FlyFly Hawker Hunter

[wollins]

Well, I actually cancelled my order for that very reason. (mainly) I was reading about too many problems getting off of grass because of the combination of the weight of the plane and the size of the wheels (2" limit)  Retracts/struts had to be modified etc etc. 

As you probably know, our field is not the best in the world for rolling takeoffs with two inch wheels and smaller, especially something that weighs in between 8 and 10 pounds. Some have bungee launched it with great success but one of the attractions for me with a semi scale looking plane is the rolling takeoff so the bungee route didn't quite appeal. Maybe if/when we install a Geotex runway like has been suggested I will revisit this one. 
 
However as of now, taking everything into consideration (would also have cost me about a grand to get into the air) I decided to pass. 

Colin

[sihinch]

I started the build today and completed step one.

I must say, I'm a little disappointed with the fit of the 2 fuse halves.  Now that the front half is together, I can visibly see a difference in the horizontal alignment of approx 10 degrees, from the top of the fuse to the bottom.  I hope when the wing is fitted, it will all line up.

I thought with it being big, that the quality, alignment and finish would be excellent.  It's just a big foamy, I guess.

Plus, I got glue on the fuse so will need some Cadez paint magic to get it to show standard (how many beers, Greg?)

S

[sihinch]

Well, I finally felt well enough to approach the building table again yesterday.  But I continue to be disappointed with the quality of this kit.  One of the horizontal stabilizers was bent like a banana, and the 2 sides of the rear half of the fuse also didn't fit together properly.  So the whole build is taking way longer than it should.  There are some nice touches though, like the servo extension wire runs in the wall of the fuse, so the thrust tube is clear.

Anyway, I added lots of carbon to the tail, and re-hinged the elevators.  And have glued the tail together and added servos for the 2 elevators.  I also managed to find an exact match for the green paint, and a fairly good match for the dark grey.  Just need to mix some for the underside grey.

There was a sticky moment (quite literally) when I managed to get some glue in the thread of the blind nut that is used to attach the wing!  Anyway, half an hour of gentle persuasion and modelers tenacity and cunning managed to rectify the situation. 

Today I hope to join the 2 fuse halves together.  The 2 halves (front and back) do not look particularly big, but when I hold them together this thing is as tall as me almost!  Very difficult to see if you have everything lined up, when holding it together!!! 

[Wingnutz]

Lookingngood Simon! Have you decided on a power system yet?

[sihinch]

Hi Bill,

I'm going with the Lander DPS 90mm 5 blade fan on 6S, if the fan will fit. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17223__Alloy_DPS_Series_90mm_EDF_unit_with_1900kv_Motor_1750watt.html

How is your F-86 coming along?  I'd be really interested to know if you are you having the same issues with fit and alignment of parts? And are you planning to use a thrust tube, inside the actual body, or just use the body as the thrust tube (I was looking at some pics of Michael's Hawk today and I think it has a thrust tube sticking out the back?)

Cheers,
S

[flying saucer]

Well, I actually cancelled my order for that very reason. (mainly) I was reading about too many problems getting off of grass because of the combination of the weight of the plane and the size of the wheels (2" limit)  Retracts/struts had to be modified etc etc. 

As you probably know, our field is not the best in the world for rolling takeoffs with two inch wheels and smaller, especially something that weighs in between 8 and 10 pounds. Some have bungee launched it with great success but one of the attractions for me with a semi scale looking plane is the rolling takeoff so the bungee route didn't quite appeal. Maybe if/when we install a Geotex runway like has been suggested I will revisit this one. 
 
However as of now, taking everything into consideration (would also have cost me about a grand to get into the air) I decided to pass. 

Colin

That's too bad Colin, was looking forward to seeing this one in the air, and more high performance EDFs in general.

Just yesterday Bobby brought my attention to one for sale at a very attractive price on Rc Canada. Very tempting, I may go with a bungee launch takeoff which will save some weight and cost, but no idea what the pull limit is of the bungee system me/Ronny built, will probably need a minimum of 30lbs of pull strength for a clean takeoff! 

[sihinch]

Well, here's the fuse and it doesn't look too much like a Banana! 

[sihinch]

I just got the 90mm DPS fan out of the packet - there's no way that's fitting in my Hunter! So it's on to plan B......

However, the FlyFly fan surround does fit so nicely in the airframe, and I've read about people putting other rotors in it, so.......more research.

[sihinch]

OK, so I've narrowed down the EDF/Power system to 3 options.....

1 - Freewing 90mm EDF with 1750kV motor. Approx $80
2 - Changesun 90mm 5 blade EDF with 1850kV warhead motor. Approx $50
3 - WeMoTec Midi Fan Pro 90mm EDF with HET Typhoon 650-58 1760kV motor.  Approx $220

I have ordered all 3 (except the Typhoon motor) since I have another 90mm EDF build lined up, so I will chose 2 out of the 3 for my projects and have a spare.

[Wingnutz]

Hi Bill,

I'm going with the Lander DPS 90mm 5 blade fan on 6S, if the fan will fit. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__17223__Alloy_DPS_Series_90mm_EDF_unit_with_1900kv_Motor_1750watt.html

How is your F-86 coming along?  I'd be really interested to know if you are you having the same issues with fit and alignment of parts? And are you planning to use a thrust tube, inside the actual body, or just use the body as the thrust tube (I was looking at some pics of Michael's Hawk today and I think it has a thrust tube sticking out the back?)

Cheers,
S

Hi Simon,
F-86 is moving slowly but steadily. Fit has not been a big issue except for the vertical stab which didn't want to sit vertically. I added an operating rudder so I pretty much had to get the rudder mounted when the rear fuse halves went together. Air had a distinct blue tinge while this operation was in progress. Finish is anything but stellar as the foam EPO? is really soft and marks if you breathe on it.
I'm using HK's Lander 90mm 6S alloy unit but I chose the 12 blade version as I want the whooshy quiet sound instead of the leaf blower noise.
This choice involved a few challenges too. To drive the 12 blade 90mm fan with 6S involves a bunch of amps...and although I've been reassured by Tim Wan from Lander that I can use a 100A ESC, the draw is way too close to 100A for my comfort level so I've ordered a Castle ICE HV2 120A which almost involved taking out a mortgage on my house (they are pricey, but I like the data logging feature). Pinnacle gave me a bit of a break on the price and I'm waiting for it to arrive.
With the bullet fairing on the back, the EDF unit wouldn't go in the fuse without hogging out one edge of the EDF cavity but it's coming slowly.
My model does have a thrust tube but there's no taper that I can see and I didn't check to see if the exhaust end was 90% ish of the FSA.
The FlyFly F-86 has a reputation for folding wings even though it was never meant to be a carrier aircraft. Unfortunately the folding operation is likely to occur in flight (Michael Rogozinsky's original FlyFly F-86 suffered this fate) with usually disastrous results. The cure (well documented on the RCGroups thread on this model) is to add carbon tube spar(s) and/or carbon slab spars in the wing to strengthen the molded foam spars (foam spars on a model this size and weight?)
Done..just waiting to be glued in.
The nose gear has presented some challenges too. I'm using e-Flite 25-46 retracts which meant designing and building a mount for the nose retract. The one I ended up with is 1/4" ply and the mount will be permanently glued into the model. The mount has to integrate with the whale bone shaped ribs inside the nose so that took a few evenings. Like Colin I'm a bit leary of landing and taking off at ROGO with a larger heavier EDF (GEOTEX to the rescue?) so I'm going to follow Tom Muir's and Ronnie's lead and try hand launching until a smoother runway is available.
The last challenges which pop into my mind are purely cosmetic but they BOTHER me.
1. The framing molded into the canopy (I have the FlyFly and a Park Flyer Plastics canopy) is simply wrong and does not capture the character of the real aircraft. All the Sabres I've seen or Googled have a canopy arch frame that meets the cockpit edge at 90deg. Both molded model canopies are about 70deg and every time I look at it I cringe. Have attempted a remedy but not sure it's an improvement.
2. The molded nose cones from FlyFly and PFP both look like they'd be happier on a large mouthed bass and miss the character of the real Sabre, especially the Canadair versions which I'm trying to model. I know EDF models have to make concessions from scale to get enough air flow but the FlyFly F-86 already has a huge cheater hole through the nose gear cavity and I'd like to do better on scale appearance. There's a guy in California who molds glass nose cones for this model and I think I'll see if he'll do one for me.
I really didn't mean to sound negative about this model...I've learned a lot from building it (Maiden time will tell if I've learned enough) and I've had fun...really!
I've still got the challenge of applying the large Golden Hawk graphics which Callie did for me and trying to get them on straight. I think I'll have a beer or two AFTER I get those on. Target date is TEMAC Jets Fun Fly.
I'll try to get some pictures together and post on a separate thread.

[Bobmic]

Hi Simon,
I thought the 12 blade HK 90mm EDF is designed for a higher cell count (on their site they mentioned 8-10s are you using a different motor,
100Amp is quite a lot you can not go to a higher number of cells and reduce the current?

[sihinch]

Not using 12 blades Bobby.  All the fans I listed are either 5 or 6 blades:

Freewing http://rc-castle.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=492
Changesun http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11261__High_Torque_EDF_Ducted_Fan_Unit_5Blade_90mm_1600W.html
WemoTec http://www.espritmodel.com/edf-wemotec-midi-pro-fan.aspx

[Bobmic]

Sorry for confusing between you and Bill, was reading the progress on my phone....too small for a long thread.
But to your point the panther was flying with a smaller diameter fan but somewhat similar spec to what you are looking at. Even though the day I was flying it was not warm and it seems like EDF's are not performing well in the cold still the Panther is significantly smaller, are you sure the setup you are looking for will be enough?
-This is the unit I was using with a 6s nanotech 25-50C 4000mAh:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__27559__Alloy_DPS_Series_70mm_10_Blade_EDF_unit_with_2200kv_Motor_1900watt_6s_.html

The real spec is around the 1500w+ and 2kg thrust (in the plane), I'd did reach over 1700Wbut With higher trimming and did not notice significant increase in thrust.

[sihinch]

Yes, it will be enough. It was originally meant for 5S and Michael flies one of the above power systems in his Hawk. Plus, other references (like RCGroups) say it's enough. Check out what they say here:

http://www.jepejets.com/jepeshop/hawker-hunter/548-jepe-fast-foam-bae-power-hawk.html

Although I want "spirited" performance, I am happy to keep it somewhat 'scale.'

[flying saucer]

Not using 12 blades Bobby.  All the fans I listed are either 5 or 6 blades:

Freewing http://rc-castle.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=492
Changesun http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11261__High_Torque_EDF_Ducted_Fan_Unit_5Blade_90mm_1600W.html
WemoTec http://www.espritmodel.com/edf-wemotec-midi-pro-fan.aspx

The wemotec has a lot of potential, especially when paired with the right motor (and balanced).

As far as the freewing, I thought it looked familiar.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14788__90mm_EDF_unit_with_3553_1750kv_Motor_1500watt.html

I believe this is same unit from the King. Reviews seem good on it as well.