It's winter time again, I hope everyone already had a good flying season and wishing you a happy coming holiday, not too early to say Merry Christmas.
This year I flew more at Rogo and very happy with two of my favour planes; a T-45 and a D.H. Vampire, two EPO Jets from HobbyKing.
I picked up both late last year, I maiden my Vampire in August 2014 with some help from Ken Ross.
My first flight went well until I stalled the plane on a low turn. Get fixed and my second flight went well and landed safely on the run way.
My third flight ends up stalling the plane again on another turn; my bad habit I just like to fly slow, so I decided to threat on the throttle cure. (make a negative exponential on throttle cure) Since then, every flight went well and I began falling in love with this EDF jet. I try flying it every time at Rogo.
This Vampire listed at US $115, I flew it with all stock gears, only added a single rudder with a 4.5 gram tiny servo hidden inside the end of the boom. Mind you that this plane do not need a rudder to fly well.
The stock motor and EDF consume 620 watts on a 2800mA, 4 cells (30C) also from HK, generating 750 grams of thrust. The plane weight over 1200 grams with battery, so vertical is out of touch but I could have a lot of reasonable climbing and perform inverted loop. I like to climbing up then do an inverted loop to back down, speed it up for a low pass.
As other owner's comments, this Vampire is a floater, it will glides for a long path with no throttle. It has no bad behavior at high or low speed (a big flying window). If you like speed or higher roll rate, used a 5 cells, the stock ESC/motor will take it for a short period of time. It is a good candidate as the first EDF jet and could be a performer for advance pilots.
In September I saw a wonderful formation flying (believe is two Extra 300 or like) at the KW Flying Dutchmen show and I fell in love with the excitement and challenge. Since then I have a dream to fly formation at Rogo field with other flyers.
I realized that many of you might had flew in formation with a warbird, my thought is an EPO might be more durable, lower cost and easier to fly then a warbird. I believe this Vampire and the T-45 is two EPO that will look good and fly well in formation. Image five jets flying by in a V formation, doing loops and low pass...
I invite you to form a formation flying team (informal) to try out this challenge in the coming 2016 flying season.
If you are interested about this EPO Vampire/T-45 or the challenge of formation flying, here are the links you could check on;
Vampire links;
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__20580__Durafly_D_H_100_Vampire_Mk6_EDF_Jet_w_retracts_1100mm_PNF_.html
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1580010
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1702263
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1489353
T-45 link;
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14878__BAE_Hawk_Red_Arrow_70mm_EDF_Jet_kit_White_EPO_.html?strSearch=BAE
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1903583
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1867824
Formation flying links;
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1479180
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1439333
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1051844
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2152687
Im adding couple photos of my T-45 and the Vampire. First one is a real T-45 on sky.
I would be interested trying to do jet formation flying with you this coming season.
I have had (operative word :-X) a T-45 which I enjoyed flying. I have a new T-45 kit to put together over the winter. I am installing a more powerful EDF in it than the original one and am using 4 cells instead of 3.
I fly with the morning crew, where a few of us fly formation (generally flying in the same direction at the same time with the odd coordinated loop and turn put in for good measure) with WWII war birds of various types. Success is measured by returning to the runway flying your own plane.
Look forward to seeing you at the field and giving it a try.
I love trying to fly formation. Great suggestion and post Philip. Count
me in for informal practice.
Count me in for any type of formation flying:
Jets, warbirds, gliders, Cubs, EF1, etc.
Bruce failed to mention that both he and I while flying our Mustangs in formation crashed and wrote them both off. I was flying Bruce's for some time before someone told me mine had crashed. I'm not sure whose plane he was flying later when his went into the ground. We are still flying our P47's in formation but have decided it is safer (not always easy, you need to concentrate) to fly our own planes.
Well, I flew today, jets in formation, with Philip, and it was great. We took off (Philip first quickly followed by me) and we flew about a dozen or so nice circuits, probably within 30 or 40 feet of each other the whole time.
It was fun! ;D
Thanks Michael for flying with me in formation this afternoon. It was fun as last time and wasn't easy even I'm the leading one. My next practice would be keep flying the same circuit in a same speed and altitude. I'm going to add a mix on aileron with some +elevator to my T-45.
I'm very glad learning that many one like or already flying in formation, I do look forward to practice formation flying with anyone.
Bruce which T-45 you are building now? IMO 3 cells would be on the weak side unless it use > 4000Kv motor. HK has a 64mm alloy EDF, 750w produce 1.2kg thrust on 4 cells.
This winder I'm rebuilding a HK T-45 Goshawk 64mm frame given to me, will put in a 70mm, 900W, 1.2kg thrust EDF and retracts, glass fiber cloth on wings.
If weather is good again tomorrow, I will be flying in the morning till early afternoon. :)
This is the EDF I have for installing in my T45. I am Looking forward to flying with you....
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F46319%5F%5FAlloy%5FDPS%5F64mm%5F10%5Fblade%5FElectric%5FDucted%5FFan%5FAssembley%5F3300Kv%5FUS%5FWarehouse%5F.html
Hey Philip,
Count me as a subscriber to your dream!
I've been hovering over the buy button on the HK Vampire too long and your invite is the little push I need...I'll order one when I'm finished writing this.
In the meantime, I'll bring something that'll fit with your T-45 and/or Vampire so I can try formating..
Dunno if we'll ever create a mini Snowbirds team but sure will be fun trying!
Looking forward to it!
Bruce, that is a powerful one, might go vertical. 10 blades will sound like a real jet too. Looking forward to see how good it performs. I guess you are building the HK 64mm Goshawk?
Bill you will not regret for getting this Vampire, IMO this is one EDF that most pilots will enjoy flying. I'm getting my second one for the coming seasons. Before you take it to the air, make sure the CG is correct, it will takes a bigger battery than recommended, strengthen the two booms by adding fiber strips 1x3mm or 1x5mm, make a 55mm air tube if you want a bit faster. Please check out the RCgroups.com, there are many posts about this old model. Price gone up! $119.99 now.
In search for more formation flying video, here is a good one. Enjoy :)
https://youtu.be/UBh2u9vjQug (https://youtu.be/UBh2u9vjQug)
How about this one if last video doesn't impress you yet. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGvPilyNJo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGvPilyNJo)
Oscar, You will love this one. ;D
here the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiqWvnXjy74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiqWvnXjy74)
For the glider lovers, you are not missing out. To my perspective, this is a very close formation RC flying than all I have seen, very skillful and challenging.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZtnh3NKPPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZtnh3NKPPY)
Nice video.
thanks for sharing
Philip - I caved in. I bought a Vampire! It's all your fault.
Quote from: sihinch on February 04, 2016, 08:15:14 PM
Philip - I caved in. I bought a Vampire! It's all your fault.
Like you needed an excuse...
What can I say, I thought I'd earned it after a good visit today! At least that's what I'm telling myself.
re:"At least that's what I'm telling myself."
That means squat. What are you telling Leslie? That's all that matters. :D
Frank
ps: I'll back you up once we get our stories straight. ;D
It's my self birthday present! If there is such a thing.
Simon, if you don't like your birthday present any more, I take it from your hangar. ;D
For who are brave enough to venture this type of after burner, it is way too cool and dangerous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKuq8T7KMa0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKuq8T7KMa0)
This is for your entertainment purpose only, if you burn your garage or lose you wing as you get caught flying this at Rogo, please don't blame me, ;D you are warned.
If the gas burner is breaking all safty codes :-X, how about this $15 LED afterburner from HK. Not bad. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lORbHwK7kFk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lORbHwK7kFk)
Not bad, but the Vampire didn't have an afterburner!
For $14.34 extra you could get this LED afterburner from HobbyKing.
Are you getting the RTF vampire come with retracts and EDF/motor or the ARF vampire that put in your own motor?
I m getting my second vampire, this one would install with a 10 blades EDF, hoping to go vertical.
If you run the stock ESC with 5 cells, reposition the ESC to stand vertical at the middle of the cheat holes to obtains maximum cooling. It works for me.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__41696__Dr_MadThrust_Three_Color_LED_Afterburner_system_70mm_EDF.html?strSearch=after%20burner (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__41696__Dr_MadThrust_Three_Color_LED_Afterburner_system_70mm_EDF.html?strSearch=after%20burner)
No, sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. The real vampire had no afterburner so I wouldn't (and people shouldn't!!!) ever add one to the model!
I got the PnP version and will fly it stock for a while. I put a new 10 blade fan in my last one and didn't like the current draw and I think removing the stock fan messed with the thrust angle. So I'm not going to mess with this one yet.
But I do have an afterburner system ready to fit to something!
Are afterburners legal in EF1? Might come in useful for that last hot lap to the finish line!
My second Vampire from HobbyKing arrived, this is a kit intend to put in a 1300W EDF, retracts and go vertical.
For whom might already have a vampire would you fly with me this season?
Here is an Vampire video back in the old days, year 1964.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MwjzuXvfyrU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MwjzuXvfyrU)
If you are considering getting one, here is the 666 pages long-live thread in rcgoups.com since 2011.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1489353
I have one to build Philip and would love to fly with you!
Not sure I'll keep up with your 1200watts though.
No worry, I'm using my stock vampire for formation flying and practice. The new one would only fly in occasion.
In fact my dream of formation flying would be flying slow in patterns, not racing. It has to be "not fast' as it should allow time for join in, catch up and mostly correction.
I consider this video more a flying race than formation.
https://youtu.be/cmk4XtFPPMw (https://youtu.be/cmk4XtFPPMw)
There was a video I seen before, two fiber glass vampire flying in formation with smoke! But I just can't locate it anymore.
How about this one, two Pitts flying together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umgVFDr8IhI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umgVFDr8IhI)
It's not a true formation. Felix and I decided to try flying in the same pattern (trying to follow the plane in front of you). Wind was about 14km/h. It's a lot harder than we thought. But, we agree, it's lots of laugh and fun (that's what TEMAC is about - to have FUN!!!).
If anyone who also have the Icon, let's come out and fly together. (Imagine lots of them flying together).
Note: No FPV. Just camera attached to the Icon Canopy.
https://youtu.be/MaUVttQYlkA
Absolutely classic bit of disco, Oscar!
I'll fly whatever you want with you if I get a disco soundtrack!!!
I only fly formation to the Bee Gee's ;D
I must admit, watching these video's is making me think how the process could be improved to make for some good formation flying. I'm thinking this:
Get identical planes, power systems, and weights.
Practice flying the at same speed as first priority. Telemetry would make this even better.
Pick a dead calm day for the best chance at a stable and predictable flight.
Forget about one plane chasing another for the entire circuit. Subtle variation in turns will screw up the flight differential.
Instead, have a goal of crossing a certain point on the field (perhaps the north edge of cut grass, in this case), at the same time, or very close.
Practice the timing to cross without diving or slowing.
Choose who will fly past where (near, far, middle) and determine an approximate height.
Focus on really nice formation for the fly past only, as that is where it really counts.
After getting the one portion of the flight matched up, the rest of the circuit will probably come together nicely too, although perhaps a little less tight than the fly past, at stage centre. I think it will naturally improve because of the need to cross the certain point at the right time.
Then add another plane ;D
I have no idea if this will help, or work. Just some thoughts I had that I would try if I was flying formation.
Another approach that works... kinda... if to just toss a whole bunch of planes in the air at the same time and fly circuits. Some are bound to fly in formation ;D
One of the best techniques I've seen was shown to me by André W.
It is simple but very effective.
Once a group of planes is flying, the leader counts "1-2-3-turn!" and everyone make the turn at the same time. It really works well.
The other technique I saw was from Ron and Dave from Pinnacle. One person flies his plane absolutely level, straight, constant speed and predictable, while the other does mild aerobatics around the first plane. Especially if the planes are similar in colour, size and shape, it really looks like both planes are doing the aerobatics.
I have this write up for sometimes, since many of you are interested in flying formation, I like to post it to generate more ideas and get more action soon. I have to say that I'm only an amateur in flying; my idea of this write up is use it as a starting point, please feel free for correction/changes. I guess two heads are better than one. (usually)
Before we could achieve formation with patterns, we have to master some basic techniques together.
I like what Robert has put up, it summarizes what have to do first.
QuoteGet identical planes, power systems, and weights.
Practice flying the at same speed as first priority. Telemetry would make this even better.
Pick a dead calm day for the best chance at a stable and predictable flight.
Forget about one plane chasing another for the entire circuit. Subtle variation in turns will screw up the flight differential.
Instead, have a goal of crossing a certain point on the field (perhaps the north edge of cut grass, in this case), at the same time, or very close.
Practice the timing to cross without diving or slowing.
Choose who will fly past where (near, far, middle) and determine an approximate height.
Focus on really nice formation for the fly past only, as that is where it really counts.
Similar to what Michael described the simple count "1-2-3 turn!", my idea is as follow:
Instructions of each ACTION (or pattern) are given ahead before a countdown; the purpose of countdown is to get each pilot ready and synchronize, do not execute the action until the ACTION word is call out at the end of countdown.
Turn together in 3-2-1 TURN (together)
Roll together in 3-2-1 ROLL
Loop together in 3-2-1 LOOP
Invert together in 3-2-1 INVERT
Pull up (together) in 3-2-1 PULL UP
Split in 3-2-1 SPIT
Please throw in your idea.
;)
The morning crew does formation flying on a regular basis with their P51D Mustangs too. Bruce is the lead pilot by default (because he has the loudest voice? :D). Instead of saying 1-2-3... Bruce simply yells out "NOW!" when executing a loop. Sorry, no videos since my Mustang is not equipped with a camera!
Bruce used to fly formation with the other guys and their P51 Mustangs until a midair collision, where Bruce decided to fly the wrong plane out of the mess in the sky. I could have sworn I was flying my plane, right to the point were I landed it. Then I noticed it wasn't my plane, but I was proud of the landing anyhow. Needless to say I have the wing left and am building a new fuselage to carry on.
We also fly formation with our other Warbirds.
Formation flying is really fun.
I couldn't resist! I pulled the stock fan out of the Vampire and installed a changesun 10 blade plus 2000kV motor for 6S! I wanted 1200watts like Philip!
To add to Roberts list:
Plan with the other pilot what you are trying to accomplish on the flight.
Stand near enough that one pilot (leader?) can communicate his intentions.
Debrief with your wingman afterwards and plan what might work better.
Re: plan what might work better.....
"Fly closer!"
Check this out.
Just love it and keep me going.
Guess we could try harder in 2017.
https://youtu.be/eAjGEj4FR6w (https://youtu.be/eAjGEj4FR6w)
and this one too. (HD 1080P)
https://youtu.be/2H9G8BvOx4g (https://youtu.be/2H9G8BvOx4g)
https://youtu.be/hj7vU7QurHU (https://youtu.be/hj7vU7QurHU)