Okay, so I'm proud of my soon to be 90 dad...he's still building model airplanes! In an earlier post about his DH89 Dragon Rapide (finished last month), I made reference to our Monday pub lunches which he buys while I feed him model airplane kits, parts...and help out with electrical stuff. At the rate he's building I'd be way behind if costs were tallied! Photos are of his latest, a Macchi M5 Fighter, Flying Boat (seaplane) and Schneider Cup racer...and another beautiful biplane. Last picture is the jig he built to get the wings aligned.
Anybody got plans for an Avro Anson Mk I or II? He wants to do one of those next! Failing that he'll settle for a Waco YMF, Waco ARE or Aeronca C3...beauties and the bathtub!
Hi Bill:
So wonderful that your dad is sharp and active at 90 and that you share a strong common love for RC aircraft.
I hope we will get to meet him at TEMAC this summer? Maybe a family portrait?!
Cheers!
Andy Hoffer
Great work! The old hands still got it!!
Nice... :D
Very nice, Bill... and Bill's Dad!
As you know, Bill, I have the same kit, but I'm not that far along. I have the top wing mostly done and the fuselage boxed up, as your dad does, but that's it. I'm inspired seeing these pictures. It'll be sweet little flying boat. I hope we can see it at the lakeside this summer!
Robert
Hi Rob,
I'd appreciate your thoughts on motor choice. We've picked an e-flite Park 280 because it's light, has a kv rating that's high enough to get some thrust out of the small prop this model demands AND I can't find an inexpensive substitute from HK in the same weight/kv range. It's rated for around 100 w on 3S and we're thinking a 6x4E or 6x5E prop which is close to the max diameter this model will allow. We expect the finished model to come in at 12-15 oz. with 850-1000 mah 3S on board.
I still agonize over motor/prop choices so any input from you experienced types would be appreciated.
Well, I'm certainly no expert at choosing motors these days. I still go by the simple watts/pound approach and find that has never failed me. The Kv value only comes into play when considering extremes like F5B and Nooners (and EDF) where optimum performance is the goal ;D
The Park 280 seems like a good choice to me. It'll let you swing the prop you want to swing, will easily give 100 w/lb, which will be WAY over kill for this plane, and it's nice and light. How can this be wrong?
The vast number of motor options available these days seems to make it harder to select a motor, but as long as you know what power you want (ie. watts/lb), the limit on prop size, if any, and a general idea of the type of motor (Kv - slow with thrust vs. pylon racer fast) then any one of the motors that satisfy that will be fine. In otherwords, unless you're looking for/ require for competition an optimum set-up, don't worry about it too much. These days we have the luxury of being a bit off :)
What do the rest of you say on this subject?
Robert
Here you go Bill:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19034__Turnigy_Park300_Brushless_Outrunner_1600kv.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19034__Turnigy_Park300_Brushless_Outrunner_1600kv.html)
Rob,
Thanks for making me feel more confident about the factors to consider when making a motor choice. I think I've been doing pretty much what you outlined. Helps to have experienced RCers' advice.
Jeff,
That's certainly a short list candidate. Thanks for taking the time to find it and point it out.
Settled on Jeff's recommendation for motor and ordered from HK. In the meantime, building has continued. Here's a few more pictures as the build progresses taken after this week's visit to the pub.
Such an interesting building project. The framed up flying boats have so much character.
BTW, is the tail made from Depron, or is it covered with white covering already?
Quote from: piker on March 12, 2013, 10:51:51 AM
Such an interesting building project. The framed up flying boats have so much character.
BTW, is the tail made from Depron, or is it covered with white covering already?
Rob,
Both...horiz stab is traditional stick and Coverlite but rudder is depron as dad decided to increase its size and created a unique air rudder driven water rudder... Sorry I missed that detail in the photos. He wants to fly it from water but the RCGroups thread for this model isn't complimentary on the small (Dare) version in the water. Time will tell.
We had another pub lunch today, so the photos show the progress on Dad's Dare Macchi M5 over the last two weeks. The deck(fuse top) has been added and the balsa stained with Minwax. The pilot figure (re-worked Star Wars action figure from the dollar store) has taken his seat and the dummy engine (Isotta Fraschini I think) painted and temporarily fitted. The motor and ESC (en route from HK) will both fit here so in addition to the aileron servo wire, there are going to be two more wires from the fuse to the motor platform...we're still trying to figure out how to hide them. The bottom wing and bottom of the top wing have been covered with Coverlite, chosen to try to keep the weight down.
We're hoping it'll be ready for TEMAC's Schneider Trophy 100th Anniversary event.
Wow! Looks so nice! And that pilot is perfect. Great work adapting an unconventional pilot. It looks better than most RC specific pilots.
Hi Bill...I am crunching the numbers for the Motor/Prop/Battery. And if you can get the eflight park 280... Go with the 6X3 prop and you should have a perfect setup:
Here are some of the important numbers...
Power: 70 watt
Thrust: 13.4 onces
Current: 6.71 A
RPM: 13500
Mixed flight time about 13 minutes at 850 mA 3S battery...
Anything bigger than 3.5 on the 6X3 calculates to a Thrust Stall. If you can find the 6X3.5, you will get a bit better performance, but with the weight to thrust ratio of the 6X3... should be way more than enough.
I use the Castle Creation calculator and I find it to be easy to use and understand... It didn't have the Eflight Park 280, but I just added the numbers from Horizon site. I find it very accurate, but nothing beats testing.
http://www.ecalc.ch/motorcalc.htm?castle&lang=en (http://www.ecalc.ch/motorcalc.htm?castle&lang=en)
Hope that helps
Steve
I missed the part where you ordered the Turnigy motor...ran the numbers on it... and it too will be fine with the 6X3 prop, has about the same thrust as the 280.
Steve
Thanks Steve. I don't have much of a background in electronics but with all the help available at TEMAC the learning has been fun and so far, no fires or crashes attributed to electrical problems...pilot error? That's another story!
I've bought a 6x4 pusher prop for the model...too coarse?
It should be OK, as long as you set your ESC to a slow start.
I like to be able to power back on fast... This prop may be a bit much for that.
We are not talking much here...3.5 is OK and 4 is over...So I would say you are probably ok with 4.
But test it with a Watt meter and check the heat.
Steve
Thanks again Steve. I consider myself lucky to belong to a club which supports its membersthe way TEMAC does...especially throught the website...thanks again Ben!
I'll look for a finer pitched pusher prop.
Pub lunch became McDonad's breakfast this week...more progress on the Macchi and the motor and ESC have arrived. The wings and the motor platform are removable and the dummy motor has hand built pushrods and rockers which were exposed on the Isotta Franshini!
The M-5 is looking so nice. Love the engine details.
Robert
Does anyone know where to get Red, White and Green roundel decals/stickers? Checked with Pinnacle and they don't know where to get them.
Another pub lunch today...amazing how many problems get solved with beer!
No leads on where to buy Italian Red White and Green roundel decals, so Dad made one, took it to the local copy shop and had them reproduce it in various peel and stick sizes. You can see one of the small ones on the front of the fuse...the bigger ones will go on the wings.
I wired up the motor and ESC and we tested all the electrics before starting to close the wing and route the wires along the supports for the motor and the upper wing. We haven't done a watts/amps test yet and we're expecting less than 10a on 3S...ESC is a 10 amper....Steve, is this enough? The photo without the upper wing makes it look a bit like an M-33.
Missed posting the last two weeks...too busy drinking beer. The Macchi is almost finished...anyone know where we can find red/white/green roudels that are waterproof and not too heavy?
Wings/motor are held on with magnets and removable as a unit. We've installed the 6x4 pusher as I haven't found a 6x3 pusher.
Maiden some really calm evening at Rogo or a park with long grass! Once the maiden's out of the way we may bring it to a float fly. I've given the Crane back to Dad so he can finish the fuse...maybe Warbirds Day.
Took Dad's Macchi M5 to the local park yesterday to see if it would taxi on the grass. Lawn tests had shown it stuck to the grass like it was glued. Enter silicon spray. Spray, one-third throttle and...YIKES! the Macchi has taken off! :o Rather than attempt to land we decided to keep on flying. Had to trim full down elevator and almost full L aileron, for hands off straight and level but the model flew happily at one-third throttle and handled the breeze without problems :) First landing was a learning experience as in glide mode, the tail feathers are definitely on low rates...pull elevator to flare and nothing happens. Keep the throttle on and the prop wash over the tail feathers keeps them on high rates and flaring works. Finally managed to get two close to perfect landings this morning.
Taking off on the second and third flights was another learning experience...plane was sluggish and turned right in the grass...only after the third flight did we discover the top of the lower wing was covered with dew drops from the wet grass...more on the right wing than the left.
We're getting closer to having the model trimmed to hands off flying and it's a pleasure to fly...and a tiny classic in appearance!
That looks magnificent Bill. Awesome craftsmanship and wonderful pictures.
Thanks so much for sharing.
this was the plane Bill had with him last night!!
Woops, I see it did fly! Congrats! guys!
Maybe we'll see it at the next float fly!????
Quote from: battlestu on September 19, 2013, 11:42:43 AM
this was the plane Bill had with him last night!!
Greg,
It was the model we brought and tried to take off at TEMAC last night. By far the worst flight...only one where we've failed to use up a battery in flight. Back to the bench, repaired last night and big improvement this morning with no wind.
Quote from: piker on September 19, 2013, 02:45:46 PM
Woops, I see it did fly! Congrats! guys!
Maybe we'll see it at the next float fly!????
Only if weather is perfect and the pilot logs the necessary hours to virtually ensure a perfect landing. Approach technique is different from any tractor propped model I've flown and I'm not yet consistent enough.
She's a beaut Bill! Curious as to what silicone spray you used?
Colin
Quote from: wollins on September 21, 2013, 09:21:21 AM
She's a beaut Bill! Curious as to what silicone spray you used?
Colin
Hi Colin,
Thanks for the compliment...I'll pass it on.
Used WD40 silicon spray...it was the first one I found at Home Depot.
Over a beery pub lunch sometime in the fall of 2011, Dad expressed an interest in building a model of the Albatros DVa...definitely a candidate for anyone's short list of "Best Looking Biplanes". This was before e-flite released its nifty model of the same aircraft. I spent hours Googling for a model and eventually found a NIB foam Czech or Polish (I can't read either) foamy on RCCanada. Ordered all the appropriate bits from HK and Dad finally came up with another great looking model...very light, and...VERY fragile foam...definitely not EPO or Z foam or anything else durable.
Maidened in that spectacular stretch of September weather that now seems so far away...the week after we maidened the Macchi.
Laborious pre-flight checks...triple check balance (no CG instructions...anywhere for this one!)
Even though the model is very light and easily small enough to hand launch, we decide to take-off from ROGO grass and this maiden did not go well...model went almost straight up :o and before I had much of a chance to get any control, the pilot figure had crashed it... :'(
Lo and behold...only minimal damage and after re-balancing with some lead weight on the nose, we tried again...success! :)
Some fairly aggressive trimming and tuning, a switch to hand launching and the flights got easier to the point that hands off passes the full length of ROGO are now possible in very light wind. Ailerons are being added to help the controllabilty in wind...
His DH89 Dragon Rapide and our jointly scratch built Cessna Crane are both waiting for the right weather for their maidens and we've started a joint build of an Avro Anson for this winter. So many neat airplanes to model and so little time!
wow another great looking model!
Can't wait to see this one.
Really, really beautiful aircraft Bill & Dad. Fantastic.
Thanks for continuing to show us these wonderful builds.
Ya! Dad's Workshop keeps churning them out. Great stuff Bill and Dad.
BTW, I expect to see that M5 at the shoreline next Spring. Hey! What about at the next Pilot's Meeting?
Way to go Bill and Dad.
jack.
Blame Simon for this...last night he told me he likes to see what my dad is building!
When I started this thread, Dad was 89 and working on a small model of a Macchi M5 biplane/floatplane/fighter. Since then, he's finished the Macchi, a Dumas DH89 Dragon Rapide, a kit of an Albatros DV5, and started his part of a Traplet Anson. We've flown the Macchi and the Albatros.
Now at 91+, he's gone back to building the M5, except this time it's the bigger one at approx 50" WS. There's building time for all of us!
I'll post as progress is made.
I'll take full credit blame for this renewed thread! ;)
Your Dad build such interesting models and he builds so well. Thanks for taking the time to share, Bill. I love to see his subjects progress. :)
Absolutely!
Jack.