of the Temac field. Greg H also mentioned that there was something strange at that corner. I swear that I was moving OK, but it could have been that I was too hot leveling out and stalled. I may have lost lift at that point. I wonder if it is a case of miss jusging speed and angle based on where you are standing?
Swamp gas?
If I think back, I was probably too slow causing the tip stall and then spin. I have also checked and rechecked all the throws to make sure they are within spec. Hopefully if the weather breaks a bit, I can try it out again. Thankfully Pinnicle has another one waiting on the shelf for me! [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by Michael
Most crashes at the north-eastern area of our flying space are due to pilot error.
I think I've been flying long enough to know a low airspeed/tip stall crash ... ESPECIALLY since mine was due to a complete loss of control. So like I said ... I thought MINE might have been a radio issue. [;)] Now I'm pretty sure ... see http://www.airtronics.net/SD10GSB-11-17-2010
Colin
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Three things are certain ... Death, Taxes and CRASHIN'! :)
quote:
Originally posted by wollins
quote:
Originally posted by Michael
Most crashes at the north-eastern area of our flying space are due to pilot error.
I think I've been flying long enough to know a low airspeed/tip stall crash ... ESPECIALLY since mine was due to a complete loss of control. So like I said ... I thought MINE might have been a radio issue. [;)] Now I'm pretty sure ... see http://www.airtronics.net/SD10GSB-11-17-2010
Colin
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Three things are certain ... Death, Taxes and CRASHIN'! :)
My brother Ivan just boxed his up to send in.
He lost a nice DLG back in June to lockout with his SD10G. Only a couple of hundred feet away and it just spiralled in.
What receiver were you using? The problem is only supposed to occur with the FSS1 versions, not the 10 channel FSS3. Also only supposed to be an issue in crowded RF environments, which doesn't exactly describe TEMAC.
Pat MacKenzie
quote:
Originally posted by pmackenzie
quote:
Originally posted by wollins
quote:
Originally posted by Michael
Most crashes at the north-eastern area of our flying space are due to pilot error.
I think I've been flying long enough to know a low airspeed/tip stall crash ... ESPECIALLY since mine was due to a complete loss of control. So like I said ... I thought MINE might have been a radio issue. [;)] Now I'm pretty sure ... see http://www.airtronics.net/SD10GSB-11-17-2010
Colin
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Three things are certain ... Death, Taxes and CRASHIN'! :)
My brother Ivan just boxed his up to send in.
He lost a nice DLG back in June to lockout with his SD10G. Only a couple of hundred feet away and it just spiralled in.
What receiver were you using? The problem is only supposed to occur with the FSS1 versions, not the 10 channel FSS3. Also only supposed to be an issue in crowded RF environments, which doesn't exactly describe TEMAC.
Pat MacKenzie
Yeah ... my radio is one of those serial numbers and I was using a FSS1 5 channel rec. Nope TEMAC wasn't crowded ... however I'm just calling it as I saw it and it was a complete loss of control. Given the fact that this service bulletin describes such a possbility it just makes sense to me that MORE LIKELY THAN NOT ... that's what it was.
Colin
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Three things are certain ... Death, Taxes and CRASHIN'! :)
Nah. I still think you stalled. I saw it with my own imagination.
quote:
Originally posted by piker
Nah. I still think you stalled. I saw it with my own imagination.
[:D][:D]
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Three things are certain ... Death, Taxes and CRASHIN'! :)
i am tired of hearing that the Temac field in the northeast corner is jinx or some hocuspocus radio killing interfernce goin on! i crashed in every corner of the field, i guess the whole field is bad :)
john
I'll say it again.
Look at the problem rationally, and consider the common facts from most such crashes in the north-east corner:
1. Most are flying low.
2. Most are flying slowly to prepare for landing.
3. Most are using ailerons, elevator and rudder to set up for landing.
Flying low, flying slowly and deflected flight surfaces (drag) contribute to a stall, and crash.
Unless you have one of those darn radios that don't transmit in a north-easterly direction. [:D]
Michael
Don't forget the power of the road! Get close to it and you are subconsciously making a turn away and if you don't have enough speed you have a recipe for disaster. Panic, low speed and a turn what can be worse? Oh! I forgot low or no battery.
I think two things cause crashes. The first and most often cause is pilot error and the second is mechanical or structural failure. However too often the former is blamed as the later. I know in my case all my crashes were pilot error or deliberate because I ran out of options and or skill and panicked.
In this day and age any well proven radio system is virtually bullet proof. The number of radio failures is minuscule compared to the hours of use we get. How many go flying today without a range check and get away with it. I have no experience with older systems but there must have been a reason why range checking was a safety mantra. They must have been less reliable or particularly susceptible to interference.
Jack.
Pretty sure the time goes faster for the satellites due to their speed relative to the earths reference fame.
Classic twin paradox: You fly away at high speed and when you get back your twin is much older than you are.
Or put another way, you can only go forward in time. We are all going forward in time. But if you travel at high speeds you will go forward faster than those you left behind.
Pat MacKenzie
What we need is a "Time And Relative Dimension In Space" machine and then we can fly forward and backward in time.
Jack.
The Faster you travel, the slower time passes for you relative to an observer travelling slower (or on earth)
Of course if you happen to be inside a flying saucer, all bets are off since most likely you are travelling inter-dimesionally where time may have no meaning. [:o)]
Personally I think the Illuminati are responsible for the crashes in that area of the field.
I think we are on to something.
It is a relativistic effect of turning from downwind to upwind.
The electronics take a moment to reset their time frame to the new reality and this gets out of phase with the air molecules that have to do the same thing.
So you snap/spin in as a result. It's all Albert Einstien's fault![:D]
Pat MacKenzie
Good now that we know what's causing it I'm getting Dr. Who, the Time Lord, to drop in and fix it!
Jack.
Can't blame Al or the "NE triangle" for this one.
South end of the field. just past the end of the runway.
Pure dumb thumbs.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16664623&postcount=200
Pat MacKenzie
Well another issue to the field is that the surface is a bit ruff for smaller scale planes. The DR-1 is having issues at the mid and most east of the field. I have to plan a good path prior to taking off. The bumps cause the tri-plane to get out of control just before take off. There is a video on you boob that has a great planes dr1 just taking off and the surface is bouncing the poor plane around. It ends up flipping the plane and busting the upper wing. This happens all the time on these planes if the take off is not perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkJS-_8O_kI
Here are comments from the post: rdawson55 — March 06, 2009 — PILOT CRASHES NEW GREAT PLANES FOKKER SOPWITH DR. 1 TRIPLANE ON FIRST FLIGHT. WORLD WAR 1 AIRCRAFT. KIT NO LONGER MADE. HIGHLY COLLECTIBLE! IF YOU FIND ONE BUY IT!!! JUST DONT FLY IT
Although very funny in some respect, after being in this hobby for 6 months I feel his pain!
I don't think that qualifies as a small scale model and I think it was pilot error more than a bumpy take off. looks to me like he did not have enough speed for flight controls to be effective.
jack.
Suggestions:
1. Taxi with full up elevator.
2. As speed increases, reduce up elevator.
3. Do not takeoff until full flying speed is reached.
Michael
I did some Internet research over the last few days and I've figured out how you can avoid crashing the Fokker next time you take it out to the field.
Remove the prop.
That should ensure that you won't reach both an unsafe velocity and/or altitude, thus keeping your plane safe from harm.
Trust me, I'm an instructor.
I vote for Michael's advice... just not saying which one [:p]
Yes the field is indeed quite bumpy and full of irregularities. This effects not only smaller scale planes but larger ones with smaller or stiff landing gear as well. I remember just a few weeks ago another member at the field doing taxi tests with a very nice bi-plane model. It was getting bounced around and beatup pretty good. He came back and tried to get up in the air and fly, he ended up taking off at a odd angle causing him to narrowly miss the protective fence.
quote:
Originally posted by Papa
I don't think that qualifies as a small scale model and I think it was pilot error more than a bumpy take off. looks to me like he did not have enough speed for flight controls to be effective.
jack.
I think you're right, the error is he should'nt of tried to take off at that location.
Is there any plans to have a roller come in and flatten the field? If not, I may bring some beers and pretty girls we can all roll around on the grass for a few hrs. [:p]