Yes folk, I'm sorry! I'm another TEMAC member building a boat!
A few years ago we went to a cottage and I bought a cheap 2S speed boat. I had way more fun with it than I ever imagined. So given I've run out of plane storage (especially after building all these novelty flying machines like Endeavour, Supermon and the Enterprise!) I decided to try a boat.
Frank kindly sold me a Dumas PT109 kit that someone had already started. So here goes my learning curve....
So here is the hull, as received. First off I needed to try and remove the old epoxy that the previous builder had added. So lots of sanding.
And then I used the thinned epoxy trick to waterproof the inside of the hulll.
Nice!
Guy
I've built a few balsa planes so I thought, how hard can a boat be? Well, lots of the skills and techniques are the same, but so much is different. Which is why I'm so glad Frank has been there to help...
So, after having sanded and waterproofed this gorgeous, wooden hull, Frank says you have to drill holes in it!
Apparently for a boat, you align the drivetrain based on the rudder position. So I drilled the hole for the rudder tube and stuffing box as per the plan. Now my boat has holes in it.
What's a stuffing box? This is allegedly the technical term for the tube that sticks out the bottom of the boat for the prop shaft to go through!
Simon,
Be prepared to be humbled on boating terms!!
I started seriously racing sailboats when I was 13 years old* and know every part, name and nickname of a boat. There are probably 300 of them. We carried 16 sails, each with a name and many parts (clew, head, leech, luff). There were 27 adjustments (yes I counted them) we used to change the shape of the mainsail only...each with a name.
Then Paul Gray showed me the seamen's handbook of the British Navy before and during WW2. It was his grandfather's book. The 300 parts I knew represented probably only 5% of the terms in the book. Yes I was humbled. "Pass me that thing" was not in there. ;)
Frank
* raced at the national and international level in high school and University.
I had loads of questions for Frank about how to mount the motor. And although it makes sense now, it didn't a few weeks ago.
Frank said, as part of the power train, you mount the motor last! So apparently, to get effective rudder control you need to have the prop close to the rudder. And to make the rudder effective at low speeds it needs to be a balanced rudder. What's that, you ask? It's having a bit of the rudder ahead of the pivot point.
So in order to mount the motor, I need the prop on the prop shaft and the rudder positioned (not mounted yet.)
Frank very kindly donated a prop and rudder to me (he's really a nice Guy) but I had to work out how to attach the prop to the prop shaft (without any dogs! Yes that's a boating term!) And I had to build the rudder which involved soldering!
This is what I achieved - a balance rudder and a mounted prop on the 4mm shaft.
OK, so this is where Frank & I agreed there were 2 alternate approaches! Frank suggested to mount the stuffing box and motor and then do the fiberglassing but my hull doesn't really have a keel. So if I wanted to glass the hull with 1 piece of cloth, I decided it would be easier to glass first and then mount the stuffing box.
We agreed that neither approach was wrong and it was just whatever I was more comfortable doing. So I did mount the prop on the shaft and get a rough position for the stuffing box, but decided I would glass.
I used the 50:50 mix of epoxy to alcohol, as per the video mentioned in other buid threads. I was using a 1oz-ish cloth and 3 coats of epoxy.
For the first 2 coats I used deluxe materials 60 minute epoxy and I wasn't really happy with the finish. It was kind of gloopy in places and stayed tacky for a long time. For the last coat I used Bob Smith industries 20 minute epoxy and the finish was amazing. Sanding with 100 grit sandpaper in between each coat.
My hull is now ready for the drive train and steering!
Now that the hull is glassed and sanded, I can add the rudder block.
This is literally a block of wood that supports the brass tube that houses the rudder shaft.
Frank suggested that I deviate from plan and make the block touch the rear of the boat (transom) for extra support.
When mounting the rudder tube I copied Frank and had it 1/8" proud of the bottom of the hull to give the rudder clearance.
Tonight I mounted the stuffing box. Again, not sure if this is how Frank would do it, but it's how I'm doing it.
I reckoned that, in order to get the straightest run to the motor, I want the stuffing box and prop shaft fixed in position. That way I can mount the motor perfectly inline with the prop shaft without things wiggling!
So I was working to get the shallowest angle on the prop shaft and the prop clear of the hull but close to the rudder.
I used a foam support and some tape to hold it in place while I tacked it in position with some 5 minute epoxy. Then I used Frank's magic putty!
Admiral Hinchcliffe,
You are doing well. A neat trick to align the motor and prop shaft:
- figure out where the motor will be (fore and aft) for the coupling you have and pencil-mark the motor mount.
- cut a piece of brass tubing the diameter of the prop shaft and the motor's drive shaft. Make it long enough so the motor can fit on the motor's fore/aft pencil mark.
- mount the motor with this brass tube instead of the coupling and it will solidly align the motor with the shaft.
- secure the motor.
It works like a charm.
Frank
That's a great tip Frank, thank you! I'll be doing that for sure.
So this is Frank's magic putty! Now I've got some I'm gonna use it for everything!
It's an epoxy putty I think with the consistency of old chewing gum. You mix it together (with gloves on) and then smoosh it on. It sets in about 10 mins but can be sculpted with a sharp knife after 5 mins and then sanded once hard.
I used it to set the stuffing box in place and then, to be cautious, added another coat of thinned epoxy to ensure it was waterproof.
Only thing I need to do with the stuffing box now is add the strut (at the end, near the prop.)
Now that my drive shaft was fixed in place I could work on aligning and mounting the motor.
I'm using a brushed, geared motor that was kindly donated to the project by Frank. Because of the angle of my prop shaft my motor is going in upside down!
I didn't have any brass tubing to fit the prop shaft so I used a piece of carbon tube, that is the same length as my universal coupling. This allows me to get my motor alignment virtually exact.
I fashioned a motor mount together from some hard balsa square stock and some ply support plates. Once in place I've reinforced it with the magic putty and will also add some more struts and braces later.
But I have a working propulsion system!
So it's been a while...I had to make a trip to the UK but the time away gave me new enthusiasm for this build.
Today I built a custom foam stand since the prop and rudder kept getting dinged. And once it was elevated I started work on the electrical connections.
So now I have the ESC hooked up, the motor mount has been reinforced, the prop strut is in place and I also shaped the rudder a bit. The rudder isn't scale but I think it looks a bit nicer and more nautical now.
Later on this afternoon I might try to get the servo installed.
Wow! This boat is something else. I'm hoping you can all forgive the nautical nature of this thread from now on because it's gonna get a whole lot more relevant to anyone that's built a scale model.
So the servo is in and I've tested the electronics with the ESC, so the hull is essentially done.
Unfortunately I'm missing the die cut parts for the cabin and pilot house. I was going to scratch build but Dumas sell the spare parts! It's 3 sheets of die cut wood for $5 each. As far as I'm concerned that's well worth it.
While I'm waiting for the parts for the main structure I've started to build the scale accessories - I need to build torpedoes, guns, depth charges etc.
Anyway, I'm learning loads! The kit comes with wooden dowels for the torpedoes and you need to add all the details. Straps, supports, end caps, mounting flanges. None of these parts (except the end caps) come with the kit. So you build them from styrene sheet and vinyl tape!
At the outset, I wanted a military looking boat that was semi scale but you get sucked in. "Oh I'll just add that detail" and "if I've done that I might as well add this bit." I guess this is what it means to build a scale model, whether plane or boat. And I now realize I've never done this before!
I'm not building a competition scale model here but I will invest some time to make the major parts somewhat detailed. So far I've spent 6hrs on the torpedoes and have finished one and nearly completed a second. I need 4!
Looks scale to me!!
BTW, is your motor water cooled?
Guy
Hopefully not! ;D
The white straps are cable ties holding it to the mount.
Well, I'm not entirely sure what I did wrong but since having the problem, my research indicates it could be one of several things!
I wanted to see what the torpedoes would look like with some paint on. So I went to get some Painters Touch grey primer and tested one. Now, I'd sealed the wood and used Eze-cote (rather than sanding sealer) and the strapping I added to the torpedoes was smooth vinyl tape. Also, when I sprayed the primer, I did it outside to avoid the nasty smells and the temp was only 6C, even though I brought the painted torpedo straight in to the basement once I'd finished spraying.
My problem is that my primer is still tacky, 2 days after spraying. My research says it could be the fact that I sprayed a smooth surface, sprayed in cold damp air and sprayed over the eze-cote. I've added some gentle heat with a heat gun and now left it on the radiator.
I'm not in a rush so can leave it to see if it cures but wondered if anyone has any other tips or insights?
I heard putting talcum powder helps.
I tried it once and got really nice smelling boat hull.
Guy
I've had some success with the primer this week by putting parts in direct sunlight. I still don't like the primer and wished I'd not used it but I think I'll get away with it.
On the subject of pain, I've done load of research in to who makes an accurate, pre 1944 Haze Grey 5H paint! Seems like no-one can really agree on the correct colour but I came across the 1929 Munsell colour code for it and had a tester made up, at Home Depot. Score!
And it's been a torpedo factory, other than that! Carving little compressed air chambers, building mounting brackets, adding straps and cutting deck pads! The good news is that all the torpedoes are finished now, so tomorrow it's on to the dinghy and smoke generator!
I spoke too soon! I decided to do a little extra detailing! Building this is like building an Airfix kit except you need to make all the parts!
So yesterday I mounted some of the torpedo launch pads and added the rails and winding gear. In the kit these are cast metal parts but I didn't have those so made them! I used some styrene rod for the rails and whittled some wooden dowel for the winding spigot.
Nice!!
F.
Lots of progress with the deck items. I've made the smoke generator, the depth charge rack and the life raft. Every one of these items needed shaping from wood, building components from styrene and assembling.
When I was a kid I used to make Airfix kits. I was never really any good at it and used to brush paint everything. A few years ago I bought myself an airbrush, like the pros! After watching lots of YouTube videos I've given "pre-shading" a try, where you spray details in a dark colour (I chose black)before spraying the final colour.
In the photos you can see a finished torpedo with the final pre-shading effect and all the other items with the primer and pre-shade sprayed.
Great work on the torpedoes.
Mine is ready for Sea Trials.
Super nice Guy! Hope we can patrol together!
A little "before and after" or "spot the difference."
I've not made any progress on the RC PT boat because I'm waiting for the wooden replacement parts to arrive for the cabin etc.
But one of the things I got in the habit of, when doing a scratch built model, was to build a plastic model kit of the subject. I've done the same with PT109 to help me add some of the details to the larger areas of the deck.
Unfortunately the model I bought was a cheap one and it's pretty crap! The details are poor and the actual moulding is not of a good quality with lots of flash. But it will help and if nothing else, I can practice my airbrushing before I make other model kits.
But the parts for the RC model should arrive this week! I'd like to get it finished before May.
MMMMMM. Building a model to build a model!!
That's a twofer.
There appears to be a fine line between an obsession and an addiction.
Just don't stop now. 8)
Frank
Finally, some progress! After a month in the UK, I've come back at the PT boat with some renewed energy.
I was never happy with the hull primer so I sanded it off and re-sprayed it. That's good now. 👍🏻
Then, after a great discussion with Frank, Michael and David at flight training night, last week (see, you get building tips too!) I've masked the waterline.
It was a real mental block for me - how do you get a straight line on a curved surface? Anyway, as you can see, I went with the laser line route. I'm very happy with it! Hopefully painting tonight....
Looks great!
I wonder how well it will fly... ;D
Probably not that well!
A little painting this evening.
Yes!!!! I've just completed the task that was my biggest mental block on this build. I've added the spray rail.
I was challenged by the complex curve of the hull and the need for symmetry. Having painted the waterline (my other mental block) I had a reference point.
I used 1/16 balsa and then gave it a coat of thinned epoxy. Now I can finish the painting on the hull and prepare for a test float.
Ok, on to the next challenge! Adding the gunwales.
These curve with the curve of the bow and are attached to the deck. I was wondering how they would stay attached to the deck while retaining the curve. So I asked Frank how to bend wood....this led me to more research and reading.
So I steamed the wood and have taped it to the outside of the hull, hoping it will retain the curve when dry and the tape is removed.
Steaming the gunwales worked a treat!
I decided to build a boat because they take up less room than an aircraft. It's actually taking more time, too because you have to build all the details.
This morning was spent building hatches and adding them to the deck. Each hatch consists of 2 flat styrene pieces for the door, 4 strips for the hinge and 2 pieces of bent brass for the handles.
So 8 pieces per door have to be cut, shaped and glued. There are 3 of these hatches!
That looks FANTASTIC!! :D
Thank you Guy.
Well, despite a frantic 2 days of working on the boat, I don't think it's going to be ready to test tomorrow. I tried!
I've primed it and done the pre-shading but I really wanted a couple of coats of the top coat on plus time for it to dry well. And then I need to reconnect the drivetrain and set-up the radio.
It will for sure be ready for water testing soon!
No need to rush the finishing touches.
How about bringing it for "show & tell"?
Guy
With each completed milestones comes a new challenge. My latest was how to do the turret rails. The function of these on the real boat are to stop the 2 gunners from shooting each other.
The plans so a very elaborate design built using 1/16 brass rod. There was no way I was going to attempt that given that it's the first time I've ever worked with brass. But I did want to make sure that I had some kind of turret rail.
Anyway, another great success today, I've managed to create two basic turret rails which involved soldering and added a handrail to the side of each turret (Which is scale according to the plan.)
This is enough detail for me on these turret, when they're painted, I think they look great.
Inching closer! More cabin details. I think I could have this finished by the end of the weekend. Maybe....
So much progress on so many fiddly details. All the main superstructure parts are now built and primed.
Tomorrow hopefully pre-shading and attaching to the deck. Maybe even final paint coat?
Looks amazing!!
2 steps forward, 1 step back! :)
Pre-shading before final coat.
Ready for running gear to be reinstalled! :)
There are more details to add (like the radio mast, flag pole and machine guns) but I'm going to sail it now.
Next stop the bath tub!
She floats! :)
Bang on the waterline (almost) :)
When we were recently in Scotland I visited the Scottish Maritime Museum where they had the Denny Tank. The Denny Tank is the world's oldest working model experiment tank. Built on the site of the William Denny shipyard (1844 – 1963) in 1882, it was used to test model hulls and determine with commercially acceptable accuracy the power required to achieve the contract speed.
Well, I didn't have a Denny Tank. I used the Denny tub! ;D
Amazing.
Good work.
Frank
Well, it worked! The actual maiden voyage was about 2 weeks ago now and I couldn't be happier with how it went.
No water in the boat, a great turn of speed and it looks amazing (even if I say so myself!)
And look what arrived this week! Now these will be a bit small. My boat is 1/31 scale and these figures are 1/35 but they should add some realism to it.
Figures added and I think they work?
Yesterday my motor cut out twice while on the lake. So either the new people can't drive the boat or I have an overheating issue. Something to fix...
Thanks Andy for the close up photo.
Uh-oh, it's happening again!
I really like the guys on surfboards (image 3672). Very artsy!
Andy
Little PT is ready for tomorrow!