Scratch Building Class - Norseman Build

[Wingnutz]

     I am so looking forward to this flying season. Given all these modellors/pilots getting down and dirty building and showing their wood skills and craftsmanship. It will be a refreshing change from the off the shelf ARF's. Nice work Jack!

Echo Glenn's thanks to Jack.
"showing their wood skills and craftsmanship."...thanks for extending the benefit of the doubt...we'll see how the fleet of Norsemen do in the air.
I am really grateful to this club and Jack and Frank in particular for the support provided. Sign me up for next year's Scratch Build Class!

[Wingnutz]

I arrived late for class last session and missed the part about hinging ailerons and flaps on the Norseman...so, I'm confused. (happens rarely but lasts for long periods)
I've built the ailerons (and flaps) and support spars as per the plans but haven't cut them free of the wings yet.
The TE of the support spar sits perpendicular to the flat bottom of the wing. The LE of the control surface sits at an angle to the perpendicular allowing the control surface to move without binding on the support spar. I think this necessitates the hinge being located at the top of the support spar and the control surface.
1. IS THIS WHERE THE HINGE SHOULD GO?(top edge of aileron and top edge of aileron support spar) I can't find anything in my directions which help a great deal.

Although this location makes sense to me in providing some appropriate aileron differential, it seems that hinging the flap on the bottom side, even Fowler flap style with the hinge point below the wing (as per the real Norseman) makes more sense. If that's true, I need to rebuild my flaps.
2. SHOULD THE FLAPS BE HINGED AT THE BOTTOM?
3. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE'S A FOWLER FLAP MECHANISM(hinge style, not track) AVAILABLE COMMERCIALLY?
Advice, thoughts, suggestions appreciated...if I've confused readers of this post, LMK. A photo may be a lot clearer.

[Papa]

Hi Bill, Robart sells a Fowler hinge.

http://www.robart.com/products/fowler-flap-hinge-15-scale

Putting the FLAP hinge on the bottom works fine as it's only going down from the hinge line.

I prefer to put the AILERON hinge in the middle.

Jack.

[Wingnutz]

Jack,
Aileron hinge in the middle is the way I've done all previous models. If I follow the Unionville directions ( I already have) I don't think that will work...ergo the question about locating the hinge if the ribs are cut (half of mine are) for top mounted hinges.
Thanks for the lead on the Robarts Fowlers flap hinges....wow...pricey! The flaps on the real Norseman are not really Fowlers (there's no track to extend wing area) but the hinge pivot point is below the wing. I think I'm going to try something like that. I'll bring my design or prototype to class on Monday.
Couple of pictures of full size Norseman flap mechanisms...from RCCanada.

[eric]

Just adding in my 2 cents worth. My wing is complete and ready for cover. I picked up a hinge slotting tool and will hinge the ailerons and flaps tomorrow night. The strings in the picture are pull wires for my aileron anf flap servo wires. I've already pulled the wires through a few dry runs, so I know they won't hang up under the covering and make me tear my hair out.

This has been a very satisfying experience so far. The fuselage has me baffled in a few places so I'm looking forward to the next build night so I can see a completed one.

Eric

[eric]

Forgot to post my colour scheme. I like the first picture, sort of a burgundy/gold. Its a bit over my head so I may have to beg some help from Ken Coleman.

If its not in the cards I'll go with the white/yellow/black. It reminds me a little of the scheme on my Aeronca Chief I owned with a friend way, way back in my single days when I had a wee bit of disposable money. Amazing what wife, kids, mortgage, vehicles, etc. do to cash flow!

Eric

[piker]

All this building and planning is so cool, guys!  Keep up the great work!

And the colour schemes are really nice too.  Such a selection!

Robert

[sihinch]

The flaps on the real Norseman are not really Fowlers (there's no track to extend wing area) but the hinge pivot point is below the wing. I think I'm going to try something like that.

How about a hatch hinge Bill, like this?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8230__Hatch_Hinge_27x10_5mm_10pcs_.html

[battlestu]

i have a few of those left over from a build ... i'll bring them out to the next pilots meeting

[Wingnutz]

The flaps on the real Norseman are not really Fowlers (there's no track to extend wing area) but the hinge pivot point is below the wing. I think I'm going to try something like that.

How about a hatch hinge Bill, like this?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8230__Hatch_Hinge_27x10_5mm_10pcs_.html

Simon, Greg, those are close to what I'm planning. I'm going to try my own design but I may end up going the HK route.

[Wingnutz]

Forgot to post my colour scheme. I like the first picture, sort of a burgundy/gold.
Eric

Eric,
Nice choices! I like the burgundy/gold except...it's AMERICAN! Surely there's a Canadian colour scheme out there that grabs you???  
Your wing looks good. 

[Wingnutz]

[quote author=eric link=topic=3879.msg20839#msg20839 date=

If its not in the cards I'll go with the white/yellow/black. It reminds me a little of the scheme on my Aeronca Chief I owned
Eric
[/quote]
Hi Eric,
Hope all is well. I found some more photos of your Chimo Air Service colour scheme. I think it's white/yellow/blue. The guy who did the RCCanada Norseman build picked this colour scheme too. Flap hinge detail is visible here.

[Papa]

Hi Guys. The fuselage is somewhat confusing I agree. Frank is building one side on his board and will do the other side at the class. The drawing on the plan is for a wing held down with rubber bands. The one in the instructions is for a wing being held down with wing bolts. Took a while for the penny to drop.

I used epoxy on the front for strength and wood glue every where else. When I dry fit the rudder it was not a good fit to the fuselage so I needed to make a wedge to lift the front. Fortunately a 1/4" was all I needed. See the first photo. I gently held it on my bench sander to get the chamfer. I also chamfered a couple of my finger nails. Not recommended but ...

The top of the wing has to be built up for the cabin roof but only when you have the fuselage well under way as the two have to be sanded in a pleasing curve. The risers are very much over size but I used a plane with a coarse set blade to bring it down and finished with my mini block plane with a fine set on the blade.

I started my servo tray for the rudder and elevator. The servos have neat clips that fasten to the lugs and eliminate the need to punch out rectangles for the servos.

That's it for now.

Jack.

[Wingnutz]

 Thanks Frank and Jack for another great session! (Fuselage) Watching Frank build (live!) was a treat and an education all at once. You have to have tried to build to appreciate how good he is..all of us in the class(especially me) have a lot to learn! 
Jack made reference to the fact that the Unionville plans/instructions could be clearer...that's my excuse for all my screwups and why I got to class last night with half my homework done...one wing almost done with mods ...other wing started but waiting until I can correct mistakes from the first one. I also followed Jack's wisdom and used the plans as a starting point and did the following wing mods;
Wingtip...all new to create a more scale shape...added two shortened ribs
Flap...flaps on the big Unionville Norseman model are designed to hinge at the top. The real Norseman has flap hinges with pivot points below the wing...inverted the completed flap and added a piece of tri-stock balsa to the flap support spar and will mount with Robarts pin hinges.
Spar...had an old windsurfing sail batten which is a 9/16" o.d. carbon tube and used it as a spar/tube for the
aileron servo extension. It extends from the root to the main strut connection points
I finished my homework for next class a month ago...instructions started with fuselage!

[Wingnutz]

I built the fuselage on a magnetic board using the techniques on airfieldmodels.com
Since I have no previous experience building anything this size in balsa, I have nothing to compare magnetic board building to, but with the help of the Unionville Norseman build on RCCanada, it seemed to go together just fine.
I'm leaning towards using the wing bolt access hatch which is the top of the cabin for battery access...any thoughts on this idea from experienced or interested types would be appreciated.