1/6.78 Scale Hawker Typhoon

[wollins]

As a lot of people know I've been building a Hawker Typhoon and the thread is over on the EMFSO website.  Since no one (including myself) seems to frequent that forum much these days I thought I'd bring it over to "where the action is".  

For those who might be interested in how it started and its progression up to this point you can check it out at http://emfso.org/smf/index.php?topic=2951.0

There's nothing much to report as far as progress is concerned since my last update simply because I've been extrememly busy this year with a two year old, my business and now looking for a new house. In any event, I have been waiting on some final parts to come in before I attempt to at least get this to a flying state to get the maiden out of the way!

As some might recall the original goal was to get it all done by Kingston, then by the TEMAC warbirds day and then the TEMAC funfly!  Needless to say I have not met any of those completion goals and doubt very much that it will get completed this year. HOWEVER I do still have a goal of at least getting it to maiden before the season is done so that I can take my time over the winter to complete it.

So ... stay tuned. 

Colin

P.S. Attached is the plane I'm trying to replicate.

[bfeist]

The Typhoon is one of my favs. Too bad your build thread got left behind as it were. I'm sure you could summarize the key milestones from the other thread and add them here for completeness.

I'm planning on doing the same with my charging station thread.

Ben

[wollins]

Ok here we go again... the Typhoon's back up on the bench. Now I just have to remember where I left off and TRY to get back up to speed. I had a bit of a scare the other day when the EMFSO site was down for awhile and we were all speculating as to whether it was down forever or not.  So ... I've decided to try to take Ben's advice and "paste" all those posts from the original thread to over here just in case that actualy does happen in the future.

Why is it important to me to do this? Well, the primary reason I started it in the first place was to keep ME on track and I was actually shocked to see how much interest it garnered!  Anyway, I find it to be a great reference point since the build has been such a long and complex one (for me anyways) and its good to be able to check back as to how I did this or that. Now after such a long layoff it is proving to be even more valuable!  Anyways ... here goes ...

Colin   

[wollins]

November 18, 2011, 09:11:30 am »     Well, the commitment has been made so there's no turning back now! My 1/6.78 scale Hawker Typhoon kit is on its way ... this is a full composite kit (wings and all) and should be a beaut when its done ... if I'm up to the task. I say "if" because even though I've made extensive modifications to a bunch of ARFs over the years ... this is the first time I'm attempting a full build of any kind much less one that's even remotely SCALE!

This thread is not intended to be a "build thread" but rather something that I hope will keep ME on task since I tend to be a procrastinator. Every year I'm always late to the game in terms of things to fly because I've wasted the winter months when I should be putting my stuff together by thinking ... oh I've got lots of time. Before you know it the whole season is pretty much gone before I finally get all the planes that I intended to fly that season in the air.

This way ... I'm hoping that since I'll be posting here from time to time any progress that is being made, (even if just to post a pic of a part that came in!) it may evoke people's interest and that should keep me on track for the next stage/phase.

This is going to be an ambitious project for me since a lot of the stuff that I intend to do with it is gonna be made from scratch. As I've mentioned the kit itself is somewhat "ARF LIKE" in the sense that it's not something to "build up" (it's fully composite) so I don't have to worry about the main "airframe" as such. However the list below shows the extent of the fabrications that I intend to do (listed not in any particular order) to bring it to the final product.

1. Scale cockpit
2. Scale antenna
3. Scale armament (cannons etc)
4. Landing lights
5. Painting and weathering
6. Scale exhaust stacks
7. Retractable tailwheel
8. Retractable main wheel well doors
9. Integrated control surface mechanisms and battery hatch
10. Retractable canopy (canopy to be procured but retract mechanism to be fabricated.)
11. Scale three blade prop (to be procured not fabricated.)
12. Scale Pilot (to be procured not fabricated.)
13. Scale custom spinner (to be procured not fabricated.)
14. Scale custom retractable 95 degree main LG. (to be procured not fabricated ... Typhoons had about a 1 degree anhedral on the inner portion of the wing so "regular" 90 degree gear wouldn't look square)


I hope to have it "flyable" by the start of the season (april/May) but 100% completed by the Kingston Funfly (late June/early July) Hey if I do a good job maybe I can win an award for this plane at the Temac funfly next year ... it'd be a nice change from the only award that I've ever won in this hobby ... BEST CRASH AWARD! 

[wollins]

December 04, 2011, 10:07:47 pm »   
  Parts are starting to trickle in ... got my struts and my 95 degree Lado electric retracts today. (Yup, Canada post delivered them today ... 

[wollins]

December 09, 2011, 01:17:20 pm »   
--------------
  So now it looks like I will be making my own spinner! This plane calls for a 4.72inch spinner ... not 4.25. 4.5, 4.75 or 5 ... 4.72". Needless to say it's somewhat uncommon and expensive! I originally was ok with buying one (costs about 75 bucks in hand) but then I realized that I need TWO because I intend to eventually use the scale three blade prop which obviously calls for a spinner with three cutouts.

However since I will be starting with a two blader to see how the plane flys (before comitting to the $80 prop! yikes! ) and get comfortable with it, I'll also need a two blade spinner. Course I could always fly it initially with a mis sized spinner but that just won't be right. Solution ... make my own spinner. NOw THAT should be entertaining!

Colin

[wollins]

December 31, 2011, 05:40:41 pm »  -----------------------------


Well, I found one that's the right shape AND size and it only cost about $5. It's "based" on a HobbyKing spinner. (I'll explain later )

In any event, most of my parts have now come in and it seems based on my calculations that she'll come in around EIGHTEEN pounds! At a wing area of 857" that's a porky plane coming in at a whopping wingloading of 48.39oz per sq ft. Anyway, the cube wing loading is more accurate as to how a plane should handle and that wasn't as bad at 19.8.

Still high but apparently manageble. I say apparently manageble because I've been following a number of KMP Typhoon threads (since I'm now totally convinced that this IS a KMP clone) and they have been coming in at up to 19 to 20 pounds! Apparently the thickness of the wing makes it much more forgiving than other planes would be at this wing loading.

The following is its kit weights:

FUSE – 29.5oz
Center Wing – 30.2oz
Left Wing – 12.5oz
Right Wing – 12.35oz
Rear wing tube – 1.1ozs
Wing joiners – 2.6ozs
Gear covers – 1.85ozs
Pushrods – 1.7ozs
Servo covers and blocks - .75ozs
Radiator cover - .75ozs
Cowl – 7.9oz
Exhaust – 2ozs
Left Stab – 3.25ozs
Right stab – 3.3ozs
Rudder – 2.15ozs
Canopy – 2.1oz
Wheel Well covers - 6ozs



TOTAL KIT WEIGHT = 120ozs

The following is its COMPONENT weights:

SUPPO 7035/8 190KV – 44ozs (WITH CONNECTORS AND MOUNT?)
Motor mount standoffs and 8-32 bolts: 4.44oz???
CC 85A HV ESC: 4.2ozs
Turnigy 20 X 10 gas wood prop 4ozs
4.72" diameter (120mm x 103mm) 3 blade spinner: 5oz???
Zippy 30C 12s 5800mah battery: 60ozs
Airtronics 2.4 Ghz 8ch Receiver: .46oz
1 HS-5625MG servo: 2ozs (for elevator)
1 HS-5625MG servo: 2ozs (for rudder)
4 HS-5485HB servos (1.6oz each): 6.4ozs (2 for flaps and 2 for ailerons)
Hercules SUPER Bec: 1.5ozs
LADO Electric Retracts/LADO Struts/Hobby King 4" wheels: 15.5ozs
Electric tail retract/Strut/1¾" wheel: 2.5ozs???

Misc (glue, servo extensions, pushrods and servo screws etc): 8ozs???
Pilot, cockpit and cannons: 8ozs???

TOTAL COMPONENT WEIGHT = 168oz??? OR 10lbs 8ozs???
TOTAL KIT WEIGHT = 120ozs
TOTAL AUW = 288ozs? or 18lbs?

It'll take some real creative fabrication of the stuff that I intend to do to keep this weight down to 18 pounds but I'm gonna give it my best shot. First thing I'm gonna tackle is that spinner ... wish me luck!

More to come ...

Colin

[wollins]

January 02, 2012, 08:31:28 pm »   


  Ok ... so I've started my attempt at fabricating the scale spinner that I need for this plane .... it needs to be 120mm by 103mm ... it's wide and somewhat stubby. Since I've never done anything like this before I decided that I'd give myself a fighting chance of doing a half decent job of it by starting out with a pre-existing spinner! Since Hobbyking sells a nylon spinner ($5 ... whoo hoo!) that's quite near the dimension in length that I need, (103mm) I decided that I'd use that one as my "base".

Here it is ...

Colin

[wollins]

January 02, 2012, 08:52:38 pm »   


  So the whole idea was to use the HK spinner as a "base" and use pink foam to "build it up" to the desired shape and height that I wanted. The plan was to cut a series of foam "rings" of decending diameters (corresponding with the spinner) which would then be molded and glued to the Hk spinner itself. See attached pics and video. First couple pics is the actual base of the HK spinner with its foam "ring" already glued, filled and sanded to the exact diameter that I need.

Third and fourth pics show the first ring attached to the bottom of the spinner itself (not the base) ... THIS ring had to be perfectly level and even in thickness because all the other rings would acend off of it. Simpler than it sounds since pink foam tends to be fairly uniform in its thickness. The video shows the second ring being cut out and rough fitted.

http://youtu.be/pSPAP4Ft-90

Colin

[wollins]

January 02, 2012, 10:37:51 pm »   


  Now we have the built up spinner that has been roughly cut to shape and then sanded ... next will be to apply filler ...

Last pic shows it partially built up. One of the challenges I have is to maintain the screw holes thoughout the now built up spinner. The length of the holes now will be quite a bit deeper than the original holes and I don't have a "skinny" screwdriver that's long enough to down deep enough to reach the screws. So, I'll either have to find a screwdriver that is long enough AND skinny enough for me to be able to reach the screws to tighten the spinner cone to its base or ... I may just convert this spinner to one which tightens down through the middle via a prop nut and bolt. (hence the hole I drilled in the middle at the tip "just in case" I decide to eventually do that.)

First pic ... rough cut to shape
Second ... same from the top
Third ... after first sanding

[wollins]

January 03, 2012, 05:11:17 pm »         Quote from: ededge2002 on January 03, 2012, 03:48:54 pm

If your going into production Colin I will take two! Can you make them 36D ?

 

Hmmmm ... that's funny! I dunno if this one will even turn out (no pun intended) ok. The hard part will be getting it to run "true" and then getting it balanced. So far I'm just shaping etc by eye. My kingdom for a lathe ....

Colin

[wollins]

January 04, 2012, 05:00:52 pm »       I actually have a drill press ands have just started using it with the bolt through the back plate as Rob suggested. Well, my first "problem" (due to inexperience of course) has arisen. (exploded actually ) BEFORE using the drill press I was actually using a spare motor as a my spinning apparatus and while running up the spinner at a somewhat high RPM (you know "testing" the structural integrity of my mod so far! lol) the base foam ring exploded off of the base with a LOUD pop and a shower of foam and filler.

If I has used some common sense I would have realized that that ring needs to be made of something a bit stronger than foam since it has very little surface area (its about 6mm thick - see pic)) with which to adhere to the spinner back plate. In any event, I now have to decide what to use to replace it. Any thoughts? Firberglass, plywood or would even a balsa ring soaked in CA be adequate?

Colin

[wollins]

January 04, 2012, 07:22:59 pm »   
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Foam again with a layer of light glass cloth top and bottom would make it a lot tougher I would think. Might even consider vacuum bagging the finished result as it would add a lot of strength at little weight.  Member#2003
Formosa Racing #666
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2012, 07:44:55 pm »           Yeah ... I thought of that because the actual spinner itself will be glassed. However that bottom ring is in such an awkward position that it would be almost imossible to glass it. I'm leaning towards light ply ... course that comes at the cost of being much more difficult to shape and sand.

Colin

[wollins]

January 05, 2012, 08:52:17 am »   


  Two questions:

1. How would you guys cut out a lite ply disc of this size? I use a dremel cutoff wheel but is there any other more precise way of doing it? (My kingdom for a scroll saw ... damn I should've bought Bruce's ... Eric where are ya? )

2. Can a lopsided (in shape) spinner run "true"? In other words can you have a balanced spinner that's not perfectly symetrical, or is that an oxymoron?

Colin

[wollins]

January 09, 2012, 09:50:06 am »   


  Slow progress on the spinner ... working on multiple projects at the same time. (see some "bling" being added to the Decathlon )I did luck out on getting the spinner nut situation sorted out though. To recap, I decided not to go with the original way that the spinner attaches to the backplate (via four little screws) as per the before mentioned challenges that would represent. (besides the screw holes would'nt look as scale )

This presented another challenge in that I couldn't find a prop nut that was large enough for a 12mm motor shaft! I was told (and confirned after much research) that the biggest typically made was 10mm and so I would have to have something like that custom made. Seeing that that would cost me a good $100 and the motor cost a little more than that I didn't think that was a viable option.

I then thought why not connect the spinner bolt straight onto the shaft itself (which is fairly common.) This would only involve tapping the shaft itself to accept the spnner bolt. Well, since I knew noone with a lathe ... I considered a machine shop ... same issue ... an hours charge just to do that. Probably more money that the motor was worth. Anyways, long story short I was recommended to a guy who does top notch machine work (he actually scratch builds steam locomotives etc) who would do it for about fifteen bucks! SCORE! So now its just up to me to get this darn thing symetrical and spinning true. More to come ...