Bought this plane from Geoff yesterday and am just sizing up the project.
Spent about an hour deciding how to tackle it.
Keep in mind:
1) gas to electric conversions tend to come out tail heavy
2) there needs to be at least a hatch to plug in the battery connectors to go flying
3) on larger planes I use a separate RX battery (4.8 volt nicads) to power the receiver and servos for safety in case the ESC fries in the air.
4) the prop on an electric plane is larger than the gas equivalent. Ground clearance needs to be higher.
Decisions:
- am keeping the plane in the current covering, converting it and flying it. If it flies nicely....and it should.... I will re-cover it next winter.
- am going with a Turnigy G46- because it is heavier than the E-Flite Power 46. Possibly 4 cells (790 watts) or maybe 5 cells (1000 watts). (Photo 4521)
- the servos are going to move forward. They need to be standard size because the hinging binds a lot. This helps move the CG forward. (Photo 4517)
- the hinging is bad so the pushrods need to be changed for both the elevator and rudder. (Photo 4520)
Work done:
- drilled a stop-hole* at the end of the split in the canopy (photo 4516).
- removed the pushrods so I can extend them to move the servos forward.
- the current nose cannot house the motor. The bell hits the cheeks. (photo 4518, 4522)
- Used a Dremel with a sanding drum (Photo 4525) to thin the balsa in the nose to see if the motor can fit. Yes it does. (photo 4526)
This conversion will work fine.
Frank
* stop-hole- used to stop cracks from getting bigger as used in the aircraft industry when cracks appear in aluminium skin.
Excerpt from an article
"Small cracks are a common problem on sheet metal airplanes. Created by vibration, you'll often find them developing on areas like the engine cowling. The common fix is to "stop drill" the crack with a small diameter drill bit. In other words, you drill a small hole at each end of the crack in the hope of stopping its growth. This fix is not a repair."
This is an awesome play-by-play Frank. School is in session!!!!
Thanks Geoff. School continues........
Installing the motor
1) make a balsa spacer to slip between the back of the spinner and the nose ring on the fuse. I used 3/32 balsa. I do not like close tolerances on spinning things like props. Photo 4530.
2) Mark the back of the motor X mount on the balsa nose and connect the dots. Photo 31
3) take a piece of aluminum foil and squeeze it into the corners to make a rough shape. Photo 33
4) transfer the aluminum outline to a piece of balsa. I used 3/32". Photo 34
5) when happy with the shape, transfer it to the plywood firewall material and trial fit. Make a registration mark on the plywood and the balsa nose of the plane (pen). Photo 35
6) drill out the old firewall for wires and cooling air. It also allows the battery to move farther forward if there are balance issues. Photo 37
7) apply a few spots of 5 minute epoxy to the firewall, screw the motor in place, slip the balsa spacer between the back of the spinner and the nose of the airplane and let it cure vertically. The new firewall actually floats in place so the thrust line can be perfect with the nose ring. Let cure. Photo 38.
Letting the epoxy cure over dinner.
Frank
Clever.
Looks great. If I recall correctly, a Cloud Dancer was one of the original electric conversion that
@piker did back in the 90s.
Ben, I believe both Piker and Marc Thomson built one each.
I replaced both pushrods to extend them to the new servo location (5" ahead of the old servo placing). As well, cut the fuse side so the rudder servo pushrod exited the fuse about 3" ahead of the old position. The old angle was impossible.
Three photos
49 - motor permanently installed.
50 - servos installed. The new mounts are 5" ahead of the original position.
53- the new rudder pushrod exit. Note the old exit hole for the rudder pushrod and how impossible the angle was to the rudder horn
The decision now is that I will test fly it as soon as possible. If it flies fine, I will consider re-building it to make it a keeper. The re-build will include enclosing the motor, fixing the broken rear stringers, and improving the hinging on both the rudder and elevator. Both surfaces are tough to move.
First flight will be on 5S. Why not! 8)
Frank
Ben,
Just found a photo of Marc Thomson's Cloud Dancer on the EMFSO website.
Frank
Ready to fly.
- Installed the radio, Esc and prop (12.5 x 6)
- programmed the radio
- tested the motor. It runs the right way (...now).
Frank
Man that plane looks so good.
Great job Frank
Quote from: Frank v B on November 26, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Ben,
Just found a photo of Marc Thomson's Cloud Dancer on the EMFSO website.
Frank
I can't believe that website I made back in 2001 is still online. At this point I think it's a historical monument that isn't allowed to be renovated unless it's being restored to its original glory.
Looks great!
Looks great Frank, let me know how she flys. I have a new one that's been built however not covered as yet.
OOOOHHHH! you have a new uncovered one. I may have to liberate that from your hangar as a back-up. :D
Frank
Fast forward a few months. Just finished the details for a possible maiden this Friday.
Finished the following:
- power system all set up: Turnigy .46 550 kv, 12.5" x 6" Graupner* prop, 5 cells 3300 mah (for balance reasons), E-Flite 60 amp ESC. The power set-up is about 750 watts.
- basic 4 channels. The wigglers wiggle the right way. Conservative throws. Just want to take off and land safely.
- balance is nose down on the spar. Prefer a nose-heavy plane for a maiden and then fine-tune it later.
Frank
* love Graupner props for electrics. They are strong, more flexible than APC, are not as sharp (fingers, runway) and have a wider blade area. They are harder to break than APC, Windsor or Master Airscrew.
Maidened the Cloud Dancer today. The power was fine, the take-off was fine but it did not feel right and it missed one input so I brought it in. Landed fine.
I will check the aileron servos, connections and aileron hinges. Something was off.
It will fly fine.
frank
Here was the problem.
The single old standard size servo was trying to move a single continuous piece of piano wire connecting the two ailerons. The problem: a rotating servo needs to be able to move sideways and forward and aft as well.
Solution- cut the continuos aileron linkage and install two servos. Problem solved.
First photo: The original servo. Connected to one piece of piano wire.
Second photo- two servo solution.
The old system bound so badly that the servo stalled at about 30% deflection. There is now full deflection.
Ready to get back in the air.
Frank
Sorry guys- this plane is no more.
I flew it yesterday and it did not feel right. It was skittish in the turn- It felt like a rear wheel drive car racing on ice with studs on the front wheels and slicks on the back. It was not laterally stable. It felt like the tail was trying to get in front of the nose at every turn.
The power was fine and the dual servos sure fixed the aileron problem.
I was going to strip the covering in the winter and re-cover it if it flew fine. It did not. As well, the plane was a slimer so all the balsa was oil soaked. Have you ever tried covering a plane over oil-soaked balsa? Impossible.
When I started taking the wing apart I was glad I did not go further. The front half of the wing root started to split apart at the bottom. The reason- nothing was continuous or re-inforced. The wing halves were butt-glued together without any fibreglass. Just balsa. No plywood anywhere. This is 3 out of 3 slimer conversions of finished planes that had butt-glued balsa joints at the wing root. One broke in flight (Stinson Voyager), one was caught in time and re-inforced (Rearwin Speedster) and this one would have broken in half during the next flight.
Disaster avoided.
May this Cloud Dancer rest in peace. It is in the front left in the photo of the planes I flew yesterday.
Frank
ps: I bought it for $20.00, did not buy a single thing for it (had the motor and electronics), had 4 flights on it and it kept me busy during Covid. Good deal!
"Sorry guys- this plane is no more."
We are sorry to hear about your loss.
A private ceremony attended by
@Frank v B (alone) was held over the trash can.
It shall be remembered fondly as a gas-guzzler that swam in oil.
The donor card was signed, and many parts will allow other projects to flourish.
When things do not feel right, euthanasia is sometimes the best answer
May this Cloud Dancer rest in
peace pieces...
Guy
ps: "Have you ever tried covering a plane over oil-soaked balsa?". Yes, and I used brake cleaner, it removed most/all of the oil and I was able to recover that plane.