Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club Forum

Toronto Electric Model Aviation Club (TEMAC) => Building / Construction => Topic started by: frajolex on January 07, 2015, 05:45:07 PM

Title: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 07, 2015, 05:45:07 PM
A few weeks ago I bought 2 new planes... The first one was the Skyline Sokhoi Su26 (http://www.generalhobby.com/skyline-sukhoi-su26-aerobatic-airplane-p-838.html) ($155 at General Hobby), the second one was the Top Flite Cessna 182 Skylane (http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=TOPA0300) ($189 at Great Hobbies). while the Sukhoi comes already assembled, the Cessna is a laser cut kit that will demand lots of work from my side, specially because this is the first time I'm building a kit, so expect some mistakes and lots of questions.

Does anyone here already built this kit? If yes, please raise your hand(!), I will definitely need your help.


The kit looks really nice, and according the plan, the first section to be built is the horizontal stabilizer.


I've been pinning the pieces over the plan, and it seems this approach is working well...


One of the parts that is concerning me is the Wing.... according the plan, the wing is divided into 3 sub-sections...which should be glued when you complete the assembly, making it one single piece....  Now comes my question to the experienced builders (@piker, @Michael , @Papa, etc)...


Is it possible to "adapt" this wing to make it 2 pieces, or even keep 3 pieces? I would love to have this wing like the foamies, where you have the carbon rod holding the pieces together.


I'll be posting updates as soon as they happen!



Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Papa on January 07, 2015, 06:42:41 PM
If you have not built a kit before then this will present some challenges. You can do it but you will need to take your time and read the manual many times over before you build a part. What advantage did you hope to achieve with a two piece wing?


If you wish you can bring it to our build class next Monday with your board and we can have someone look at it for you and offer advice.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 07, 2015, 06:47:48 PM
lol! I want 2 piece wing so it can fit my Kia Forte!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Otherwise I won't be able to carry anything but the cessna inside.




I know it will be a real challenge Jack, and that's why I'm not rushing the process... in fact, I'm really going slow, I want to leverage your experience to ensure I'm building this properly, with everything in its place.. I will bring the foam with the pinned pieces to our club meetings @ Colonel Mustard so you guys can take a look and give me some advice... Monday I will be there, I also want to get the Morphine plans and wings.... I'm ashamed I didn't have real time to attend the classes before, it was a rushy end of the year. :(
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: battlestu on January 07, 2015, 08:09:01 PM
I also have the same kit ... But it is mostly built when I got it from Cadez.


Haven't done anything with it yet. I wanted to clear up some other kits first before I started working on it


Greg
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 07, 2015, 08:15:22 PM
is it covered with balsa already? if not, can you post pictures of the stabilizers?
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Michael on January 07, 2015, 08:43:59 PM
I built the Top Flite DC3 kit, and had intended to make a 3-piece wing (for ease of transport), but the design didn't lend itself to an easy modification, and would have required extensive changes and work.

As Jack said, if you bring it to a meeting, we can have a look and maybe make some suggestions.

Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: battlestu on January 07, 2015, 11:54:02 PM
Quote from: frajolex on January 07, 2015, 08:15:22 PM
is it covered with balsa already? if not, can you post pictures of the stabilizers?

Sorry it's already been covered.
I can also bring the main wing to the meeting if you want to take a look at it.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 08, 2015, 01:31:11 AM
Initially I would like to see the stab / elev, but since you have both main wing and stab / elev ready, I appreciate if you can bring it to the next meeting... I'll be bringing my stab on Monday along with the plans so that you guys can give me some ideas
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: piker on January 08, 2015, 10:22:32 AM
That will be a great build, Andre.  It's great to see you getting involved!

And your construction style looks very good so far.  Nice and neat and well planned.  You'll do fine.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 08, 2015, 12:02:00 PM
And to make you happier Piker, I'm planning to put this baby on floats.  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: piker on January 08, 2015, 01:45:51 PM
Of course!  Scale EDO floats for you too!    ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: battlestu on January 09, 2015, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: frajolex on January 08, 2015, 01:31:11 AM
Initially I would like to see the stab / elev, but since you have both main wing and stab / elev ready, I appreciate if you can bring it to the next meeting... I'll be bringing my stab on Monday along with the plans so that you guys can give me some ideas

no problem I'll bring it out to the next meeting
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 11, 2015, 09:01:47 PM
Made some progress on the horizontal stab and elevators.... I must say, this is way more difficult than I thought..... specially because I don't have specialized tools... (all I'm using is a cutting knife, a razor blade, a rule, and sand paper).


I'm struggling to cut the balsa properly... but I think I'm doing OK.... so here are the horizontal stabilizer and elevators.... note that the wing tips still need some work...  comments / suggestions are always welcome.

Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 13, 2015, 09:48:18 AM
After a good chat with the experts, I was able to pretty much finish my horizontal stabilizer... I consider it 95% done, the only missing step is filling / sanding to smooth the lines... I'm already building the fin / rudder... it should be ready soon.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: sihinch on January 13, 2015, 11:50:50 AM
Looks great Andre!  And it was great of you to come to build class last night.  :D
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 16, 2015, 12:15:37 AM
Okay, so I've sanded the stab / elev tips to match the profile, and now it seems the are in an acceptable shape. The next step is to add the ringes and finally make it one piece. Meanwhile, I've started the Fin / Rudder,  despite some little issues with the first rib (biggest), I'm quite happy with the results. I was able to cover the first side of the fin, but I just remembered that I would like to add the plastic tube for the beacon... so therefore, I can't close the fin yet.... can someone give me some advice on that? My plan is to add scale lights, so I want to make sure this works well.


In any case, I will bring both pieces next monday to Colonel's Mustard for a final review with the pros....
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: battlestu on January 16, 2015, 08:34:37 AM
looking good.

personally i would punch out some holes and rough in the wires. Then clean it up once your close to finishing it off (or use some string and then pull the wires. Like arfs kits do for ailerons)

Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 16, 2015, 01:52:15 PM
Ended up drilling the holes and adding the plastic tube Greg.... both fin and rudder are done, but I still need to carve the tips... I will probably do it later....


Next step... wing
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: sihinch on January 16, 2015, 02:42:20 PM
Doesn't anyone work around here?  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Michael on January 16, 2015, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: sihinch on January 16, 2015, 02:42:20 PM
Doesn't anyone work around here?  ;D


I'm at the office right now, working (on finding parts for an upcoming scratch-built model).  ;D
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 16, 2015, 11:18:52 PM
Wings already started.... center piece first..... I must say.... interlocking is AWESOME!  8)


This kit is really surprising me... I really thought it would be very, very difficult to build this bird... but so far so good.... 


Despite talking to Michael and Piker about having a 3-piece wing, I've decided to do one piece.... so lets make sure this is right!



Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 18, 2015, 04:38:20 AM
And the wing construction continues... I must say, I was pretty scared with the dihedral, but it seems it was easy to build the right wing (remember, this wing is upside down)...  Still have tons of work to do...



Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Michael on January 18, 2015, 08:10:08 AM
... looks amazing!
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 18, 2015, 10:17:13 AM
Thanks Michael, not as good as yours, but I think I'm doing fine for a first timer.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: piker on January 19, 2015, 10:07:27 AM
Yes Andre!  Lookin' good.

That looks like a fun kit to build.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 23, 2015, 02:18:56 AM
Folks, Red alert!   :-\


My right wing got a bit warped, out of nowhere. I've humidified the area with a wet cloth, and used some weight to reverse the issue.... the wing looks good now, but I'm afraid that this problem might return in a near future...


I've noticed that all the wood plates containing the fuselage pieces are warped too..  check the video below (I've sent this video to hobbico)...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyt1C3hgSoo


Is this a permanent problem? is there an easy way to fix it?
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Michael on January 23, 2015, 09:53:58 AM
You can spray the warped area with Windex, and then weigh it down to twist it back to the correct shape, and let it dry.


WARNING - if you soak it and twist it (contract some areas) too much, then the balsa may deform somewhat.
This happened to one of my Albatross wings, although it only became bumpy and wavy on the bottom of one wing. The covering hid most of the problem.



Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: piker on January 23, 2015, 10:09:33 AM
I don't understand how everyone is getting warped wings.  Are you building on a flat building board/bench?  Is it because you guys are using water based glue?  Removing the wings from the board before the glue is fully cured?  Wetting the balsa to help bend then removing from the board before dry?  I don't know.

I build with CA on a fairly flat table, almost never wet the sheeting, and my wings are always straight.  At least within reason   :)
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 23, 2015, 10:28:09 AM
Yes Piker, flat surface (hard thick foam), and the Rudder, Fin, Horizontal Stab, Elev, center and right wing are absolutely perfect.


I have no idea on why this is happening!


here i what I've decided to do..  Yesterday, I've removed all the laser cut pieces from the boards and placed them over my office hardwood... woth lots of weight on top of it.


One of the things that I've used is a Wood glue to reinforce the joints on the wings.... (the one Simon had on our previous scratch build session)... do you think this might be causing the problem?


In any case, I'm not continuing any work until we meet this Monday on Colonel's Mustard.. I'll bring the wings so you guys can have a look.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Papa on January 23, 2015, 11:23:45 AM
The amount of moisture you might introduce using wood glue (aliphatic resin) is so minimal that it is unlikely to cause this kind of warping. Warping is a result of uneven contraction of one side of a piece of wood relative to the other side. It frequently results from the location of the cut in the tree. The outer side closest to the bark will shrink less than the inner side. If the wood is properly dried and stabilized before it is worked it should remain flat. Your wood may have been used before it's time.


As Micheal said reintroducing moisture and then allowing it to stabilize for a number of days under pressure should alleviate the problem. Alternatively use the warp in a counteractive manner so one warp works against another warp and neutralizes
both warps.


Jack. 
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on January 23, 2015, 11:32:13 AM
Update: Hibbico will send me new die cut parts for the fuselage  8)


I hope I can get this ASAP so I can continue building the plane.


I think the wing is really fine now, I'll keep it out of the weights until tomorrow to check if the warp returns.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on February 06, 2015, 04:47:29 PM
Okay, I finally had some time to work on the kit again, Hibbico sent me the new fuselage parts, and I was able to build the bottom section yesterday night... overall, I'm quite happy with the results...  according the manual, I should cover this section now before building the upper section.




Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on February 10, 2015, 12:45:33 AM
Lower fuselage is covered, I gotta say, this thing hurts... I broke at least 3balsa sheets trying to bend them....
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Michael on February 10, 2015, 06:44:18 AM
It really looks good.


Did you wet the balsa sheets, at least on the outside, before bending them?


That usually helps.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: wollins on February 10, 2015, 07:56:45 AM
Awesome Andre!
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on February 10, 2015, 11:06:42 AM
Yes, I wet the sheets, but it seems it wasn't enough. I hard a real hard time to sheet the curves, I could not align the pieces at all due to the curves. I gotta get some advices from you guys on how to improve this technique....
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on February 10, 2015, 12:44:03 PM
Guys, question about patching and sanding...

1 which patch /gap filler do you guys use?
2 do usually pre-sand the wood before patching?
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: battlestu on February 10, 2015, 01:04:00 PM
I use polly filler light and yes i do a bit of sanding before patching. I don't think it matters since you'll need to sand afterwards.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Papa on February 10, 2015, 02:17:26 PM
I use this product as I find it the lightest.


http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=136&SubcatID=23


I leave it overnight so it's fully dry.


I only sand down visible high spots first. You have to sand to get it to a final finish anyway.


I find I usually have to come back and do second filling job to get the spots missed the first time around.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: wollins on February 10, 2015, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: Papa on February 10, 2015, 02:17:26 PM

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=136&SubcatID=23

Yup I use that too Andre ... could never seem to find it at H/depot but I get mine at Rona.

Colin   
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: piker on February 10, 2015, 06:06:39 PM
That's looking really good, Andre.

I have used the Dap filler in areas where I need to use a lot of the stuff (like my Sandringham repair), but I'm not completely sold by it.  I find it kind of soft and a little difficult to get a nice, smooth, finish with.  For filling on balsa planes, I use Model Magic from the hobby shop.  It's expensive, but when not using much, it last a long time and I find it much better for sanding and more stable.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on February 11, 2015, 02:50:30 AM
Well, now it really looks like a plane.... As Michael said to me, now the fun begins....

I stopped by pinnacle today and Ron suggested a nice push rod set... Already installed and ready to go...
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Michael on February 11, 2015, 06:31:25 AM
Beautiful!   :)
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: electroflyer on February 11, 2015, 08:20:56 AM
   Hey Andre,
   That is shaping up real nice!
   For bending balsa sheet, a mixture of Ammonia and warm water is what I have used. Check on line to find a good ratio.
  As for filling joints, my favourite product is Le'pages latex wood filler found at Canadian Tire in the paint section. It comes in different colours and squeezes out of a tube. It goes on smooth, sands nicely and actually has some strength. As with any water based product though, it should be put on in thin coats if filling a large depression as the balsa will act like a sponge.
http://www.lepageproducts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=112

   Glenn
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Papa on February 11, 2015, 09:05:53 AM
Does this not add extra weight? I have always thought wood filler to be very heavy.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: electroflyer on February 11, 2015, 10:22:06 AM
   No, this product is very light. Plus we're usually only filling scratches and small imperfections, So weight is minimal. It is good stuff.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: electroflyer on February 11, 2015, 01:51:52 PM
   Careful using DAP, I just read the MSDS sheets. It contains Formaldehyde, Glycol and a few other not so healthy things.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on February 12, 2015, 11:32:08 PM
So a few days ago I was able to finally join all 3 wing pieces together... the results are pretty good. I must say, I think I really found something I truly enjoy.... to build one plane like this using my own hands, that's really cool...  8)


Today I've started sheeting the wing... and the results are good so far...


Now I have a question... is anyone here a wood carving expert? I gotta say, I screw up the stabilizer and rudder / fin tips... I bought new balsa blocks to build it again, but I'm really looking for some help to build these parts from scratch.





Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: Papa on February 12, 2015, 11:44:34 PM
Bring them to the build class on the 23rd.


Jack.
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: frajolex on February 13, 2015, 12:47:42 AM
Will bring!
Title: Re: Top Flite Cessna Skylane Kit build thread
Post by: piker on February 13, 2015, 04:33:18 PM
That looks great, Andre.  I'm glad you're enjoying the build.  It's a lot of fun, eh?