Piaggio P180 Avanti scratch build previously "Foam choice for a scratch build...

Wingnutz · January 09, 2014, 11:00:12 AM

Maybe I can up the Canadian content this way,

Ededge2002 · January 09, 2014, 11:59:19 AM

A beautiful subject.

During the summer one frequently passed my house. I can hear it approaching because of its very unique sound. The twin Turbo prop pusher has a very "high performance" sound that I just love.

piker · January 09, 2014, 03:07:40 PM

"Bruce Weaver is building a Savoia Marchetti S55x which is a really nifty waterplane, so support me in pestering Bruce to post his build! Should be an interesting model!"

Oooooo.... Why didn't I hear about this last night?!! Very cool. Yes Bruce, PLEASE create a build thread so we can follow along!

And Bill. I'm disappointed. I felt special being "in the know" about the Piaggio

Wingnutz · January 09, 2014, 05:02:49 PM

Quote from: Ededge2002 on January 09, 2014, 11:59:19 AM
A beautiful subject.

During the summer one frequently passed my house. I can hear it approaching because of its very unique sound. The twin Turbo prop pusher has a very "high performance" sound that I just love.

Ed,
Thanks for your presentation last night, it must be nice to play with such fascinating toys and get paid for it!
I've lived about a km from the south end of Buttonville's main runway(33/15) for the last 30 years. I enjoy the parade of Cessnas and Pipers from Toronto Airways and Seneca and occasionally something really interesting lands or takes off. Amongst all the training school traffic I've seen Vintage Wings' Spitfire and a CF-18 do a low pass, the Snowbirds do the same in formation and a Canadian Forces Globemaster take off! I know when there's something special by the sound and the one that gets me running(staggering lately) to the window is the Piaggio. You're right...twin pusher turboprops with five blade propellors have a sound all their own...especially on approach as they seem to keep the throttles at least 1/2 open(should that be 50% for a turbine?)...music to an aviation buff's ears!
Once I found out what it was, I got even more interested and had to try to build one! 3-view was the only way I could find.

Wingnutz · January 11, 2014, 04:29:12 PM

Well, re-charged by Andy Hoffer's enthusiasm for RCing, airplanes and life in general, I started the right half of the Piaggio fuse. As you can see, maintaining "Canadian Content " has been ...enjoyable. After chatting with Robert at the meeting and becoming increasingly frustrated with the foam "snow" which is now everywhere in my house, I decided to hollow out this side of the fuse before I put the wafers together. Turns out only slightly less messy, but hopefully lighter. Got about half of the right side glued together...looks a bit lumpy...time to walk the dog and maybe work on some Canadian ...content

Tom M. · January 11, 2014, 06:36:07 PM

Love what you're doing here, Bill- great choice of subject, and I'll bet the sound of yours will be as unique as the full size. Regarding the foam mess- if you don't do it already, keep your trusty shop-vac handy and vacuum the stuff on the bench and yourself every few minutes rather than at the end of a session. Should help keep the foam off the poor dog and out of your underwear.

Tom

Wingnutz · January 11, 2014, 10:16:44 PM

Quote from: Tom M. on January 11, 2014, 06:36:07 PM
Love what you're doing here, Bill- great choice of subject, and I'll bet the sound of yours will be as unique as the full size. Regarding the foam mess- if you don't do it already, keep your trusty shop-vac handy and vacuum the stuff on the bench and yourself every few minutes rather than at the end of a session. Should help keep the foam off the poor dog and out of your underwear.
Tom

Tom!
Great to hear from you! I've followed your bug build with envy...another Muir Masterpiece in the making! Great stuff!
Too late for the underwear but maybe The vacuum will help the dog...I thought that was dandruff!
I've started reading about trimming canards and understand enough to know I have no idea what I'm doing...so,
before I get too far I'm going to build a small model, probably a glider to test CG,canard incidence...so much to learn!
Attached another picture of a full-size...the thing really is beautiful...apparently the only straight lines on the fuse are windows and doors...very organic looking and apparently provides 20% of the lift!
Also pictures of the right fuse half...tomorrow we'll see how the two halves fit!

sihinch · January 12, 2014, 01:48:28 AM

Not sure if there are meant to be 1 beer per section?

Great build Bill. It's looking fab.

Bigstik · January 12, 2014, 09:15:04 PM

The Piaggio Avanti is loaded with 'Canadian content'. It is powered by two Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A, -67A I think, turboprops. I have heard it flyover as well and it does have a unique sound partially because one engine drives it's propleller one way, the other in the opposite direction

Bigstik

Wingnutz · January 13, 2014, 01:07:22 AM

Phew! Thanks John! Thought I was going oto have to rely on the beer for Canadian Content! At Simon's suggested rate, I should be on the second case! So far there are 32 sections or wafers...16 on each side.
I finished gluing the second side late last night but I had to take the last four sections off the right side and re-do them. Will trial fit the fuse halves tomorrow.(later today actually)

Wingnutz · January 13, 2014, 08:14:11 AM

All it needs is some fins and it would look like a foam carp! Lots of filling and sanding to go but the fit of the two sides will do. Gonna leave the sanding and filling until the wing and tail components are trial-fitted. Compared the weights of the pre-hollowed and post(wafer gluing)sides and the pre-hollowed is nearly 4oz lighter. The addition of Canadian Content continues...

sihinch · January 13, 2014, 08:22:03 AM

I think it looks more like a Pike, Bill!

But it does look super awesome!

piker · January 13, 2014, 10:13:15 AM

Of course it looks awesome if it looks like a Pike

But I'm concerned that the beer bottle collection is out pacing the fuselage construction...

Seriously though, it does look fantastic! You're giving Mad Man Michael a run for his money. Great work!

Wingnutz · January 13, 2014, 01:56:41 PM

I doubt I'll ever build or fly as well as MMM but I'll probably drink more beer along the way...sorry, add more "Canadian" content

I've changed to top view on the workbench to have a run at the wings...gulp...they are really small! I may deviate from scale somewhat here...mach speeds are not what I'm after...any suggestions for an airfoil? I really don't know enough to make an informed choice on my own and unless someone knows a better choice, I'll probably opt for Clark Y.
Apparently the full sizer uses a special airfoil which allows the small wing area. It also appears to use a variation of Fowler flaps to increase wing area and decrease approach speed and I'm not planning flaps...if I did, I'd probably have to add the flaps on the canards which deploy when the main wing flaps are deployed...bigger wing should solve some of this.

Wingnutz · January 13, 2014, 02:40:32 PM

Building this way involves making many of the decisions that would be thought out for the builder if plans, instructions or a kit were available.
Should have included this in the last post but I'd sure appreciate some thoughts from experienced builders about wing construction and mounting. I have little (no) experience building this way and I'm largely "winging" it

!
I'm planning to hot wire cut foam blanks and balsa sheet them. Plans are to build five sections; a centre section through the fuse with no dihedral, left and right fuse to nacelle sections with scale or close to scale dihedral(this much will be permanently attached to the fuse) and removable sections outboard of the nacelles. Main spar and drag spar will be cut from ply...thickness? WS is just under five feet and my target weight is under six pounds (maybe a tad optimistic)
I'm not sure my plan to permanently glue the centre wing section in is the best...so far none of my plans are cast in ...epoxy ...except the fuse halves which were done with canopy glue anyway.
Any hints appreciated...