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Author Topic: FPV at TEMAC  (Read 1706 times)

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Online Crazyflyer

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FPV at TEMAC
« on: March 18, 2018, 06:25:05 pm »
Hi All,
This year we are going to have more FPV pilots at TEMAC than ever before. Last year you mostly had to worry about the crazy Hagens brothers, now Simon, the Hazelton brothers, Vadim, Carlos, Peter and quite a few others are getting more heavily into FPV, so we are all in trouble!!
I am working on a frequency board and will come up with some rules that we should adhere to. Peter Palumbo has graciously offered to create the board.

1. Most importantly before plugging in a plane or quad with an FPV system, make sure no one else is flying FPV. Even if you are on a different channel, you may cause a lot of interference.
2. Before you plug in, check to see what frequencies other FPV pilots are using. You will need to tag yourself on the board BEFORE plugging in the battery.
3. If 2 or more people are flying FPV (on different channels), when landing try to unplug right away and away from the other pilot. Walking or landing beside someone flying FPV with another "drone", will create very strong interference (even on different channels).

Here is a link to a great article on FPV frequencies:
https://www.propwashed.com/video-frequency-management/

Ideally we should all use RACEBAND frequencies which have the best spread. And with alternating between "right hand" and "left hand" circular polarized antennas, we can have as much as 8 people in the air without too much interference (Yes I know we can only fly 5 people at ROGO field). I will create a separate option for Fatshark band (Band F), on these bands a max of 4 people can fly at the same time with a bit of interference.
We should also pay attention to the power of the video transmitters:
25mw: good for indoor or fairly close
200mw: most quad racing events use this power level (good for up to 500m depending on your setup)
600mw: good for flying to the end of the field without losing visual. Some with great receivers and directional antennas could keep the signal for up the 2 km.

Any suggestions please add below.

Stephan






« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 06:49:48 pm by Crazyflyer »



Offline sihinch

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 06:48:52 pm »
Hi Stephan,

Thanks for taking the lead on this. We had a Board meeting last weekend and agreed we would create a frequency board for FPV. It great to have your knowledge and experience involved with it. Are you happy to continue taking the lead on this?

If there are any costs, please let us know.

Thank you again! This is awesome,

Simon

Online Crazyflyer

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2018, 06:50:40 pm »
Of course Simon, it is my pleasure.
Stephan

Offline Palkina

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2018, 08:22:38 pm »
The following shows how to combine all different bands. Taken from one of the links provided earlier by Stephan.

Offline Andy Hoffer

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2018, 09:26:44 pm »
Hi All,
This year we are going to have more FPV pilots at TEMAC than ever before. Last year you mostly had to worry about the crazy Hagens brothers, now Simon, the Hazelton brothers, Vadim, Carlos, Peter and quite a few others are getting more heavily into FPV, so we are all in trouble!!
I am working on a frequency board and will come up with some rules that we should adhere to. Peter Palumbo has graciously offered to create the board.

1. Most importantly before plugging in a plane or quad with an FPV system, make sure no one else is flying FPV. Even if you are on a different channel, you may cause a lot of interference.
2. Before you plug in, check to see what frequencies other FPV pilots are using. You will need to tag yourself on the board BEFORE plugging in the battery.
3. If 2 or more people are flying FPV (on different channels), when landing try to unplug right away and away from the other pilot. Walking or landing beside someone flying FPV with another "drone", will create very strong interference (even on different channels).

Here is a link to a great article on FPV frequencies:
https://www.propwashed.com/video-frequency-management/

Ideally we should all use RACEBAND frequencies which have the best spread. And with alternating between "right hand" and "left hand" circular polarized antennas, we can have as much as 8 people in the air without too much interference (Yes I know we can only fly 5 people at ROGO field). I will create a separate option for Fatshark band (Band F), on these bands a max of 4 people can fly at the same time with a bit of interference.
We should also pay attention to the power of the video transmitters:
25mw: good for indoor or fairly close
200mw: most quad racing events use this power level (good for up to 500m depending on your setup)
600mw: good for flying to the end of the field without losing visual. Some with great receivers and directional antennas could keep the signal for up the 2 km.

Any suggestions please add below.

Stephan

Great post Stephan, especially the linked article. 
A couple of questions:
How quickly can a FPV pilot convert to direct visual line-of-sight (VLOS) control when he or she loses FPV control due to interference?  (It seems like there is significant potential for this to occur.)
Is it advisable to have the spotter/safety pilot on a buddy box to allow immediate transfer of control until the FPV pilot can establish VLOS when the FPV signal is lost or severely degraded?

Thanks,

Andy

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2018, 09:49:09 pm »
Hi Andy, having a spotter on a buddy box is definitely an option and may be good for beginners, but not wanted by experienced FPV pilots.
If you understand how your aircraft reacts, and are aware of where you are and attitude of your craft, you can keep going straight and level, take your goggles off and have your spotter point where your craft is. This can be done in less than 5 seconds. If you are going 100km/h 20' off the ground, your spotter will never have the time to take over anyways.
As you become more comfortable with FPV, you will know exactly where you are and can recover LOS with less trouble. But things always happen, people crash flying line of sight anyways.

I will add some preliminary rules I am suggesting in the next post. We can definitely discuss this more.

Online Crazyflyer

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2018, 09:51:50 pm »
Here are preliminary guidelines I am thinking about:

FPV RULES:
1. Before plugging in, check that no one is flying FPV.
2. Check to see if anyone else is about to turn on their FPV system
3. Tag the frequency you would like to use on the frequency board
4. Turn on your aircraft with FPV (ensure no one is flying) and switch to the proper channel.
5. If there are multiple people flying FPV, try to coordinate to fly together or once they have landed. Taking off while someone is flying far away can cause interference.
6. Use a spotter to make sure you are not interfering with other aircraft, and to help locate your plane in case you lose FPV connection.
7. FPV systems are very sensitive, if someone is flying FPV, do not fly or walk by them within 15’ with an active video transmitter; even if you are on a different channel, this will create very strong interference with their system.

Use your spotter:
• MAAC requires a spotter to make sure another MAAC pilot can take control of your plane in case you loose FPV connection with your aircraft. If you are flying a multicopter or a fast plane, it is very unlikely that your spotter will be able to take control of your craft in time, however the spotter can tell you where you are, suggest certain maneuvers, and see exactly where you land (or dig a hole!!)
• If you do loose FPV connection, it could be for a moment, it could be due to equipment failure or it could be someone else plugging in. When flying a multicopter in “acro” mode, switch to angle mode (practice switching quickly), it will make it easier to avoid crashing, as it will let you hover (don’t power too much or too little). Your spotter can then guide you with less stress.
• If you lose FPV for more than 2 seconds, try to go straight and level, calmly pull off your goggles and have your spotter point to where your aircraft is. Chances are that you will be able to recover

Learning to fly FPV
• When learning to fly FPV, one of the hardest lessons is to understand your altitude (most FPV cameras have a very wide field of view which really distorts distance). Ask your spotter to tell you approximately what altitude you are flying until you get comfortable judging for yourself. Force yourself to go lower and lower (stay at a consistent level for the length of the runway) until you get used to your altitude.
• Landing FPV is very scary at first, you may want to fly level in front on you, pull off your goggles to land LOS (line of sight), but once you are comfortable with judging distance, you will love landing FPV (this relates to planes, landing a multicopter with the camera angled up, is not fun as you can only see the sky!!).
• You will also need to get used to where you are, when you are 300’ up or 1000’ away, you can forget where you are and have a hard time finding the runway.
• When flying FPV planes, your speed will also be very hard to judge, if you enjoy flying slow, you have to be aware that you can stall because you didn’t realize how slow you were going. Get to know your airplane LOS and be aware of wind speed and wind direction. An experienced spotter can guide you with that.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 10:25:59 pm by Crazyflyer »

Online Crazyflyer

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 01:15:11 pm »
Quick question for all the FPV pilots.
I would like to simplify the frequency board as much as possible. Most people I fly with have "raceband" on their receivers and transmitters.
Is there anyone that doesn't have access to Raceband? and if not, is there someone that does not have access to Fatshark bands (F) on their system either?
Attached is the board I am thinking of creating. And just putting a clothespin with your name on the section you will be using.
Thanks.

Stephan

Offline sihinch

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 01:30:16 pm »
I do have a couple of Boscam Tx Stephan, without Fatshark or Raceband frequencies.

Offline Oscar

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 02:11:23 pm »
I only use FatShark / ImmersionRC product but none have RaceBand frequency.

Online Crazyflyer

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 04:18:07 pm »
Ok you trouble makers, I will add Boscam to the board as well. There are some Boscam channels that will work with Raceband and Fatshark.
I will however omit certain channels on Boscam and Fatshark to avoid potential interferences and to keep the spread to 40MHz minimum.

Online Crazyflyer

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 05:33:20 pm »
Here is the updated board.
This setup will give us 6 groups or 6 people can fly together if needed.
There are plenty of other channels, however these are the ones that should have the least amount of interference using all the bands (Race, Fatshark, Boscam A&B and Wide).
One note is that generally you want 40MHz between channels, you will notice that Racebands are a little bit less. Ideally if we have 8 people flying, we would use the Racebands only, and alternating the antenna polarization with every channel (R1 = right hand antenna, R2 = left hand, R3 = RH, R4= LH, etc...) This is the way big events do it. At this point, it isn't required for TEMAC.

If anyone has suggestions, please let me know and I will have this sign fabricated.

Stephan
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 05:37:46 pm by Crazyflyer »

Offline sihinch

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 06:06:18 pm »
Excuse the ignorance please Stephan, but I thought from your earlier post that these were the optimal channels for Race band and Fatshark:

Race band - CH1, 2, 8
Fatshark - CH1, 3, 5, 7

Offline ppalumbo

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 09:20:50 pm »
How is this as a draft for the board. I was thinking we could add the rules as a separate board so we can just replace as the rules are updated (e.g. pit mode, etc..).  Think I may be able have this made for Sunday.

Online Crazyflyer

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Re: FPV at TEMAC
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 09:42:36 pm »
Hi Simon, attached I have 2 versions:

Option A: Raceband is the main choice (1st setup I created)
Option B: Fatshark is the main choice (new option as per your last comment, but R2 is too close to A8 but we can use R3)

Option B is probably better as more people are familiar with Fatshark rather than Raceband anyways.
Let me know if I missed something.