Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Topic started by: Michael on October 26, 2013, 09:06:21 PM

Title: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on October 26, 2013, 09:06:21 PM
My 2103/14 winter building project has just started.

This will be a balsa kit-built DC3, and will probably be finished in the Canadian scheme as in the image below.

There is a huge amount of balsa wood and plywood in this kit; see the image of the open box with a ruler across the box.

So far, I have spent over 2 hours just cutting apart and assembling the plans, and then removing most of the die-cut wood parts from their sheets and putting them into plastic bags, one for wing, fuselage, etc. You can get a sense of the size of the model by the photo of the fuselage side-view plan, also with a ruler on top for comparison.

I'm estimating that this will take about 4 months to build.

I will be using 2 E-Flite 32 brushless motors and 2 60 amp speed controls. I haven't figured out where everything will go, and I still have to order retracts.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: imran13 on October 26, 2013, 09:26:28 PM
Looks like its going to be really nice once finished ;D

Good luck with it Michael :)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on October 26, 2013, 09:54:41 PM
Very nice Michael. I love your choice of schemes its gorgeous.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on October 27, 2013, 01:12:19 PM
Construction started.

Stabilizer skeleton.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Wingnutz on October 27, 2013, 08:57:29 PM
Wow! Another cool build from the Rogozinsky workbench AND...done in CANADIAN COLOURS! :D
Great choices! I'm really interested in the retracts you're planning to use...scale?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on October 27, 2013, 10:50:12 PM
Yes, well, nearly scale.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on October 27, 2013, 11:15:41 PM
Hey!  I thought the Boss said you couldn't start building your new plane until you finished cleaning the garage!

Still, lookin' good!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on October 27, 2013, 11:17:33 PM
Yes, well, nearly clean.  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Wingnutz on October 28, 2013, 08:59:54 AM
Guessing you're planning the Robarts #619 mains retract system for your model.
1. Have you figured out how to drive these electrically or are you going to use the air system?
2. I don't see any oleo or spring action in these units...am I missing anything?
I'm really curious about these as I think they might work on the Avro Anson dad and I are building over the winter.
Good luck with your gooney bird!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on October 28, 2013, 06:07:35 PM
This is what I'm planning for the retracts.

Top Flite DC-3 Electric Retracts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5GKgvPXbYs#ws)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: battlestu on October 28, 2013, 06:38:38 PM
very cool!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: electroflyer on October 30, 2013, 09:25:15 AM
   Nice Michael,

   Where did you find that kit?

    Glenn
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on October 30, 2013, 07:57:32 PM
The kit is still commercially available.

I got it at A+J's.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on October 30, 2013, 09:51:15 PM
Robart Mfg. Ziroli DC-3/C-47 Electric Retracts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETrZV3d3h0Q#ws)

Here's the Zirolli electric conversion, looks real scale.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 02, 2013, 05:20:45 PM
Elevator construction done. That was quite a bit more work than I expected.

The fin is next, and it is a bit more complicated.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on November 02, 2013, 05:34:48 PM
It might have been a bit more work than you expected but it looks fabulous!

Take your time you've got all winter...
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: bfeist on November 02, 2013, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: Michael on November 02, 2013, 05:20:45 PM
Elevator construction done. That was quite a bit more work than I expected.

The fin is next, and it is a bit more complicated.

I was going to joke that you were "almost done", but then I saw how complex that stab and elevator is in the photo. She'll be a beaut when you're done!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on November 02, 2013, 07:18:09 PM
It's gorgeous.

Will you be offering rides in it?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 03, 2013, 10:38:21 AM
No rides, Simon.

*****************

I've started work on the fin, which seems more complicated than the elevator/stabilizer.

There are two versions of fin/rudder construction in this kit; one simpler version and a scale version. I'm going with the scale version.

This small amount of balsa shown here already involves more than 2 hours of measuring, cutting, sanding, drilling and gluing; I could have assembled several Bind-N-Flys in that time.  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on November 03, 2013, 11:31:26 AM
There was an almost complete kit at the London swap meet, I think Greg C may have bought it!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 03, 2013, 08:25:54 PM
Fin and rudder construction well under way.

This was several hours work, but it looks pretty good.

The hinge line is the brass tube that extends top and bottom.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on November 04, 2013, 04:11:45 PM
It's coming along nicely, Michael.  It'll be fantastic when it's done.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Tom M. on November 04, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
Yup- she's going to be a beaut Michael. Any thoughts of a parachute drop feature, either people or cargo? Sure would be cool!
  Tom
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 04, 2013, 07:25:08 PM
With the amount of effort and cost going into this project, the main 3 features I want are:

1. Smooth takeoff.
2. Smooth, stable flight.
3. Smooth landing.

;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on November 04, 2013, 07:40:25 PM
So, you want it all then Michael?! Lol
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 05, 2013, 07:26:02 PM
Fin/rudder main construction finished.

(The little Robert Pike in my head keeps telling me to sand it even more.  ;D )

Anyway, the fuselage is next, and I've got to clean up the mess I've made from the tail 'feathers'.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on November 05, 2013, 11:19:08 PM
Looks great and moving right along. The model in London had some form of balsa blocker on it. I was reading somewhere that film glues much better to balsa block than to raw wood. I'm going to experiment with some water based acrylic and see how it works with film.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 09, 2013, 05:47:06 PM
Fuselage started. I'll have to pay attention and start thinking about a battery hatch about now.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on November 09, 2013, 06:47:42 PM
That's a big model.

Would there be room in the wings/nacelles for the batteries as in the deuces wild?

Jack.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 09, 2013, 06:56:09 PM
The nacelles also hold the retracted landing gear and the servos. I don't know if there's room.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: pmackenzie on November 10, 2013, 01:19:00 AM
If you put the batteries in the fuse, then you might also want to put the ESCs there as well to avoid long battery leads.

Following this thread makes me want to pull out the Gold edition P47 I started several years ago but never finished.
Tail feathers are done, Fuse done to the point of sheeting the top half and wing framed up but no sheeting.
(Got stuck on doing a scale retracting tail wheel and more realistic main wheel wells and doors, then sort of never got back at it  :-[)

At the rate you are going you will have caught up to me and pass me by in a couple of weeks  :)

Pat MacKenzie
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 10, 2013, 05:46:04 PM
More fuselage and tail work. Elevator and rudder linkages will be fully inside the fuselage.

Stabilizer and fin glued onto the fuselage. Top sheeting is next.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on November 10, 2013, 07:24:54 PM
The P-47 sounds close, Pat.  Will you finish it for next summer?  You should!

Yes, I saw Michael's DC3 today.  It looks very nice.  Well done!

Robert
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 10, 2013, 08:05:23 PM
Yeah, Pat, finish it!  ;D

Top stringers done. That's it for tonight.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 10, 2013, 09:07:09 PM
One more step; one more photo.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on November 10, 2013, 10:16:54 PM
Michael.
Please stop making so much progress on your "winter" project.
I have yet to even hold a knife this season and your kicking my butt with your progress.

Thanks.   The remaining members of temac.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on November 10, 2013, 10:32:34 PM
He's stoked on hot chocolate.
Ed get your dopamine levels up and you too can make progress.


jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on November 10, 2013, 11:17:21 PM
I'm with Ed.  Stop making us look bad.  I've only laid my plans out so far.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 11, 2013, 08:15:40 PM
A couple more hours work. That's about it for the next 10 days or so, due to my working schedule.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 22, 2013, 09:48:39 PM
Ok, back to building.

Lower fuselage construction underway, and internal rudder and elevator linkages being set up.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on November 22, 2013, 10:44:59 PM
That's coming along really nicely, Michael.  Nice structure and linkages!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 23, 2013, 06:47:11 PM
Laminated stringers. More work, but easier and more fun.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 24, 2013, 08:45:18 PM
One more image before the fuselage is closed up; I'm working on the fuselage sheeting. Eventually, the seams will be filled and then rough sanded. Later on in the construction, a finer sanding will be done.

I have made my first modification on the model. I moved the rudder and elevator servos one bay back, in case I decide to place the flight batteries in the fuselage.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 24, 2013, 08:47:15 PM
Main fuselage sheeting complete. That was a weekend's worth of work. Most seams have been filled light filler, and I'll sand it this week. There is still a lot of work on the fuselage to be done.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on November 24, 2013, 11:23:07 PM
How are you going to do the scale large puddles of oil under the motors each time you park it? 

It looks great Michael nice progress.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: tuck on November 26, 2013, 10:48:27 AM
Nice. very Nice.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on November 30, 2013, 10:06:56 PM
Still working on the fuselage.

Nose block glued on and rough-sanded, cockpit made into a battery hatch, more work on the tail area, dorsal fin built and installed, and lots of filling and sanding. I hope to finish the main construction of the fuselage this weekend.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: bfeist on November 30, 2013, 10:10:27 PM
Gorgeous!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on November 30, 2013, 11:00:08 PM
Looks like a real DC3.

Beautiful work.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on November 30, 2013, 11:05:43 PM
I'm glad to see your keeping the can of whipped cream out of your photos.

Classic lines of a beautiful plane Michael. It looks great
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 01, 2013, 07:43:13 PM
It looks like the last photo, but has at least 6 hours more work in it.

Still needs sanding, but a lot has been done, especially near the tail. A hatch at the rear bottom has been made in case adjustments are needed for rudder and elevator.

It's been 5 weeks so far, and I'm enjoying the building. At this rate (the wing is more complicated than the fuselage), I estimate at least 2 more months, maybe 3, to finish and paint.

I'll start the center section of the wing in a day or two.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on December 01, 2013, 08:27:37 PM
Looks fabulous Michael.  Thank you for continuing to share with us. :D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 04, 2013, 08:29:34 PM
Working on the wing center section, ....

Between last night and tonight, I spent 2½ hours gluing together firewalls, adjusting ribs, making spars, and I still have more of that kind of stuff to do before I even get close to gluing a rib to anything!

Anyway, it's slow progress and there's nothing worth photographing at this point.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 05, 2013, 09:10:18 PM
A bit of progress on the center wing section.

I'm mostly following instructions, but modifying just a bit for the servo-driven retracts and for electric power.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on December 05, 2013, 10:38:14 PM
Look at the size and that's just the centre wing section.

Nice looking work.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on December 05, 2013, 10:53:15 PM
As no one seems to follow my "beer bottle for scale" requests we need to come to some kind of agreement!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on December 05, 2013, 10:57:08 PM
The instruction manual in the photo worked for me.

I worked for Carling O'Keefe for a while and I can tell you have beer can fixation.

There is a cure for that, it's called wine!

or in your case whine!

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Gregor77 on December 06, 2013, 01:02:22 PM
That looks fantastic!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 06, 2013, 01:38:15 PM
As we get older we sometimes begin to doubt our ability to "make a difference" in the world. It is at these times that our hopes are boosted by the remarkable achievements of other "seniors" who have found the courage to take on challenges that would make many of us wither.

Harold Schlumberg is such a person.


THIS IS QUOTED FROM HAROLD:

"I've often been asked, 'What do you do now that you're retired?'

Well... I'm fortunate to have a chemical engineering background and one of the things I enjoy most is converting beer, wine and whiskey into urine. It's rewarding, uplifting, satisfying and fulfilling. I do it every day and I really enjoy it."

Harold is an inspiration to us all.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Wingnutz on December 07, 2013, 08:59:36 AM
I don't have a chemical engineering degree but I follow Harold's recipe for a happy retirement...daily.
There is merit in Ed's attempt to provide a size reference for our photos and no, I don't want to see any pictures of TEMACers naked in their workshops using beer bottles as ... 8)
Really impressed with the DC-3!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 07, 2013, 11:54:08 PM
Left wing started.

Each rib and the spar had to be filed to fit diagonally on each other, and spars were built up from 2 pieces each.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 09, 2013, 08:44:59 PM
More progress.

Top Flite DC3 retracts with JR servos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fNq3anq2LI#ws)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on December 09, 2013, 08:54:30 PM
Looks super, Moving right along eh!

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on December 09, 2013, 08:54:55 PM
That looks amazing! Super cool mechanism.

Way to go Michael and thanks again for keeping us all up to date with the mega build.

S
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: battlestu on December 09, 2013, 10:18:26 PM
very nice!!!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on December 11, 2013, 10:37:11 AM
I've been very quiet lately (so busy) but I just wanted to say how fantastic your plane is coming together.  Good job!.. to you Michael, and everyone else who's building away.  Keep up the great work!

Robert
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 21, 2013, 08:42:22 PM
OK, a long stretch of work at the office is clearing, and I put a little more time into the wing.

Basic structure of outer panels are done and glued to center section. It was actually quite a bit of work.

I had wanted removable wing sections, but since there is so much going on within the wings (wires, retracts, aileron-flap and retract servos, etc.) there was little room for changes. It's a big wing, but it will fit in my SUV.

I started on the nacelles and made adjustments for mounting the electric motors.

The nacelles will hold the motors, retracts, retract servos and flap servos, plus it will have passing through it wires to the speed controls and wires from the aileron servos.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on December 21, 2013, 08:47:24 PM
Looks magic! Great to see it coming together.

Those nacelles are going to hold quite a bit! Build them strong.

What's your glue of choice?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 21, 2013, 09:09:21 PM
CA (thin and medium) and epoxy.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2013, 03:35:10 PM
A few more hours on the wing installing servo rails, dihedral braces, retract braces, gussets, nacelle parts, hinge anchor blocks, etc., and then the bottom sheeting.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on December 25, 2013, 04:06:29 PM
I can't believe you're allowed to build on Christmas Day!!!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 25, 2013, 05:29:47 PM
Oh, is today Christmas?  ;D

We went to a friend for a long 3-hour lunch, and now I'm back building the center-flap.

The wing has a 3-section flap, and each section is built up with ribs and all kinds of little bits.
The center-flap bottom sheet (about 2" x 20") is built up from 2 different sheets of balsa and one of ply; lots of work, but fun!

I'll have to stop soon for supper and an evening with other friends, and when I finally get them out of the way, I'll get back to my flaps!

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2013, 01:42:29 PM
3 (split) flap sections hinged (but not glued) in place, and flap servos and hatches installed.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on December 26, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
Very neat looking work. How does it work with 3 sections and two servos?

Jack
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2013, 02:12:14 PM
Sections are joined by a loose wire inside secured brass tubes.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on December 26, 2013, 06:33:32 PM
Very nice, Michael!!!  I'm plugging away at my Stranraer again after a period of little progress, so it's nice to see others building away for motivation.

Great work... as always!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 26, 2013, 09:53:50 PM
Thanks Robert, but truth be told, you are the who motivated me to start building again.

I'm really enjoying it!

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2013, 11:52:49 AM
Plans change! I've made 2 corrections/deviations from earlier planning.

The first correction was due to a mistake I made with one of the flap servos. I installed the servos in opposite directions, like we normally do with ailerons, but the flaps servos need to move in the same direction, both pushing at the same time; not one pushing while the other pulls, like needed for ailerons. I could have solved this problem by using separate channels and transmitter programming, but I preferred not to do that. I re-positioned the servo and opened a new hole in the flap servo hatch cover. The new hole and closed old hole are visible in the photo.

The second was a result of the electric conversion. The retracts take up quite a bit of room in the nacelles and it would have been difficult to get the power wires around them, so I repositioned the motor with the wires on top, and cut channels for the wires to get into the wings. There is about a centimeter of clear room above the retracts, and that's where the wires will be. You can see the cutouts in the firewall, nacelle wall and rib, in the photo. This will be completely covered up once the nacelle is fully constructed.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2013, 12:59:47 PM
All wing-interior wiring complete, and the wing is ready for top sheeting, and then nacelle construction.

Note the 2 flap servos in the same direction.

I'll take a break now and consider building something small and simple for the indoor funfly.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on December 27, 2013, 02:00:08 PM
Love it - 2 days until the indoor fly and Michael decides to just knock something together! Something simple. We all know it will be a masterpiece!

How about a small, depron DC3?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 27, 2013, 02:02:35 PM
Quote from: sihinch on December 27, 2013, 02:00:08 PM

How about a small, depron DC3?

Actually, that was the plan, but there's not enough time for that.

I'm working on something smaller.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2013, 05:18:19 PM
Not enough time (or interest) to build a micro model for tomorrow.

I did build a fuselage and put together a power and radio system, but I'd rather work on the DC3.

I'm working slowly on the top skins of the wings.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on December 28, 2013, 07:01:19 PM
See!  It's hard to get excited about a dopey indoor model when you're building an awesome scale masterpiece!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 28, 2013, 10:53:03 PM
Masterpiece? I'm not sure, but it is more fun!  ;D

Wing bottom fully sheeted and top outer wing panels sheeted.

More to go, and the split flaps covers and ailerons to build, and then of course, a whole lot of filling and sanding.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 29, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
Flap covers installed. Each cover is made up of 2 pieces of balsa and a piece of plywood, cut to size and then sanded to shape.

Also, the center section of the wing has been cut open, for access to the wiring.
Note the wires are labeled for radio functions, and the opening has rounded corners; I'm pretending to be organized and neat.  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2013, 12:39:28 PM
Aileron construction underway.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Tom M. on December 30, 2013, 01:45:21 PM
  Looking really good Michael- have you decided on the covering method yet?
  Tom
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2013, 02:05:15 PM
Water-based polyurethane and fiberglass, and then paint.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Tom M. on December 30, 2013, 06:00:07 PM
 Was wondering if you were going wirh WBPU or epoxy resin- enquiring minds....  :)
  Tom
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on December 30, 2013, 06:14:16 PM
Lookin' great!  Keep up the good work!

BTW, don't forget Colin's excellent recommendation for sealing the wood before you apply a heavy coat of WBPU... Is THAT what you were asking about last night?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2013, 07:35:30 PM
I don't know what I'm going to do.  ;D

When I get to that point, I'll ask everyone for input.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2013, 08:20:06 PM
Main wing construction is complete. Next will be filling and sanding, and then building the nacelles.

Time for a well-deserved hangar-flight. It looks like an airplane!

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on December 30, 2013, 09:15:37 PM
Looks sweet!  Now get back to work.  We're really anxious to see the finished product!!  :)

Andy
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on December 30, 2013, 10:27:14 PM
OK, back at work, but now I'm done for the evening.

The wing has been filled, and will be dry and ready for sanding tomorrow morning.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 01, 2014, 12:58:03 PM
OK, I don't have a beer can to use as reference, but Jack said he'd volunteer a beer belly.  ;D

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on January 01, 2014, 02:31:09 PM
Looks great Michael!  impressive size and build.  Oh and the plane is nice too!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 01, 2014, 06:29:24 PM
Flap and aileron linkages installed. These will be fine-tuned once the model is painted and the flap and aileron hinges are glued in place.

Next is the nacelle construction. I may not get to thay until the weekend.
I'm back to work tomorrow, so progress will return to a slower but more normal pace.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 03, 2014, 08:11:41 PM
Nacelles under construction.

See the rounded notches to leave room for the mounting spacers.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on January 03, 2014, 10:54:02 PM
Are those landing lights that I can see drooped over the wing, behind the nacelle?

Very impressive build.

I think RAF color scheme! Lol
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 04, 2014, 06:50:19 AM
Those are just speed control wires.

The plane will have Canadian colours.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Bigstik on January 04, 2014, 11:21:57 AM
Tried to post, but got message 'too big' Is there a size limit on what can be posted?

Bigstik
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Wingnutz on January 05, 2014, 07:48:06 AM
Quote from: Michael on January 04, 2014, 06:50:19 AM
Those are just speed control wires.

The plane will have Canadian colours.
:D!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Bigstik on January 05, 2014, 12:19:41 PM
Nice work Michael. it shows that you've been hanging around Piker a lot.

I have a new project as well. Had Don Wilson of Don's Balsa Grimsby cut a short kit of Island Aircraft Spectra amphibian. It was in RCM magazine afew years back and Laddie updated/modified the plans. He flew his at the EMFSO OEF Expo in 2007.

The plane is very similar in design to the Seawind, but imho better looking and Laddie said it flies better.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 05, 2014, 12:21:16 PM
Nice plane, Al.

Yup! I've been hanging around with Piker quite a bit, and that's who I curse each time I have to go back and do more sanding!

;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 05, 2014, 12:25:24 PM
Nacelle basic construction is done.

Each plastic cowl is made of 3 pieces of thick styrene, and each had to be carefully cut out and assembled.
Those alone took about 2 hours to build.

Photos show: basic wood construction; nacelles sheeted and with some filler; nacelles after rough sanding and cowls installed; cowl and nacelle on wing-bottom.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on January 05, 2014, 12:41:29 PM
Lots of work Michael but is looking very DC3!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: bfeist on January 05, 2014, 01:30:10 PM
This build thread takes the cake! Your progress is amazingly fast.

BTW, that picture of Jack verifies my suspicion that he is the real builder behind all of this progress (now that he's an expert after the scratch build course). :)

Ben
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: bfeist on January 05, 2014, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: piker on December 30, 2013, 06:14:16 PM
Lookin' great!  Keep up the good work!

BTW, don't forget Colin's excellent recommendation for sealing the wood before you apply a heavy coat of WBPU... Is THAT what you were asking about last night?

Here's a previous post on what I did for the nooner wing (to seal before applying WBPU). http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,4357.msg25527.html#msg25527 (http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,4357.msg25527.html#msg25527)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 05, 2014, 06:57:27 PM
It's been a productive weekend. Next is the wing fillets, and then a complete sanding.
The next couple weeks may be busy at work, so probably not a lot will be done on this model.
It's still on schedule to be finished by the end of February.

Time for a little more 'hangar flying'.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on January 05, 2014, 07:45:06 PM
I really like your DC-3.  It's beautiful.  But I really, REALLY, REALLY like your scratch-built assemby table with the scale astro-turf covering.  I sure hope you're going to bring that to the field with your DC-3.  It really enhances the overall aesthetics - and it would be a great platform for photographing your plane and other people's winter projects! :D

Andy
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on January 05, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
That looks fantastic!  I hate you!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on January 05, 2014, 10:20:03 PM
Quote from: Michael on January 05, 2014, 06:57:27 PM
It's been a productive weekend. Next is the wing fillets, and then a complete sanding.
The next couple weeks may be busy at work, so probably not a lot will be done on this model.
It's still on schedule to be finished by the end of February.

Time for a little more 'hangar flying'.

Is that Toblerone in photo #054 going to be used for cargo?  How many hours of building can you get out of a chocolate bar that size??

Andy
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 06, 2014, 09:51:30 AM
Quote from: piker on January 05, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
That looks fantastic!  I hate you!

From you, Robert, that is the highest form of praise one can get, when it comes to building a model airplane!  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Wingnutz on January 06, 2014, 09:19:53 PM
I'm impressed with your task accomplishment rate! Wow!
Model looks great and reminds me of the Millardair DC-3 that took me for a Christmas lights flight over Toronto way back when flights like that cost $5.00!(yeah I know... The Jurassic Era!). Also remids me of the Great Lakes Airlines DC-3s I loaded as a university student/summer time ramp hand at Malton(aka Pearson)
Talk about an aircraft with a long and distinguished history!...It's been around longer than I have...great choice Michael!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on January 09, 2014, 09:55:18 AM
Hey Michael,

It was really nice to see the fully assembled DC3 last night.  It looks SO nice and I think we're all looking forward to watching the next construction steps.  It'll be an exciting test flight at TEMAC in the spring.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 15, 2014, 09:41:53 PM
OK, back to it!

I just spent about 3 hours fitting, adjusting and gluing on a plywood wing saddle and plastic wing fillets.
(I cut out and shaped the wing fillets a few days ago; that took a couple hours too.)
I also put on a light filler along the edges, and will sand that tomorrow, and then apply another layer, as well as some other balsa parts to fill in the bottom.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on January 16, 2014, 08:19:16 AM
Phew, you're back.  I thought you'd sold the DC3  ;)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 16, 2014, 08:31:18 PM
I'm working on the bottom of the wing fillets where they merge into the fuselage.

This is the last stage of construction!

One this is done, hopefully some time this weekend, I will start some sanding and preparation for fiber-glassing and finishing.

Of course, I still have to finish the radio installation and other component placement.

This is a list for me to do:

1. Finish fillets and sand final shape.
2. Remove all landing gear and other things not to be painted.
3. Fill and sand entire model (twice).
4. Seal the balsa so it won't warp when painted.
5. Sand again.
6. Cover with fiberglass and water-based polyester-urethane.
7. Sand again, and sand plastic parts.
8. Another coat and more sanding.
9. Spray model and plastic parts with primer.
10. Install motors, landing gear, and all components.
11. Install battery tray, battery, and balance the model.
12. Finish battery hatch.
13. Remove motors, landing gear, and all non-to-be-painted components.
14. Paint model. (One step. That sounds easy).
15. Re-install motors, landing gear, and all components.
16. Find and install suitable propellers.
17. Fly model.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Tom M. on January 17, 2014, 07:20:11 PM
 Maybe only 800 hrs. or so left to go, Michael- you're almost there! (I'm glassing and sanding, sanding, sanding the Hornet right now- perhaps 2016 hrs. to completion)
  Tom
(This is meant as encouragement) ;)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 18, 2014, 05:03:35 PM
Wing saddle, fillets and parts complete.
Basic construction is FINISHED! Nearly 3 months!

Light overall sanding is next.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on January 19, 2014, 10:54:41 AM
Excellent!  Great work!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 21, 2014, 10:35:57 AM
I'm spraying on a sealer, so that when I later apply the water-based poly-acrylic, the wood won't warp.

I'm doing this on our loading dock at work, so my house won't smell of the spray.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on January 21, 2014, 10:40:28 AM
Still looks great. Did you check with Robert if you did enough sanding?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Gregor77 on January 21, 2014, 11:29:41 AM
Michael, where did you get the nylon stand offs for the motor mounts?  I keep going to Lowes as HB and RONA don't carry this stuff, but I need hundreds of them when doing 1/4 scale planes.  I cleaned out Lowes last week and ran short again.  Is there a place to buy them in bulk.  They are great for quick conversions.   Great work!   It's going to be a great summer, I can't wait!  :o
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 21, 2014, 12:03:38 PM
A few years ago, Colin Moses ordered a bunch of these, and he got a bag full of various sizes for me.

Actually, I have no more after this model, and would like to get some more.

Anybody know where we can get these?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 21, 2014, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: sihinch on January 21, 2014, 10:40:28 AM
Still looks great. Did you check with Robert if you did enough sanding?

I did not sand 'perfectly'.

I sanded 'pretty good'.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on January 21, 2014, 01:27:29 PM
I'm on my way over to have a look and I'm bringing my inspection lamp!

Just kidding  ;D  Although I could... you and the plane are just down the road from where I sit right now :)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 21, 2014, 01:37:47 PM
I will sand lightly before applying a light coat of poly-acrylic.

Once that dries, I will sand lightly before applying fiberglass cloth.

Once that dries, I will sand lightly before applying another coat of poly-acrylic.

If that suffices, I will sand again before applying a primer.

If needed, I will sand again and apply more primer.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on January 21, 2014, 02:14:13 PM
Atta Boy!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 22, 2014, 07:06:30 PM
... And we're off !!!!

Fiberglassing has commenced!

This could take a few days. I'm moving forward slowly and carefully, and it looks good so far.

I ordered decals/graphics today, and I bought counter-rotating (push and pull) 3-blade props.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on January 22, 2014, 09:08:37 PM
Good luck.

:)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on January 22, 2014, 09:27:13 PM
Quote from: Gregor77 on January 21, 2014, 11:29:41 AM
  It's going to be a great summer, I can't wait!  :o

It's a great winter!  And it's here NOW!!!  No waiting required!   :D

Andy

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 24, 2014, 07:29:11 PM
I just used fiber-cloth in a way that regular iron-on covering would have been much more challenging.

I covered the middle upper section of the wing with a single sheet of cloth, including the nacelles.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on January 24, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
Cool!  It's quite satisfying, isn't it?   :)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 24, 2014, 10:35:46 PM
Yup!  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: pmackenzie on January 26, 2014, 10:35:54 AM
Quote from: Michael on January 21, 2014, 12:03:38 PM
A few years ago, Colin Moses ordered a bunch of these, and he got a bag full of various sizes for me.

Actually, I have no more after this model, and would like to get some more.

Anybody know where we can get these?

Mcmaster Carr sells them.
They won't normally ship to Canada unless you have an existing account with them.
If there is demand I can put in an order, pick up (from my place) only :).
(Or someone could pick up and get them to one of the pilot's meetings)

http://www.mcmaster.com/#nylon-spacers/=qf416z (http://www.mcmaster.com/#nylon-spacers/=qf416z)

If anyone is interested let me know what size(s) you want.
Lots of stuff there, so look around on the site. They sell almost everything, including the kitchen sink  :)

Pat MacKenzie
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on January 26, 2014, 11:08:19 AM
Quote from: Michael on January 24, 2014, 07:29:11 PM
I just used fiber-cloth in a way that regular iron-on covering would have been much more challenging.

I covered the middle upper section of the wing with a single sheet of cloth, including the nacelles.

That's amazing Michael!  I can imagine trying to cover that with film covering!!  Very nice work and encouraging to see the material work so well for you.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on January 31, 2014, 08:53:12 PM
Fuselage mostly covered in fiberglass-cloth; fin being covered.

Slow but steady progress.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 03, 2014, 02:24:17 PM
The entire model has been painted with primer, except the ailerons, elevator and rudder, which will be covered with fabric-textured iron-on covering.

Next step is to install the motors, and assemble the plane, and figure out where to put the batteries.

Note in the photo that I didn't yet trim off the fiber-cloth covering the center hatches in the wing.
That was simply to keep spray paint out.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on February 03, 2014, 02:47:26 PM
Quote from: Michael on February 03, 2014, 02:24:17 PM
The entire model has been painted with primer, except the ailerons, elevator and rudder, which will be covered with fabric-textured iron-on covering.

Next step is to install the motors, and assemble the plane, and figure out where to put the batteries.

Note in the photo that I didn't yet trim off the fiber-cloth covering the center hatches in the wing.
That was simply to keep spray paint out.

What a difference a spray makes!!  :D

Looking great Michael.  When do we do the photo shoot?!

Andy
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 03, 2014, 03:43:44 PM
Andy will you please stop pushing the quote button. We've already read it and it takes up too much space. LOL LOL.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on February 03, 2014, 04:15:46 PM
Hey Michael:

How about some skis for your DC-3?  Just think of that long, smooth runway!  You could even ride on top of it from the highway to pits!

Andy
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 03, 2014, 05:54:43 PM
That's a cool picture!

Michael!  You're priming already?  Lookin' good! 
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 03, 2014, 06:10:24 PM
Still a lot of work to go.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Skyking on February 03, 2014, 07:36:40 PM
That's a Biggg Plane.
I haven't read the whole thread and maybe you already thought about this: There is a new TV show starting and they fly a DC 3. Paint yours the same?

Ken
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 03, 2014, 09:07:16 PM
I'm finishing in the scheme shown here:
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 03, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
Moving bits covered; not a single wrinkle!  ;D

These will be painted, too.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on February 03, 2014, 10:33:01 PM
That colour scheme is gorgeous.

Can I be 1st in line to buy this plane when you sell it? Lol
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: electroflyer on February 04, 2014, 08:11:55 AM
   Wow,
   That is coming along really nicely!
  I like Andy's suggestion of skis, that plane is begging for some all weather flying up in the frozen Tundra. lol
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on February 04, 2014, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: electroflyer on February 04, 2014, 08:11:55 AM
   Wow,
   That is coming along really nicely!
  I like Andy's suggestion of skis, that plane is begging for some all weather flying up in the frozen Tundra. lol

Yeah!  Michael's favourite habitat!!  ;D

Andy
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Tom M. on February 04, 2014, 04:44:48 PM
 Have floats been mentioned?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on February 04, 2014, 06:20:05 PM
Those amphib floats would be awesome on black water (Frenchman's Bay) AND on a Geotex runway, and, of course, on white water!!  Go for it Michael! 

Andy
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 05, 2014, 11:29:07 AM
General assembly started. I need to assemble everything and make a place for the batteries, and balance the model, before painting.

Tail 'feathers' are 'dry'- hinged in place.

I think it looks pretty good!  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 05, 2014, 11:48:38 AM
I agree it does look very good.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 05, 2014, 01:14:50 PM
It looks REALLY good.  So cool.  I love airplanes  ;D

But wait!  Way do your trailing edges on both the elevators and rudder not line up with the tail fairing?  I think you need to start the build over  ;)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 05, 2014, 01:32:15 PM
Silly, he's showing scale wear and tear.

Jack
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 05, 2014, 01:34:24 PM
The tail cone was attached last.

I suppose I could have trimmed it shorter, but it would also have changed the profile/shape, so I left it as is.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 05, 2014, 02:33:45 PM
I don't know...  Do you think you'll win the scale award at Kingston with THAT flaw?!!!  Especially after I point it out to everyone?   ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 05, 2014, 02:36:11 PM
I know who will the target in Kingston for being nobbled!

LOL

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 05, 2014, 02:41:08 PM
Quote from: piker on February 05, 2014, 02:33:45 PM
I don't know...  Do you think you'll win the scale award at Kingston with THAT flaw?!!!  Especially after I point it out to everyone?   ;D

We all know your biplane isn't really scale.

I guess you'll be hoping for best sport plane award.  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 05, 2014, 04:23:04 PM
I'm entering my Nooner in the scale contest.  It's "true scale" to the original Nooner.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 05, 2014, 05:30:37 PM
You may have a chance with that one.  ;D

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Tom M. on February 05, 2014, 06:18:34 PM
 So versatile!
  Tom
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on February 05, 2014, 10:03:48 PM
I've witnessed this one flying.  Its such a good plane all the people want to do is JUMP OUT IF IT!  Watch the videos you will get the idea of how they fly down there!  Heck Kirby Chambliss lives right down the road so to speak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2hbu4083Sc&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2hbu4083Sc&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca9IUu_Lgdc&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca9IUu_Lgdc&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_yushwKIzE&feature=youtube_gdata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_yushwKIzE&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 06, 2014, 07:21:15 PM
Based on a trial balance of all the components, it seems as though a battery pack in the nose (under the cockpit-hatch) will work just fine.

I also tried measuring amp draw with the 3-blade propellers, which happen to look really good (see the image below), on various battery packs.

I tried a 4-cell pack with which I was afraid to go past 1/2 throttle (about 25 amps) because it was really pulling hard and fast.

I then tried a 3-cell pack which only drew 23 amps, but was still incredibly strong.

That only makes about 500 to 550 watts total, (two motors) at full throttle, for a 10 pound (or so) model airplane.

It doesn't seem like much, but it really feels strong, and I think it will be more than enough.

Any comments?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on February 06, 2014, 07:48:25 PM
Even with its huge wing area and light weight for its size I would consider trying to run with just one motor and a 4S pack and see what the numbers are.  550W on 10lbs just to me seems low on power.  It would be nice to have that little bit extra.  Remember this is a converted glow model and might require a fair bit of pitch speed to fly stable.  I hope some of the other larger model guys chime in here as Im curious to hear there thoughts.  Despite all that it looks great Michael.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 06, 2014, 07:49:33 PM
Fuselage former horizontal braces removed, and plenty of room for a battery tray.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 06, 2014, 11:01:32 PM
That battery hatch looks great.

I would go for 100 W/lb, so 1000 Watts tota).  You've only got 50w/lb there now.  That would have been considered marginal back in the NiCad days.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 09, 2014, 06:26:28 PM
I started painting.

This will take a while, and there's lots of improvements needed as I make progress.

Anyway, here's a photo, warts and all.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 09, 2014, 07:01:56 PM
Must be dwarf warts, I can't see any. Looks great to me.

Jack.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on February 10, 2014, 01:50:16 PM
Jack's right.  We need a high-res photo and a good magnifier so we can find the mini warts.

It's looking fabulous Michael.

Andy

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: battlestu on February 10, 2014, 11:17:15 PM
What warts?.... You should see some of my builds
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 11, 2014, 09:57:38 AM
Slight improvements; still working at it.
Still waiting for decals to be delivered.
I'll start the wing in a few days.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 11, 2014, 10:43:06 AM
Wow!  Very nice!

Where are you painting?  in the house?  I bet Lyn loves THAT  :)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 11, 2014, 10:45:20 AM
Must be "Micro Warts" by now 'cause it looks great to me.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 11, 2014, 01:25:42 PM
Quote from: Papa on February 11, 2014, 10:45:20 AM
Must be "Micro Warts" by now 'cause it looks great to me.

Jack.

There are "warts".

This has been an overly ambitious project for me.
Building a model of this complexity (rounded fuselage with balsa skin, kit built with retracts, flaps and twin-wiring, complete fiberglassing, painting, etc.), on a strict 4-month period, has been challenging.

The final product will be nice, but it will have its flaws.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on February 11, 2014, 02:26:19 PM
OK, so how many warts per pound?  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 11, 2014, 03:07:13 PM
75 will make it a sport flyer.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on February 11, 2014, 09:58:25 PM
Looks truly great Michael. I hope you are very proud.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 13, 2014, 11:02:37 AM
It was very nice to see the DC3 fuselage at the Pilot's Meeting last night.  I was admiring the lines of the fuselage as Michael was talking about the plane.  The DC3 really does have nice lines.

It'll be a fantastic model, Michael!  But don't rush the build of this magnificent model to make time for a bunch of ARFs.  You already have enough ARFs in my opinion  ;D

Unless the ARFs are seaplanes.  In that case I whole heartedly endorse than endeavour  :)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Gregor77 on February 13, 2014, 11:33:08 AM
I am sorry that I missed the meeting!   I would have liked to see the DC-3 too!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2014, 11:08:05 AM
Basic wing colours applied; flaps and ailerons installed; tail-feathers being applied.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2014, 12:33:04 PM
Graphics, carefully being applied.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 16, 2014, 12:36:20 PM
Looking even better!

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2014, 07:06:50 PM
Working on radio and power setup.
Decals applied (they really dress up the model).

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 16, 2014, 07:13:10 PM
Not a wart in sight!

GoodGreat looking model.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2014, 08:03:02 PM
Now 888 watts static (60 amp draw) at full throttle.

That's with 10/7 contra-rotating 3-blade props.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on February 16, 2014, 08:07:29 PM
That looks awesome, Michael.  Congratulations.

I'm very pleased for you and very jealous.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 16, 2014, 08:20:00 PM
Still to do:

1. fix receiver in place.
2. wire voltage regulator to battery connector; plug into receiver.
3. put a latch or other hold-down mechanism on cockpit/battery hatch.
4. balance.
5. secure prop adapters with thread-lock.
6. more finishing touches: panes lines and other details.

Model weighs under 9 pounds with a 4-cell 4000mah battery pack (that's less than I was expecting. I'm please with that).

However, I'll probably need a 4-cell 5000mah battery pack to balance the plane without useless added weight, or I can use a separate 2-cell battery for the voltage regulator.

Comments? Advice?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Andy Hoffer on February 16, 2014, 10:04:12 PM
Beautiful Michael. 

Skis?  Winter maiden on the new "Snow-Tex" runway?  .  Seem such a shame to keep it hangared till June when the field dries up!

Complimentary photographic coverage!   :D

Andy

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on February 16, 2014, 10:10:39 PM
Use the two cell and you will have flexibility for fine tuning the balance.

Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on February 17, 2014, 10:56:24 PM
Separate RX power with regulator or LiFe gets my vote.  Much more reliable than esc based bec's and if you ever did have main battery troubles you could still fly it.  Ive been using the 10C LiFe pack for over a year in my Enigma and its been flawless.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDVCA&P=6 (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDVCA&P=6)

That's the one im using but you could use something even larger if desired.

The model looks absolutely beautiful in that rear quarter photo Michael.  That extra work to make the scale style tail is a nice touch.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 20, 2014, 01:32:34 PM
The DC3 is looking really great!  The finishing details have come together fast!  Great work!

BTW, I'm going with a separate BEC run from the main power battery on all my large planes now.  I just like the idea of eliminating a separate RX pack and the need to make sure it's charged and maintained well.  I've always considered the Rx pack to be the weakest link in my in-flight system.  And if you need CG adjustment, it'll be much more effective if you move the main pack a bit... assuming you have the adjustment space.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on February 20, 2014, 04:54:49 PM
Why do you consider it the weakest link?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on February 20, 2014, 06:51:06 PM
More from the old days of Ni-cads where I would always wonder about the charge state and the general condition of these little packs that we tend to forget about, charge every once in a while, or worse, every time we go flying, so there's that ol' memory concern, and I certainly wouldn't cycle them.

Compare that to our power packs that get all sorts of exercise to keep them healthy, lots of very detailed attention, and a good peak charge before every flight.  We are much more likely to notice a drop in performance of a power pack, as it ages, then a separate Rx pack where we won't know if it's in trouble until the plane it's in crashes.  Also, even a really tired old flight pack will probably have enough in reserve to power the Rx, long after there isn't enough power to fly any more.  You'd have to REALLY drain the flight pack down before you lose Rx power.  When you power your Rx with the power pack, you're literally putting a freshly peaked battery in the plane for every flight, and, you also never have to worry about forgetting to charge the separate pack.

That's how I look at it. 
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on February 20, 2014, 11:15:33 PM
You can get Rx pack voltage displays though. Would that not help reduce risk to acceptable levels?
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on February 20, 2014, 11:45:14 PM
LiFe receiver packs solve lots of failure points. No memory,  low storage drain,  high capacity,  6Volt output eliminates external regulator and gives strong servos.  Nicads what's a nicad Robert?  Another advantage is very safe setup. Rx power is independent and if using it only the motor can never start.  Also you can power up the model motor battery and until you power the receiver the esc will remain unarmed. 
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on April 27, 2014, 10:38:12 PM
Thanks for the photos, Andy.

The maiden/test flight was a success. The plane flew nicely, and felt 'lighter' in the air than expected.

The landing was excellent and smooth.

I did bend knock the retracts in a bit when taxiing after the flight, but the repair is easy.


Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Ededge2002 on April 27, 2014, 11:00:47 PM
That second photo is great!

I was watching the preparations but looked away and when I looked up you were flying it as if it was old hat.  Congratulations on a great build thread finish!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: wollins on May 02, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
Michael, that plane looks absolutely awesome in the air! (and in your hands) Following your build has been really inspirational to me in my attempt at the waterbomber.

Colin
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: piker on May 02, 2014, 09:35:48 AM
Yes!  I forgot to congratulate you on your accomplishments with this plane specifically.  Great build thread, great inspirations, and a perfect test flight.  I'm so glad I was there to witness it!

Great work, Michael!!!!

I'm looking forward to having the DC3 as part of the TEMAC sky-scape   :)
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on August 31, 2015, 07:49:40 PM
Some of you may know, I crashed my DC3 due to a radio problem.

http://temac.ca/smf/index.php/topic,5289.0.html

Horizon Hobby has been pretty good to me; they fixed my radio and compensated me fairly, but my model is still pretty broken.

Well, today the repairs have begun! I'm starting with the fuselage and I expect this will take about 1 or 2 weeks. The wing looks pretty bad, but I'll deal with that later. The retracts are badly damaged, and I'll have to order new ones.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on August 31, 2015, 09:21:30 PM
That's the spirit, Michael. Putting all the skills he learned at the scratch building class to good use. LOL.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on August 31, 2015, 09:43:26 PM
2 hours of work done.

Another day will be sanding, filling, more sanding, fiberglass, apply water-based poly-urethane, and paint, and trim.

Deja-vu.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 01, 2015, 08:58:57 PM
Fuselage has been sanded and smeared with filler. When it's dry, I'll sand it.

The wing is a mess. I'm trying to open it up to examine the damage. One I get it sorted out, I'll slowly start re-gluing and re-enforcing. The landing gear is a mess, and it won't come out. I'll keep trying.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: wollins on September 01, 2015, 09:12:47 PM
Keep at it Mike, that model is worth it.

Colin
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on September 01, 2015, 09:17:50 PM
It's a beautiful plane Michael. You can do it. Like Colin said, it's worth it.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 03, 2015, 08:01:56 PM
I was going to fly with Glenn this evening, but he cancelled due to the humidity, and would work on his Lysander instead.

So I decided to continue on my DC3.

The nose has been sanded, filled, re-sanded, and now I've started applying fiberglass.

I have finally got the damaged retracts out, cut away much of the center sheeting, and cut damaged scrap enough that the wing will be able to be braced and glued back in shape. I'll have to buy more glue before I can continue, but I'm confident enough now to order new retracts and 3-blade props.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on September 03, 2015, 08:32:28 PM
Congratulations Michael. Inspiration to us all.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on September 03, 2015, 09:36:46 PM
Speedy is at it again.


Great looking work Michael.


Keep at it, it will fly much better when it's finished.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Gregor77 on September 06, 2015, 06:43:44 AM
Looking good. Keep at it!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 07, 2015, 02:19:01 PM
Fuselage ready for painting.

Wing dihedral reset.

Wing substructure repaired, strengthened and bolstered.

Retracts and new props ordered; approx. $300.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 07, 2015, 03:25:56 PM
A bit more progress.

I can't do much more on the wing until I install the new retracts, which arrive next weekend.

Maybe I'll paint the fuselage this week.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 07, 2015, 05:00:02 PM
Top of the wing.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Papa on September 07, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Boy even for you that is fast.


You must be enjoying it.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 11, 2015, 07:14:13 PM
Fuselage done. Not as nice as when new, but it'll look just fine when flying in the air.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: sihinch on September 11, 2015, 07:35:58 PM
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 12, 2015, 05:16:18 PM
Retracts purchased and installation in progress.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: wollins on September 12, 2015, 08:40:35 PM
Where are those for sale Mike?

Colin
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 13, 2015, 07:44:05 AM
They are made by Robart, and I had A+Js order them for me.

http://robart.com/products/top-flite-dc-3-pneumatic-main-retracts

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: wollins on September 13, 2015, 10:56:06 AM
Thanks Mike ...  Awesome repair by the way.

Colin
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Frank v B on September 16, 2015, 10:02:23 PM
Great test flight this evening Michael.  I am sure it will fly better with two props!


Two things are for sure: we both would have panicked if we knew one prop was missing; and, 2) We would have been in significant trouble if you would have deployed flaps.


Sure a case of "ignorance is bliss"



Frank


ps: for those of you who did not see it, there was a noise at about 25' altitude after take-off and something flew off.  We all thought it was a hatch or a cowl.  No-one realized the starboard prop was missing until just before touchdown.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: wollins on September 17, 2015, 08:48:32 AM
Hmmm ... so it flew on one motor without noticeably affecting the flight characteristics?

Colin
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 17, 2015, 02:07:41 PM
I'm waiting for Jack to issue a 'Tickler'.


After that, I'll post about the flight.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 17, 2015, 05:56:05 PM
As Frank mentioned, I re-maidened my DC3, after extensive repairs, which included putting on new propellers.

Frank, Glenn and Greg C all stood by to help me in case I needed help.

The plane taxied well, but upon increased throttle, the model veered right. (see photo below). I wasn't sure what happened but I corrected the direction and took off. After only a few seconds it sounded like something broke loose and we saw something fall. We thought it might be a battery hatch or a damaged nacelle cowl; we weren't sure. 

Frank immediately suggested landing, but the plane was actually flying nicely so I decided to keep flying. It did need some trim here and there, and it did seem a little slower than I remembered, but it was really flying well!

I kept flying and even did a couple lower passes, where it became evident that nothing from the structure of the plane was missing.

After a few more circuits, I prepared to land. As the plane slowed it was apparent that a propeller was missing!

Frank is right that I might have been more nervous and not handled it well had I been aware, but as it is, the model is well engineered, and flies quite well on one motor.

The repair is minor, and I will use a bit of 'locktite' on the prop adapter.

I'm really happy that the plane is now flyable, and I look forward to another season of enjoyment with it.

The photo (from after the flight) below shows a prop missing on one side, and the hole it made in the fuselage.
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: wollins on September 17, 2015, 06:21:31 PM
That's amazing that it would fly so well on one prop (when it was designed for two) that you didn't even really notice it! Congrats!

Colin
Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 17, 2015, 06:34:26 PM
The model was designed to fly safely with glow (internal combustion) engines, which fail much more often than electric motors.

To deal with this situation, the model is designed with considerable outward thrust on both motors, which helps a lot in this type of situation.

Title: Re: Top Flite DC3 82.5" wingspan
Post by: Michael on September 19, 2015, 08:19:26 AM
Repair from the lost prop is almost done.

In the photo you can see where the hole was carefully filled with balsa, which was then sanded smooth, filled with filler and sanded, and then given one layer of fiberglass with water-based poly-urethane.

I'll paint it when it dries.