Field improvement committee

[akabek]

I was speaking to Keswick member and they are planning to install the runway at the end of this week.  Not sure how that will go with the rain at the end of the week.

[akabek]

I just heard Keswick installed their fabric runway on Sunday

[Finnigan]

I just heard Keswick installed their fabric runway on Sunday

Hi akebek,

This is great news! I look forward to visiting Keswick soon and having a first hand look.

Unfortunately TEMAC has neither the resources or logistics in place to install a similar runway in the near future. Perhaps if more members vocalized a keen interest that would expedite the process, and runway improvements would have a higher ranking on the "to do" list.

[Ededge2002]

Unfortunately TEMAC has neither the resources or logistics in place to install a similar runway in the near future. Perhaps if more members vocalized a keen interest that would expedite the process, and runway improvements would have a higher ranking on the "to do" list.

Possibly there should be a $200 increase in membership dues to help offset the costs involved ...

[sihinch]

I find it interesting that some people are making comment about our resources and priorities. 

Is there a new section of the Board or new Committees that I don't know about? 

And I can assure you that "if more members vocalized a keen interest" our process (for reviewing the runway) would not be affected.  We have a plan in place (to review options) as a result of the interest already shown.

[akabek]

I spoke to a member of the Keswick club today and they were unsure how the runway was installed.  The true test will be in a month or two.  From my understanding if the grass below is the runway is not dead or removed prior to installing the runway it will not stay flat for long.  I would wait a few weeks before passing judgement as to weather it is a worth while expense.

[Skyking]

Sorry,

Rick, I'm happy to see you engaged in discussion about club improvement.

This has been a bit of a touchy subject and I think that it is important that we note if we are posting an opinion or a fact. Do you know for certain that it is necessary to remove grass. I had not heard that before.

Thanks,

Ken

[akabek]

Sorry,

I didn't mean to submit the last post until I had added a comment.

Rick, I'm happy to see you engaged in discussion about club improvement.

This has been a bit of a touchy subject and I think that it is important that we note if we are posting an opinion or a fact. Do you know for certain that it is necessary to remove grass. I had not heard that before.

Thanks,

Ken

I will not claim to be an expert on the subject.  From what I heard another field in the GTA installed the same runway material and they either did not kill the grass or remove it.  A few weeks later the landing strip became bumpy due the grass underneath.  I do not think removing the grass is a must but it you do not prepare the base properly the mesh material will shrink and mirror what is below it.  To get a nice runway the ground needs to be flat, compressed and not shift.  I have not been at Temac long so I do not know how the different seasons effect our runway and it regular maintenance is required for our field.  If the runway experiences erosion it may be better offer leaving it with grass or you would have to remove the fabric and repair the base frequently.

I am all for a nice flat runway but only if it makes sense.  I would wait to see how the Keswick field turns out as an example and also find out what they did to prep the field.

[bfeist]

My understanding of this astroturf-like "runway material" is that it's a good option for clubs that are in very dry climates that can't grow grass. I believe Michael contacted one of the first clubs using it a while back to find out more, and their response was something like, "It's not as good as grass. If your club can grow grass why would you want this?" Also, if we killed the grass at TEMAC and put one of these tarps down instead, we wouldn't be able to use brakes (and our models would need brakes) because it rips the fabric. In short, we would need much more land.

For any of you who haven't flown at some of the older clubs like Oakville or Kingston, smooth fields are fun and everything but you need a VERY long landing area. I use about 40% more runway at Kingston than I do at TEMAC to land larger planes.

I think field improvement is a worthy cause. Oakville has golf fairway-like grass that's hard and smooth. Kingston is almost golf green-like grass that's even harder and smoother. I know the TEMAC field can be a bit bumpy (specially in the runway extension area), but it gets better every year and will continue to.

If there are any grass experts in the club it would be great to hear from you. Personally, I'd like to hear a non-tarp conversation about improving the field at TEMAC. i.e., how do you tend smooth grass? How often do you mow/roll/fertilize/water? What are the options? What are the costs? How do you strike the right balance between using the field and growing amazing grass? How much can we affect our grass given that we can't water it? How practical are any of these options in light of being on farm land?

Ben

[sihinch]

how do you tend smooth grass? How often do you roll? What are the options? What are the costs? How do you strike the right balance between using the field and growing amazing grass? How much can we affect our grass given that we can't water it?

Some great quotes, Ben!  I like your thinking!!! 

[akabek]

I would have to agree with the comments above.  Our field may not be a good fit for a geotextile runway.

Do we have any connections with the clubs that do have a nice grass field to pick their brian?  Maybe we need to use a different grass seed/fertilizer.

[Finnigan]

My understanding of this astroturf-like "runway material" is that it's a good option for clubs that are in very dry climates that can't grow grass. I believe Michael contacted one of the first clubs using it a while back to find out more, and their response was something like, "It's not as good as grass. If your club can grow grass why would you want this?" Also, if we killed the grass at TEMAC and put one of these tarps down instead, we wouldn't be able to use brakes (and our models would need brakes) because it rips the fabric. In short, we would need much more land.

For any of you who haven't flown at some of the older clubs like Oakville or Kingston, smooth fields are fun and everything but you need a VERY long landing area. I use about 40% more runway at Kingston than I do at TEMAC to land larger planes.

Regarding grass vs. geotex, I would agree, grass would in fact be better. But all grass isn't created equal. it really depends on the condition of the runway.

Geotex is commonly used as a cheap alternative to create a semi-permanent, quick solution.

As far as issues with very smooth grass runways such as Kingston, I suppose it's a question of a lesser of two evils.

Longer stopping distances VS. nose-overs, rough taxiing/take-offs which may damage some models, and the issue of some models not able to take-off altogether.

And with a smooth runway, don't forget the added benefit of those nice scale take-offs which even smaller models can enjoy

If you were to ask Kingston/Oakville members if they would be willing to swap their runway for ours, I doubt you would get many affirmative responses.

There would be some work involved in putting together the necessary resources and executing a plan to effect real change, having a review committee come back in 6 months to tell us what we already knew is not a solution.

Someone at the top would do well if they were to grab the reigns and lead.

[bfeist]

Regarding grass vs. geotex, I would agree, grass would in fact be better. But all grass isn't created equal. it really depends on the condition of the runway.

Geotex is commonly used as a cheap alternative to create a semi-permanent, quick solution.

As far as issues with very smooth grass runways such as Kingston, I suppose it's a question of a lesser of two evils.

Longer stopping distances VS. nose-overs, rough taxiing/take-offs which may damage some models, and the issue of some models not able to take-off altogether.

And with a smooth runway, don't forget the added benefit of those nice scale take-offs which even smaller models can enjoy

If you were to ask Kingston/Oakville members if they would be willing to swap their runway for ours, I doubt you would get many affirmative responses.

There would be some work involved in putting together the necessary resources and executing a plan to effect real change, having a review committee come back in 6 months to tell us what we already knew is not a solution.

Someone at the top would do well if they were to grab the reigns and lead.

I think the Kingston/Oakville guys definitely love their fields, but the point is that they are both grass, not geotex. They are also several times larger than TEMAC so they get to enjoy both, Longer stopping distances and fewer nose-overs.

The TEMAC field is improving every year. I don't think there's a need for the leadership to "grab the reigns" here. The club already organizes spring field maintenance and tends the field throughout the year. We have a fantastic field, a fun loving and positive membership, and leaders who already volunteer lots of time to make this the greatest RC club in the GTA.

I believe this all started because a few members were interested in investigating geotex, i.e. kill the grass in order to have a smooth runway for small models. I've suggested above that instead of killing the grass, members interested in improving the field investigate field improvement rather than field replacement. Kingston/Oakville are obviously doing something right, but I suspect smoothness has to do with the number of years a field is tended more than anything else. That's why I'm happy to enjoy our naturally improving field each year without having to take any drastic measures.

Ben

[Michael]

Someone at the top would do well if they were to grab the reigns and lead.

TEMAC is always looking for hard-working volunteers to take a leadership role at TEMAC.

Are you a member of TEMAC?

[piker]

I was flying at Oakville last weekend and it's no smoother than TEMAC.  In fact, flying there is worse because of all the trees growing up around it, and they're not allowed to chop them down.  Kingston is smooth because (I think) its just a very thin layer (maybe 1") of soil over flat rock of the Canadian Shield, AND they've been there for over 40 years.  When we fly there each year it's usually during a hot period and the grass that's cut short is usually quite dry.

The old Richmond hill field was the best grass field I've ever flown at.  It was prepared by a sod farmer prior to planting grass seed, I believe.  TEMAC was created very quickly from a VERY roughly plowed farmers field with nothing more than a section of chain link fence towed behind a pick-up.  Considering it's humble beginnings, I think it's fantastic.  Apparently some of the newcomers to the club can't appreciate that.

How to make it better?  I don't know.  I bet the best way is to till it up, add a few inches of fine topsoil, seed, and wait a couple of years without use.  I'm sure nobody wants to do that, so perhaps the next best option is to roll more regularly... but I'm not sure.

Robert